buy macgregor or not?

Ken Cross · Mar 10, 2012

first off more info neded

Every boat is a series of compromises. What model of McGregor? If you're after speed under engine power your choices are rather limited. If you're talking about under sail primarily it's a totally different question.
Many people will talk down a MaGregor, but if you use it for what it was intended They can be great. For 9 years we trailer sailed a 1987 D model McGregor classic. That's a water ballasted Daggerboard model. It just didn't have enough space for our style of cruising, but under sail it outran most boats of similar size. It was light weight and easy to tow for a 26 foot boat and pretty forgiving of my stupid mistakes while learning to sail. When I say light weight, the tradeoffs are also a factor. The rig is a bit more difficult to tune but the simple design also means less maintenance issues.

The modern McGregors (by that I mean the current model M or the previous model X which can carry big outboards) do seem to have improved headroom (the biggest problem with our old Mac) and nicer interior layouts. Also look online at mods people have done. Lots of Mac owners put lots of their own style into them. Just don't let those who have never actually owned one sway you. Talk to owners of the model you are looking at.
There is a good reason their production rate is so high.

Bill1565 · Mar 10, 2012

niti said:
My husband and I have seriously been considering buying a MacGregor...however, we are getting a lot of different feedback on whether this is a good thing or not. One seller has told us it's not fun on Lake Michigan since it can't handle anything but calm waters since it doesn't have a keel.

Looking for all thoughts and facts that can help us make a decision on buying a MacGregor or if we should look at other boats.

Our first boat was a 70's MacGregor Venture 24. we raced it up, down and across lake Michigan for years. Nothing broke.

Don't think of this as a marriage, think of it as the first in a series of boats. It's cheap, lots of Mac's out there to choose from, ready market when you go to sell.

Nodak7 · Mar 10, 2012

niti said:
My husband and I have seriously been considering buying a MacGregor...however, we are getting a lot of different feedback on whether this is a good thing or not. One seller has told us it's not fun on Lake Michigan since it can't handle anything but calm waters since it doesn't have a keel.

Looking for all thoughts and facts that can help us make a decision on buying a MacGregor or if we should look at other boats.

Niti, as a previous owner of a 26M I can say that there were things that I liked and disliked about the boat. First, it is a great starter sailboat and you will find that many people in this forum had a Mac as their first boat. Having said that it should tell you something. They are good if you want to see if you are into sailing or not. Relatively minimal investment and you still get a "real" sail boat. So that being said from experience I found the boat did everything that we expected it to do. It sailed relatively well and we felt comfortable and safe in the cockpit. It also handled good under power and we could scoot back home if the weather looked unfavorable. One additional thing was its portability. If you want to visit more than one lake it was great and trailered very nicely. So that is all the good things from our experience.

What we also found was after having owned the Mac we knew what we wanted when we stepped up to a larger boat. It took us one year to realize we loved the sport and wanted a boat with bigger and better accommodations. Not to say anything about better handling under sail. You do not mention how old you are but at my more advanced age I found that I really did not like going up on deck to raise and lower the main. Especially since the boat has a tendency to rock back and forth. Thus all ours boats since have had furling mains. I also found that sleeping on the boat was not particularly comfortable since it only had a padded bunk. We both decided that a "real" bed would be nice. The admiral found that the minimal galley on the Mac worked but not for extended periods.

All these were lessons we learned but as is mentioned in the previous post it is what it is. Depending on what you want it can either be your dream boat or your "starter" boat. Best of luck to you! BTW I think for the money it is a good boat and we would have done it again. It taught us a lot and was easy to sell when we were ready to move up.

Ken Cross · Mar 10, 2012

I should have added the older boats all had painted steel trailers. They were lousy for salt water. The newer ones should be much improved.

eliems · Mar 10, 2012

i thInk people are saying if you buy one, expect to want out of it after a year!

My wife and I came within a moment of buying a 2007 M and then we realized that taking an hour to put up the mast and another to take it down would be non-starter so we bailed. (and lost a 500 dollar deposit).

We bought our Hunter and are thrilled with it. Next slip over is a Mac M and we are
So glad it does not belong to us!!!

They are unstable with the water ballast. Slow (whether by sail or motoring standards). Our friend say they are very afraid of weather events.

The interior can not compare to even a H28.

The reputation of the MacGregor is so bad we were going to name ours "Leper of the Sea". People at our Power Squadron warned us not to buy one.

My advice is ... Run away fast as you can.

Sumner · Mar 10, 2012

eliems said:
i thInk people are saying if you buy one, expect to want out of it after a year!..

Obviously not true as there are hundreds of satisfied owners that have owned their boats for years. Some even from the 70's. In our case we will have our Mac I'm sure much longer than we own the Endeavour.

Glad you love your Hunter. I'm sure it is a great boat, but not really an apples to apples comparison with a Mac or even a smaller Hunter.

I do appreciate all of the good/fair advice that has been given on this thread,

Sum

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

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reworb · Mar 10, 2012

My wife and I had a 26X as our first sailboat, we now have a Beneteau 311 after also having a Catalina 28. I think we need to know more before you can get a good answer. Things like have you sailed before, what model Mac are you looking at, what do you expect out of a boat, how do you plan to use it.

We used our Mac exclusively in the Pacific; not as choppy as Lake Michigan but much bigger waves and enjoyed it. The 26x was a great intro into the boating world, was it as good of a boat or sail as well as the Catalina or the Beneteau, short answer no. But it cost about one third as much. If you don't know if you will like sailing or boating then the Mac is a relatively cheap way to find out.

Steve Dion · Mar 10, 2012

eliems said:
My wife and I came within a moment of buying a 2007 M and then we realized that taking an hour to put up the mast and another to take it down would be non-starter so we bailed. (and lost a 500 dollar deposit).

I always thought the same thing about a trailable boat. While it is very kewl to be able to haul it to places that you could never sail or to drive to places that may take days or weeks to get there, you do have more options.

The issues with putting the mast up/down and additional breakage of hardware I thought we would never use this type of a boat. Then there is the issue with having a tow vehicle that is appropriate for towing & launching is something that needs to be added to the purchase of a trailable.

Now there is also the fact that there are thousands of owners of Ventures & Macgregors that are perfectly happy with what they can do with them.

MrUnix · Mar 10, 2012

Our first sailboat was a Venture 17.. loved that boat and it took a LOT of abuse from us and just kept cruising. Due to it's size, it was a breeze to trailer, launch and retrieve, and we used it almost every weekend for both day sails and long weekends. Later, when we had our first child, we bought a 21, and soon after a 22 foot Mac for additional room and loved both of them as well. About the time we were ready for something a bit bigger, we looked at the 'new' water ballasted Mac. I was very much disappointed in the build quality, which was nothing compared to the older swing keel models we had been used to. It just looked and felt like a cheap boat, and at under $10K for a brand new one with all the goodies from the factory, I could see why. I'm sure there has been some improvements over the years, and don't want to ruffle the feathers of Mac owners, but I was very put off by that experience and have not considered one of the newer Macs since then. Like others have said, it depends on the year/model you are considering and what you are going to use the boat for. A little more info will get a better response for the specific boat you are considering.

Cheers,
Brad

Sumner · Mar 10, 2012

Steve Dion said:
....The issues with putting the mast up/down and additional breakage of hardware I thought we would never use this type of a boat. Then there is the issue with having a tow vehicle that is appropriate for towing & launching is something that needs to be added to the purchase of a trailable.....

Good points. One nice thing about the Macs is that all of the rigging except for the forestay stays attached to the chain plates and the mast so you put the mast up and adjust the forestay after it is pinned. If you buy a Johnson lever you just raise the mast, pin the forestay and flip the lever over and pin it and the rigging is all tensioned just like it was the last time. Can't get any easier than that. We use the...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html

.... gin pole, block and tackle and the winch and can have the mast up in 10 minutes or less and that includes attaching the gin pole and lines for it. Ruth can even crank it up with the winch and you can stop at any point if you need to. It is one of the easiest boats out there to get from the parking lot to the water. A lot of the guys just push the mast up by hand. I did it a couple times, but at 68 don't feel comfortable doing it at this point in my life.

Lots of owners report that they are on the water within 45 minutes total of getting to the ramp. You can also load the boat at home which can be convenient.

Ruth and I take longer trips and load...

.... a lot of gear and plan a day to get on the water. At the end of the trip we will spend a couple hours getting ready to go ...

...back home. If you day sail you can be on the water in under an hour and if you leave the boat in a mast-up yard in a matter of minutes and of course a number of owners slip the boat for the summer. You have choices and most of these apply to any trailered boat, not just Macs.

You are absolutely right about the tow vehicle. If you only travel a few miles from home to the ramp you have lots of choices, but if you travel long distances on trips you will need something that will tow safely. We bought a '99 Suburban a couple years ago for less than $4000 with under 150,000 miles on it and they will usually go over 250,000 miles on the original engine/trans. It has worked well for us and we mainly use it with the Mac, but will tow a smaller trailer with the projects that we have completed for the Endeavour. It didn't cost a fortune and works well for. Without a trailer or with a small one gets 17 mpg, so not terrible gas mileage.

A person just has to pick the best options for them. BTW he also posted this in the Mac Forum and there I told him that if his goal was to just sail the Great Lakes out of one marina then I'd forget the Mac and go with a larger boat with more displacement. It sounds though like he would like the option of exploring different parts of the country with a boat though,

Sum

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

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efhughes3 · Mar 10, 2012

I too had a M26 in the latter 80's. Sure, it isn't made for heavy breeze or seas, but I sailed mine on Lakes Pleasant and Rooseveldt in AZ a lot, and trailered it down to San Carlos, Mexico for a week once. They are more comfortable than sleeping in a tent while camping on the land, and a lot of people do that for recreation. Sailing isn't especially dynamic, but you get an easy boat to learn on.

After about 2 or 3 years, I did want to get a bigger boat, but I'd moved to San Diego and was sailing a lot more-all on the ocean.

Joe · Mar 11, 2012

First.....I've never owned a MacGregor sailboat. I have rented Venture 17's for daysailing years ago.

I would never, ever consider owning a Mac 26M or X. I would, however, have no problem purchasing the older, D and S models. These older models, like sumner and ruth's 26s, have stood the test of time as excellent trailer sailors. (If you are lucky enough to find one as tricked out as Sum's... snap it up, pronto)

The M and X models are a completely different story. I was invited out on one a few years back..... the wind was about 10kts.... I was very uncomfortable, I couldn't wait to get off! (and I've been sailing 30plus years) Yes, there's lots of room inside, but that's it. The rigging is so lightweight, and the freeboard so high... oops.. I'll stop here, because most everyone has heard me rant on these boats.

If you're looking to get into sailing there are many, many adequate starter boats that are easy to trailer and maintain, and sail like a dream. The aforementioned 26s and d are good, so is the Cat22 and 25, the Hunters, ....

When newbies look at sailboats for the first time, they usually focus on a boat's interior and how shiny it is...... but if you're serious about giving sailing a try, do lots of research on what makes a good, starting sailboat. Learn to recognize the true condition, not just what's on the surface. Do not be prejudiced against a tiller steered sailboat.... a wheel is impractical on any boat under 30 ft.

Once you get educated, you'll learn that a boat's age isn't as important as its condition... so get cracking.

Scott T-Bird · Mar 11, 2012

Niti, look at MacGregor's with your eyes wide open ...

First of all, the newer MacGregors (if that is what you are looking at) are designed to give you the most space for a trailerable sailboat. It looks like you are from Chicago and if you intend to keep your boat on Lake Michigan in Chicago, I can't imagine why you would want a sailboat that is designed principally around trailering. You should keep in mind that everything about the boat is designed to keep the boat cheap, yet provide the most space on a trailerable sailboat. That means that basically everything related to sailing performance and safety is sacrificed. (Yes, they make a big deal about positive flotation - which should be the first thing that tells you that the boat is designed to capsize).

Light weight, water ballast and the lack of a ballasted keel is a big negative on Lake Michigan, I think. Everything about the boat is designed to eliminate weight ... that means that spars and rigging are minimally designed to handle stress. Do you want light weight rigging when the winds and waves build on Lake Michigan? I would think not. The light weight of rigging and spars is designed to make it easier to assemble and de-assemble the boat when trailering. It's not designed for robust performance when the weather turns bad, nor is it designed to maximize sailing performance. Anybody who claims that you can minimize the rigging components (think cost reduction) and not sacrifice sailing performance and safety would also sell you the Brooklyn Bridge if you were gullible enough to believe them.

The other principal design considerations on MacGregor sailboats are maximize space and minimize cost. Do you think that is possible without compromise? I don't think so. Look closely at the owner's manual to see where the compromises are. First of all, the published carrying capacity of a MacGegor 26 (the newer ones) is just 960 pounds or 6 people. The weight limitation is supposed to be a combined load of people and gear. Exceeding the capacity is a safety issue because the boat can and will capsize if this limitation is abused. Safety literature published by MacGregor (in the fine print) also places a restriction on where people are allowed to sit for safe operation. People are required to sit in the cockpit or the cabin, but not on the decks or coach roof. They feature a man standing on the side-deck pulling on the rigging to simulate stability in their promotional materials, yet they say in the fine print that stability of the boat is compromised if people are located anywhere on the boat except in the cockpit or cabin. This is not exactly truth in advertising in my opinion.

By why of comparison, a similar sized sailboat with a ballasted keel should be stable for approximately 2,500 pounds capacity based on published rule of thumb and there wouldn't be any published limitation on where people are required to be positioned on the boat for stability.

The high-freeboard may provide the illusion of stability, but the additional windage both increases instability and diminishes sailing performance. The performance compromise is a choice that MacGregor owners make in order to maximize space and minimize cost. Sailing performance may not seem like a very important issue to you until you are facing higher winds and building waves. Of course the argument that the high speed motor will get you to safety faster is appealing, except when you consider how poorly an outboard engine performs on a light-weight boat, with high windage, in rough conditions.

Call me biased, but I would never consider a MacGregor 26 M or X for sailing on the Great Lakes. Light weight, minimal rigging strength, and all the compromises that are made to increase space and reduce costs would not give me any confidence when sailing a small boat on Lake Michigan.

Sam Salter · Mar 11, 2012

I work part time for a Macgregor dealer.
Macgregor builds a boat a day - 400 a year - and that's in a recession!
Most Macgregor owners on our lake move up to a newer Macgregor.
When I go sailing on our lake, most of the boats out ( the ones being sailed, as opposed to the ones rotting on their trailers) are Macgregors.
Everywhere I go - and I sail all over the world - I see Macgregors.
I don't own a Macgregor - I sail a C&C.

I wouldn't sail one across the Atlantic (but I wouldn't sail a Hunter or a Catalina across it either).
Go out for a sail in one. Talk to other Macregor owners; if you tell them you're thinking of buying one they'll take you out. Make your own mind up. Most of these guys have never sailed one!

sam

Capt. Kermie · Mar 11, 2012

There are far more power boats designed principally around light weight and trailering ability than there are sailboats. Does this mean that all trailerable powerboats sacrifice safety and performance? I doubt it! They simply satisfy a niche market same as the MacGregor. All boats, power or sail, big or small will capsize in given conditions, no boat is invinceable to mother nature. Big keel boats are de-masted regularly when the weather gets rough.
I sail a MacGregor in the Pacific Northwest where mother nature throws tantrums on a regular basis, you think those big keel boats go out there in those tantrums, no they don't, they all cower in their slips like cowards, so do I, no one is stupid enough to go out in those conditions. Most folks are basic fair weather sailors and the MacGregor performs just as well as any other boat in fair weather. Very few venture out when conditions do not warrant it, so even if you do buy a big boat it is unlikely you will challenge Mother Nature in her fury.
The MacGregor is simply an every mans affordable sailboat and you will not be tied to slip costs year around unless you choose to be.

higgs · Mar 11, 2012

I'll catch hell for this

I have extensively cruised the Great Lakes for 40 years, mostly Lake Michigan. If you plan to only day sail on nice days and then go home the McGregor could fit the bill. If you are looking to cruise or race don't even consider it. These boats are lightly built and if the weather stays reasonably good you will be fine. It is distressing to get caught out in the middle of the lake in a strong T storm - and if you do any serious cruising out there it is going to happen. The McGregor will probably make it through, but the key word is "probably".

Pulling into port one of the great pleasures is discussing your boat with other skippers. If you don't mind knowing the other guy is bsing you when he compliments your McGregor, i guess you will be OK. The boats are not respected among the vast majority of Great Lakes sailors, and for good reason. They are not built to handle the Great Lakes.

Steve Dion · Mar 11, 2012

OMG!

These folks are not asking about taking a Mac across the ocean.

There may be a lot more Mac's that have been sold vs all the other production boats, but I doubt that the number that have cross the oceans would even begin to compare with any of the other productions boats (Cat, Bene, Hunter Jean-o etc).

The points that most have made are valid points and the potential buyers should be aware of the build quality of these vessels. We have heard about recent Mac's that have been overloaded and passengers have died. Most boats of this size would not have capsized in bay waters, so this is a concern.

larizon · Mar 11, 2012

I have a mack 25 and think its a great boat for the price, I sail regularly to the channel islands and have gotten stuck in some nasty weather and my mack has never failed me and I love being able to put in whenever I want and keep it in the back yard!. Its all in what you want. Comparing a mac to a hunter is truly apples and oranges give me a break! I love my trailer sailor! : )

Scott T-Bird · Mar 12, 2012

I have no problem with people liking the boat. Let's just acknowledge that they are built cheap so more people can afford a new boat and they are built light to make them easier to trailer. There are no costly, high tech materials to make them light and strong for sailing performance, just thinner fiberglass, smaller spars and lighter rigging.

Nobody says that they need to be built to cross an ocean. But Lake Michigan can be a very dangerous body of water and capsizing into cold water (upper 60's in the summer?) is not a risk to take lightly. MacGregor advertises that the flotation that they build into the hull is a safety feature. I don't think so.

Besides that, anybody who lives in Chicago knows that trailer sailing is virtually non-existent. I wonder if any of the City marinas even have ramps? I've never seen anybody towing a sailboat thru the city streets of Chicago. It simply makes no sense to own a trailer sailer in Chicago if your primary destination is Lake Michigan. It's no different along the north shore suburbs either. There are very few ramps for trailer sailers and highly restrictive use is the norm. I don't think there is much opportunity for anybody who sails from a trailer on Lake Michigan in the entire Chicago area, so it really doesn't make any sense to own a boat that is designed principally for trailering. Somebody correct me if I am wrong!

I suppose it might make sense if their destinations are small lakes well outside the city, but why would anybody want to do that when it is so much more convenient and logical to own a boat to use at the lakeshore marinas in Chicago (if the poster is a Chicago resident). The poster hasn't really described their situation.

It makes me wonder, are there any Mac owners in Chicago? If there were, we don't hear from them.

I did notice that one "Seller" told them that the boat isn't made for Lake Michigan ... sounds like an honest Seller!!! Doesn't that statement speak volumes?!?!