Broke the rudder on our 222 O'Day

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Chuck R

My brother and I were on a broad reach after a good start on our Wed evening race last night. We had 15-17 mph winds and gusts to to 22. Full main sail and half the genoa unfurled. Just as we let out the rest of the genoa, we looked at our speed of 7,7 mph GPS and then "bam" the rudder broke right at the headpiece. Rudder then laid across the width of the transom. Boat went to windward but then wavered back and forth as we furled the genoa and we were able to get the motor started and steer with the outboard and get the main sail down.. Scary to say the least.

I have read where a number of O's have had broken rudders. I see there is the (Ida Sailor Rudder with the tilt up blade. Has anyone experienced these? And then the is the PHRF question too. Rudy sells just the rudder blade, but are they improved? The broken one is a foam filled model. Any ideas?
 
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appleman

We just put an Ida Sailor rudder on our 26. We bought it through this website.

The spider cracks on our old one were spreading quickly and we decided it would not get us to the rOnDAYvous and back. When I called Rudy and described what was happening, he told us to replace it as soon as possible. He does have replacement rudder and as far as I know they are solid, not foam filled. We went with Ida Sailor for the flip up feature. It works slick, and we can then get the tiller out of the way by tipping it up and bungee it to the stern pulpit when we are at the dock or anchored. As far as PHRF, I don't race, so I don't know.
 
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Joe

Foam filled rudder blades

Foam filled rudder blades? They can keep them! I went through two of them before I bought a solid blade off Rudy. It's a case of been there and done that, for me. I came close to losing my boat while going through a draw bridge because of a foam filled rudder blade. Did some damage to my boat that day, too. The dumbest thing O'Day ever did was build their rudders that way, and from what I understand, they built them the same way for their larger boats. I bet you could build a rudder blade out of plywood and fiberglass that would be 10 times better than the one you had on there, Chuck. Use the old blade as a pattern for dimensions and thicknesses. Welcome to the club Chuck! Let me know how you make out, and if you need anything, don't hesitate to email me.
Regards,
Joe
 
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peterbud

RUDDER

Chuck, i broke my rudder on my 222 last year so I know the feeling. I looked at the Ida sailor rudder and was going to go that way but their was a wait. I end getting a solid one from rudy at D & R. I dont know if one performs better than the othe but I have had no complaints. Also my rudder does pivot up like the original one.
 
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paul gavigan

broken rudder

i also broke my rudder on 75 oday 22 while at anchor, let me know how you make out and where you got the best deal thanx paul
 
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Chuck R

Decided on the D & R Rudder blade

Here is what I've decided,

I called Rudy at D & R Marine. He has assured me that the new rudder will be made stronger as the foam core seems to be the weakness in the factory rudder. Rudder blades are made to order as they seem to be a little different depending on year of the boat.." GETAWAY " was made at Santa Ana Calf in 1986. Rudy ask me to send the the top broken part that sandwiches the two aluminium plates as this is where the differences lay. So I boxed up at the UPS store and sent it. He said that he will used the old top for a pattern and tilt hole and the new one will be thicker fiberglass with a wood core. Much stronger and don't have to worry about the PHRF rating. and the rudder will still be original type for the 222 O'Day. Seems pricey at $540 but the what isn't these days. The IdaRudder looks neat and I felt good with the original rudder too. So I decided to stick with what I know works. We are not serious racers but do it for fun and to hone our skills.

As usual there are some good stories told here on broken rudders.

Thanks for your comments.
 
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Joe

Good move, Chuck.

I can't speak for Ida Rudder because I know nothing of them, but I've had my solid rudder blade for years now and knock on wood, it's never let me down. Of course, they're more expensive now than back then, but you're buying peace of mind. One terrible experience with a broken rudder blade that almost cost me my boat, is enough for me. I could have gotten killed that day, too. You'll be back in business in no time at all Chuck. When I bought my new solid rudder blade off Rudy back then, I drilled 1/4" about 12" down from the pivot hole on the trailing edge of my rudder for a rudder hold-up pendant line. I mounted a brass fail lead on the top edge of my rudder head, and installed a self rescue clam cleat on top of my tiller. This allows me to hold my rudder blade in the up position. I can also launch my boat with the rudder on, and the blade tipped up.
Joe
 
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Kevin

Idasailor rudder

I have a kick up rudder from Idasailor on order for my O'day 23. They were thorough when I called them last Friday to order.

I had to get some measurements off the boat to ensure a proper fit. I had to go down to the boat Tuesday morning and get the measurements (60 minute drive) and take a little paddle boat out to the moored boat.

Of course the wind is blowing 15 knots or more and I am trying to hang onto the transom of the boat with one hand and measure with the other. Any other day I've been there to actually sail, the wind was calm!

I sent the measurements and they actually called me when one of the measurements was a little "off" from the usual O'day 23 stock measurements...We fixed them and the rudder will ship early next week. So...they definitely do their homework.

It was over $900 with shipping. So my 6 year old will have to go without books his first semester in college in 12 years. :)

Kevin
 
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Chuck R

Kevin,

The 222 Idarudder would have been about the same price. I e-mailed them and they got right back to me saying their aim is to be able to ship their rudder so that when you receive it you should be able to put it right into the gudgeons and go sailing. I was impressed with their response.

I like keeping things original when ever I can, and the O'Day rudder was fine when it was intact,,, Hee He. There is a 25 O that races with us who broke his rudder last year. He ordered from Rudy got it, went to the boat, installed without a hitch, and sailed to one of the Lake Erie islands (20 miles) for the weekend. He said the new one was made heavier and stronger. The testimonies on the forum here helped me decide what to do too

Keep us posted when you get the Idarudder as it looks interesting.. I never used the tip up feature of the O'Day model as when it was tipped up it stuck out into the channel at my dock and I was always afraid a boat would hit it. I like how the Idarudder does the 180 degree tip up
 
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David S

TO Chuck and Joe

Hi guys,
After hearing all the flab about foam filled rudders, I am going to keep a long oar aboard to steer by, just kidding. My rudder is showing a few blisters and is that a sign it is a foam filled or not? In the past I have seen a picture of a flip up rudder, maybe it is in D & R Marine website or maybe someone knows another place to see a pic.
Chuck, while in the Keys I was motoring from the ramp about a mile to my dock space and my boats keel got hung on a corral head, but luckily my rudder wasn't broken, I probably could have made new one out of plywd as I had all my carpenter tools in the truck with me.
Joe, good idea to build a flip up rudder and save a few hundred bucks. I might enjoy email contact you or any else if I could have your addreeses. Read my post replies to ODayGirl submitted yesterday and/or today.

David S Happy Sailing All
 
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Joe

Foam filled rudder blade

David,
Usually, you'll see some hair line cracks in the upper bout of the rudder blade. You can tell if your blade is foam filled by the seam in the center of of the upper edge of the blade. When they manufactured these blades, they molded out two halves, glued them together and pumped them with foam. You need to be very careful while sailing and make sure that the blade is all the way down, by giving the pendant line a pull. If the blade creeps up an inch, a lot of weather helm will cause the blade to flex and the seam can open up and eventually break the blade. Eventually, all these foam filled blades are going to break. Rudy told me that the thinking back then was; "if the rudder came off the transom it would sink to the bottom, so they wanted to add some flotation to it." He told me that the spade rudders on their larger boats were made like that too. I love their boats, but sometimes I wonder if their thinking wasn't a little flawed when they came up with foam filled rudder blades and cast iron keels on early model O'Day 23s. Dave, I'm not sure about blisters but I'm certain about cracks and any indication that the seam is opening up. In the O'Day Owner's Manual that I have, they tell you not to paint the blade black, and don't keep it in the trunk of your car in the hot summer months or the foam will melt. If you have the skill and material to build a blade, I would go for it. Anything, even a wood blade is better than what you have now. The Mariner rudder blades were built of wood, so I'm told. My email address is; sailtrinkka1986@verizon.net. Feel free to email if you have any questions.
Joe
 
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Ray T

rudder blades

Chuck, Most rudder blades have a steel framework inside covered with foam and then fiberglass. The problem was the steel wasnt stainless but mild steel. I guess the builders thought that the rudder would remain watertight, wrong! I have seen and heard of more than one boat loseing thier rudders. One of the problems with rudders in cold weather and have had water infiltration is that they can freeze and crack. I have seen people drill a small hole in the bottom of the rudder for drainage in the winter and plug it in the spling before launch. Did I ever do this? Nah I took my chances with most everybody else. Ray T
 
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Chuck R

Ahoy Ray

Ray,

Plan to ask Rudy if there is a sealer that I can put over the fiberglass to block water intrusion?

But you are right on with the water intrusion and I had seen this after I purchased the 222. I layed the blade near my furnace over the first winter to dry it our. In the spring I used an epoxy resin to coat the outside hoping to keep out the water. When I removed the rudder from the boat in the fall I found that water had in fact swelled the blade to the point it would not pivot when releasing the tilt ( pivot pendant ). Had to release the bolts that sandwich the aluminium head holding the blade in place. Up here in Ohio I have seen below freezing weather for a month or more so no matter the improvements in the new blade I will keep the rudder inside and out of the weather. Especially knowing the new core is gonna be wood.

I can't understand what weakness would have occurred by moisture in the foam core since the foam would not have rotted... ?? Maybe just the fact that the foam cells expanded ( puffed effect ).

Hard to see in my pix, but the break occurred at the bottom of the rudder head where the blade starts to tapper on the aft edge, and where the pivot pendant attaches the blade on the front edge..

I learned of the weak chain plates on this forum and have re-done those so now I'm past those two items, and hopefully we are finished. So now maintenous should be same as on any sailboat.
 
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Ray T

Broken Rudder

Chuck, What I was refering to about a mild steel frame inside the rudder is that it will rust and break. It would be welded to the rudder post. Giving it a little more thought I realized you dont have a rudderpost so you dont need a frame. Ray T
 
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ruidh

Now I'm Worried About My Rudder

My O23 has a rudder just as described -- seam along the top edge, horizontal seam below the pintles. I even have a bit of a crack opening up on the port side. I should have taken a picture of it while I was out yesterday.
 
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Chuck R

My thoughts for a "kick-up rudder"

"
Why a kick up rudder? I have a solid rudder now and don't see a reason for a non-solid one."


222 O'Days are trailer sailers. Being able to launch and retrieve at the angles on the various ramps allows rudder clearance by tilting up and out of the way. The one piece solid rudder you'd want to remove from it's dudgeon's on a shallow ramp or even some steep ramps.

Then when navigating the shallows the rudder can be tilted to match the shoal draft of the keel.

Although I have not hit anything with the rudder in the 4 years I've owned "GETAWAY" she has had three previous owners that I know of, so it is an open question. I have found a special jam cleat that releases when the tilt pendant line is jerked as when the rudder would hit an object underwater thus saving hopefully damages from an impact.

After the fact is always easy, and so the question is Would I replace the rudder ahead of time?? probably not. Now that it has broken and at the worst time ( 22 mph winds on Lake Erie fetching three to four white capped waves ) Having no control over a wild boat with a rampant swinging boom and the sounds of whipping sails as if they are going to be ripped off the boat. Having had this experience would I replace ahead of time / recommend someone else to replace? You betcha !!

So if you have any doubt on your foam filled rudder - REPLACE IT - as I would not wish my experience onto anyone.
 
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LordNelson

how do you know if your rudder is foam filled?

i have an oday 20 with solid rudder. how do i know if it's foam filled or should i just assume it is?
 
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Chuck R

foam filled?

This is certainly a good place to ask. Let's see what response you get. The foam filled are much lighter than a wood one. But then How do you compare? Maybe drill a small hole and look what the drill bit bring up. This is how you check for rot in the core too. White drill pieces is foam, tan=wood, mushey brown to black = rot wood.
 
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ruidh

O23 Rudder

"222 O'Days are trailer sailers. Being able to launch and retrieve at the angles on the various ramps allows rudder clearance by tilting up and out of the way. The one piece solid rudder you'd want to remove from it's gudgeon's on a shallow ramp or even some steep ramps."

OK. I don't/can't trailer my 23, so that's not an issue.

"Then when navigating the shallows the rudder can be tilted to match the shoal draft of the keel."

Ummm. My rudder doesn't stick down below the centerboard in the upmost position.
 
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Dave

Also check the hood

Chuck,

I'm glad everything ended with no serious injuries. For those concerned about the rudder, the other thing to check is the hood. When getting ready for the season this year, I noticed some stress cracks on the aluminum hood. Rudy had the replacement hoods in stock, but the pintles were back-ordered for a few weeks. So with the help of a friend (with lots of great tools and also engineering skills that I don't possess), I reinforced the hood with aluminum strips and pop-rivets along the forward edge of the hood. It has worked fine thus far, but now I'm thinking that I should consider replacing the rudder since I do have the foam cored version. I doubt that it would typically fail in nice calm conditions where getting the boat under control would be easy. Chuck's situation is probably the more likely scenario. Since I sail on Lake Michigan a few times a year, it's probably better to upgrade to the wood-cored version. I would also consider the Idasailor version, but it is a bit more pricey than the $540 rudder from Rudy. And I know that when I get something from D&R, it will fit perfectly. Anyhow, something else to think about.

Dave
O'Day 222
 
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