My 1984 Hunter 30 has Inerlux Micron CSC for a bottom paint, and I need to repaint this year. Can anyone give me an Idea of how much I will need. I've used VC-17 on all my boats in the past and am not familiar with the Micron CSC.
Bottom paint
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Paint
Makingthyme- You will need to buy three quarts. A gallon will cost you the same. I know of an equvalant brand and type to CSC that is on sale, but I know you wont buy that brand from that company. Rob Hessenius
Makingthyme- You will need to buy three quarts. A gallon will cost you the same. I know of an equvalant brand and type to CSC that is on sale, but I know you wont buy that brand from that company. Rob Hessenius
Waffle
There you go again about VC-17. I am sure he is not switching designs of paint because issues with VC products. Lets not go through another debate about VC again this week. Rob Hessenius
There you go again about VC-17. I am sure he is not switching designs of paint because issues with VC products. Lets not go through another debate about VC again this week. Rob Hessenius
I would also agree with Rob
that about 3 qts ought to do it. A basic and generic rule of thumb is: LWL x Beam x .85 to determine how many sq ft you have to paint. A gallon of most bottom paints cover around +/- 400 sq ft (look at the label of what you plan to buy), but I would guess you have less than 300 sq ft or so to cover. I, too, also believe that West Marine CPP ablative multi-season is a better buy at this time, but it's always a case of personal choice.
that about 3 qts ought to do it. A basic and generic rule of thumb is: LWL x Beam x .85 to determine how many sq ft you have to paint. A gallon of most bottom paints cover around +/- 400 sq ft (look at the label of what you plan to buy), but I would guess you have less than 300 sq ft or so to cover. I, too, also believe that West Marine CPP ablative multi-season is a better buy at this time, but it's always a case of personal choice.
OK, I'll say it..
I have used West Marine CPP and had good luck with it. It's cheaper than Micron but just as good, and compatible, you can paint over your Micron with it. I know some people have issues with WM but in this case the product is equal and cheaper.
I have used West Marine CPP and had good luck with it. It's cheaper than Micron but just as good, and compatible, you can paint over your Micron with it. I know some people have issues with WM but in this case the product is equal and cheaper.
who makes the WM CPP?
anyone know? I know WM does not so it's more an issue of whether someone prefers another brand paint over the mfg for WM's CPP.
anyone know? I know WM does not so it's more an issue of whether someone prefers another brand paint over the mfg for WM's CPP.
VC- 17 easy to appy single season paint..
I love painting my bottom every month, don't you.. Wait I don't paint my bottom every month. I have a multi-season paint... Simple instructions.... APPLYING VC-17 Submitted by Pete Matthews - Former Great Lakes Interlux Representative VC-17 is one of the easiest antifouling paints to apply, and to maintain. But like any other antifouling system, there are some things that have to be done both at the initial application and as part of an annual maintenance program. There are three basic application situations that will be encountered. I'll take them one at a time. First is the new application. This means applying VC-17 to a new boat or a boat that has recently had a different antifouling system on it that has been removed. Essentially a clean fiberglass hull. If it's a new hull, it must be dewaxed completely to remove any residual mold release wax. This should be done with the Interlux 202 Solvent Wash. We recommend using a two-rag system. One to put the solvent on the hull, another to wipe it clean. Change both rags frequently and remember not to dip the application rag back into the solvent container, thereby contaminating it. When you're done with the entire hull, take a hose or container of water and wet down portions of the hull. If the water beads up, there's still wax on the hull and the process must be repeated. Failure to remove the wax can prevent the paint adhering to the hull. Also please note, this must be done before sanding the hull so as not to imbed the wax in the gelcoat during the sanding process. When you are sure you've removed all the wax from the hull, the next step is to sand the entire surface to be painted with VC-17. This is a must. You must abrade the hull to provide a profile for the paint to stick to. Failure to do so can result in the paint detaching from the hull. The hull should be sanded with 180 grit sandpaper, 220 at the finest. After sanding wipe the hull down with 202 Solvent Wash again to remove sanding residue. Some boat manufacturers aren't in favor of sanding hulls because they feel this may increase the likelihood of osmotic blistering. I know of no evidence to support this, but it is the manufacturers warranty. In this case there has been some success reported using a coarse Scotch Brite Pad to scrub the hull. This can be done with the 202 Solvent wash. You must be sure to leave a visible scratch in the gelcoat. I'd have to say that I feel this would provide minimal adhesion at best and I can't recommend the system even though I know it's done. After cleaning and abrading the surface, you're ready to apply the paint. Pick a day that isn't raining, and is above 50 degrees F. You'll notice that under the hat on the VC-17 can there is a bag of copper. This must be mixed into the paint. Please be careful doing this as the copper is very fine and will fly around. (Perhaps a good time for a paper sanding mask) This is what provides the antifouling. You'll notice the can is short filled to allow you to add the copper and stir it in without spilling. This does NOT mean that the can should be filled with a solvent. This is not the case. Only in rare cases should any antifouling paint be thinned and in the case of VC-17, almost never. The paint is best applied with a roller or by spray, IF the yard you're in allows spraying. Please check with the yard manager about this. If you can and do choose to spray, contact your Interlux representative for details. If you're going to roll, any solvent resistant foam or short nap roller cover will work. The recommended system is to start from the bottom of the hull or keel, and roll upwards. Do not over roll or attempt to "smooth" the paint out. It's self-leveling and will do that itself. Just make one pass up to the waterline tape then start over at the bottom. Keep the roller well filled with paint, but not to the point that it runs off onto the ground, or your arm. A word of caution, This paint dries very quickly. Do not pour the entire can into the tray. It will evaporate. Poor in just enough to fill the roller, then add more to the tray when you need to refill the roller. Work your way around the boat working back to the place you started. During an initial application, ALWAYS apply two coats. The second coat can be applied after the first coat has dried, about a half an hour under most conditions. Remove the tape and the boat can be launched about a half-hour after painting. Second application type - you already have VC-17 on the boat. Reapplication is one of the joys of this product. Assuming the boat was pressure washed and stored relatively clean, all that is required is to wipe the hull down with a damp rag to remove any dust or particles that may be on the hull. Inspect the bottom to insure there are no abrasions or flaking spots. If there are, these can and should be touched up lightly with 180 grit on a sanding pad. Just feather in the affected area, wipe to remove any dust and repaint. There is no need to sand the entire hull, in fact, it's not recommended. If you do, there is a danger of sanding through, which would require applying two coats again. Applying the paint is the same as above described procedure and once again, the boat can be launched in about one half-hour. That's all there is to it! The third instance. Applying VC-17 over an epoxy barrier coat. It is not true, by the way, that VC-17 can only be applied over VC Tar. While it certainly can be, it goes on over Interprotect Epoxy barrier coats just as well. In this case apply the barrier coat according to the instructions. After applying the last coat of tar or epoxy, follow the instruction for applying the first coat of antifouling without sanding (called "hot" or "wet on wet" coating) in the case of VC Tar or Interprotect 2000E/2001E. In the case of Interprotect 3000/3001, you must let the epoxy harden and sand with 180 just as though it were a new hull. Please be sure you're reading the correct times for applying antifouling paints (not another coat of epoxy, they're different). The second coat of VC-17 can be applied when the first has dried, again, about a half an hour. Words of caution here, If you have just applied a barrier coat, please do not launch the boat in a half-hour. Please allow the epoxy to cure for as long as possible before launching. (A week perhaps.) This is especially important in the case of VC Tar as this product takes a long time to cure and lifting the boat too soon can cause the straps to distort the tar at lifting points. Maintenance after this is just the same as described above. And that's all there is to it. While it doesn't achieve the boating Nirvana we all look for, the bottom that never has to be worked on, it does come about as close as chemistry will allow us in this day and age.
I love painting my bottom every month, don't you.. Wait I don't paint my bottom every month. I have a multi-season paint... Simple instructions.... APPLYING VC-17 Submitted by Pete Matthews - Former Great Lakes Interlux Representative VC-17 is one of the easiest antifouling paints to apply, and to maintain. But like any other antifouling system, there are some things that have to be done both at the initial application and as part of an annual maintenance program. There are three basic application situations that will be encountered. I'll take them one at a time. First is the new application. This means applying VC-17 to a new boat or a boat that has recently had a different antifouling system on it that has been removed. Essentially a clean fiberglass hull. If it's a new hull, it must be dewaxed completely to remove any residual mold release wax. This should be done with the Interlux 202 Solvent Wash. We recommend using a two-rag system. One to put the solvent on the hull, another to wipe it clean. Change both rags frequently and remember not to dip the application rag back into the solvent container, thereby contaminating it. When you're done with the entire hull, take a hose or container of water and wet down portions of the hull. If the water beads up, there's still wax on the hull and the process must be repeated. Failure to remove the wax can prevent the paint adhering to the hull. Also please note, this must be done before sanding the hull so as not to imbed the wax in the gelcoat during the sanding process. When you are sure you've removed all the wax from the hull, the next step is to sand the entire surface to be painted with VC-17. This is a must. You must abrade the hull to provide a profile for the paint to stick to. Failure to do so can result in the paint detaching from the hull. The hull should be sanded with 180 grit sandpaper, 220 at the finest. After sanding wipe the hull down with 202 Solvent Wash again to remove sanding residue. Some boat manufacturers aren't in favor of sanding hulls because they feel this may increase the likelihood of osmotic blistering. I know of no evidence to support this, but it is the manufacturers warranty. In this case there has been some success reported using a coarse Scotch Brite Pad to scrub the hull. This can be done with the 202 Solvent wash. You must be sure to leave a visible scratch in the gelcoat. I'd have to say that I feel this would provide minimal adhesion at best and I can't recommend the system even though I know it's done. After cleaning and abrading the surface, you're ready to apply the paint. Pick a day that isn't raining, and is above 50 degrees F. You'll notice that under the hat on the VC-17 can there is a bag of copper. This must be mixed into the paint. Please be careful doing this as the copper is very fine and will fly around. (Perhaps a good time for a paper sanding mask) This is what provides the antifouling. You'll notice the can is short filled to allow you to add the copper and stir it in without spilling. This does NOT mean that the can should be filled with a solvent. This is not the case. Only in rare cases should any antifouling paint be thinned and in the case of VC-17, almost never. The paint is best applied with a roller or by spray, IF the yard you're in allows spraying. Please check with the yard manager about this. If you can and do choose to spray, contact your Interlux representative for details. If you're going to roll, any solvent resistant foam or short nap roller cover will work. The recommended system is to start from the bottom of the hull or keel, and roll upwards. Do not over roll or attempt to "smooth" the paint out. It's self-leveling and will do that itself. Just make one pass up to the waterline tape then start over at the bottom. Keep the roller well filled with paint, but not to the point that it runs off onto the ground, or your arm. A word of caution, This paint dries very quickly. Do not pour the entire can into the tray. It will evaporate. Poor in just enough to fill the roller, then add more to the tray when you need to refill the roller. Work your way around the boat working back to the place you started. During an initial application, ALWAYS apply two coats. The second coat can be applied after the first coat has dried, about a half an hour under most conditions. Remove the tape and the boat can be launched about a half-hour after painting. Second application type - you already have VC-17 on the boat. Reapplication is one of the joys of this product. Assuming the boat was pressure washed and stored relatively clean, all that is required is to wipe the hull down with a damp rag to remove any dust or particles that may be on the hull. Inspect the bottom to insure there are no abrasions or flaking spots. If there are, these can and should be touched up lightly with 180 grit on a sanding pad. Just feather in the affected area, wipe to remove any dust and repaint. There is no need to sand the entire hull, in fact, it's not recommended. If you do, there is a danger of sanding through, which would require applying two coats again. Applying the paint is the same as above described procedure and once again, the boat can be launched in about one half-hour. That's all there is to it! The third instance. Applying VC-17 over an epoxy barrier coat. It is not true, by the way, that VC-17 can only be applied over VC Tar. While it certainly can be, it goes on over Interprotect Epoxy barrier coats just as well. In this case apply the barrier coat according to the instructions. After applying the last coat of tar or epoxy, follow the instruction for applying the first coat of antifouling without sanding (called "hot" or "wet on wet" coating) in the case of VC Tar or Interprotect 2000E/2001E. In the case of Interprotect 3000/3001, you must let the epoxy harden and sand with 180 just as though it were a new hull. Please be sure you're reading the correct times for applying antifouling paints (not another coat of epoxy, they're different). The second coat of VC-17 can be applied when the first has dried, again, about a half an hour. Words of caution here, If you have just applied a barrier coat, please do not launch the boat in a half-hour. Please allow the epoxy to cure for as long as possible before launching. (A week perhaps.) This is especially important in the case of VC Tar as this product takes a long time to cure and lifting the boat too soon can cause the straps to distort the tar at lifting points. Maintenance after this is just the same as described above. And that's all there is to it. While it doesn't achieve the boating Nirvana we all look for, the bottom that never has to be worked on, it does come about as close as chemistry will allow us in this day and age.
I believe Interlux made it again this year
So says the guy at WM and that is what got painted on my bottom... Jim S/V Java
So says the guy at WM and that is what got painted on my bottom... Jim S/V Java
west marine CPP
West Marine CPP is made by Pettit, and has always been made by Pettit. All their antifouling paints are made by Pettit. Practical Sailor lists this in their buying guide. In fact, CPP is a recommended paint, performing better than Micron CSC (comparable products) in tests in Connecticut and Florida waters, and it's a bargain buy. Interestingly enough, it outperformed Pettit's own brandname ablative copolymer. Whichever you go choose, I would get 2 gallons. You will use about 75% of that for 2 normal coats. The longevity of ablatives is determined by thickness. Copper content determines its potency. Apply the remainder in another coat and get some more time in the water, an extra season perhaps. Both are formulated for freshwater use. And in comparison to VC-17, well, at ~45 bucks a quart for VC17 versus ~90 for a gallon of CPP, the choice wouldn't be hard for me.
West Marine CPP is made by Pettit, and has always been made by Pettit. All their antifouling paints are made by Pettit. Practical Sailor lists this in their buying guide. In fact, CPP is a recommended paint, performing better than Micron CSC (comparable products) in tests in Connecticut and Florida waters, and it's a bargain buy. Interestingly enough, it outperformed Pettit's own brandname ablative copolymer. Whichever you go choose, I would get 2 gallons. You will use about 75% of that for 2 normal coats. The longevity of ablatives is determined by thickness. Copper content determines its potency. Apply the remainder in another coat and get some more time in the water, an extra season perhaps. Both are formulated for freshwater use. And in comparison to VC-17, well, at ~45 bucks a quart for VC17 versus ~90 for a gallon of CPP, the choice wouldn't be hard for me.
West Marine Bottom Paints
West Marine Bottom Paints, Bottomshield, Bottom Pro, CPP (ablative, single season), and PCA have been made by Pettit since 2005. Prior to that Interlux made them. When Interlux made the paints for WM, their version of CPP was a multi-season ablative. This has caused lots of confusion. This is 100% accurate information, contraire' to what ever has been said or discussed or typed. Rob Hessenius
West Marine Bottom Paints, Bottomshield, Bottom Pro, CPP (ablative, single season), and PCA have been made by Pettit since 2005. Prior to that Interlux made them. When Interlux made the paints for WM, their version of CPP was a multi-season ablative. This has caused lots of confusion. This is 100% accurate information, contraire' to what ever has been said or discussed or typed. Rob Hessenius
Peter, good info, thanks
I've had good experience with CPP and don't know why it isn't more popular. My view of the distinction between so-called single-season and multi-season paint is that it depends on how long you wait between coats...
I've had good experience with CPP and don't know why it isn't more popular. My view of the distinction between so-called single-season and multi-season paint is that it depends on how long you wait between coats...
I was so impressed with this paint....
While in Florida last week, I picked up a gallon of SUPER SHIPBOTTOM paint from the maker in Fort Meyers. ($125.00) a gallon. The reason being is that I saw a boat at the Cutty Sark Marina near Virginia Beach Va. that was in it's 4th season. It still sloughed off when I hit it with a brush on a pole. This is a hard ablative paint. Because it is so thin it does not have a high build to it. That is because a lot of paints have talc to thicken. I bought black and am putting it over blue Micron. I have the centerboard removed on my 222 O'Day and the rudder blade too. Yesterday I decided to try it out. the first coat did not cover well but what I noticed was a chemestry that softened the previous paint and when I went back over where I had previously painted I could feel it pulling on the blue paint. This paint was made to be painted over other brands of paint and so far I can see real good adhesion. the second coat covered very well and the build up was very thin. I once stripped all bottom paint of a boat and pledged to never do it again, a nasty dirty messey job. Super Shipbottom is a multi launch multi season paint. just like Micron and hopefully it will not build up as much either. I will keep you posted as we go through the seasons. I changed colors to see the ware.
While in Florida last week, I picked up a gallon of SUPER SHIPBOTTOM paint from the maker in Fort Meyers. ($125.00) a gallon. The reason being is that I saw a boat at the Cutty Sark Marina near Virginia Beach Va. that was in it's 4th season. It still sloughed off when I hit it with a brush on a pole. This is a hard ablative paint. Because it is so thin it does not have a high build to it. That is because a lot of paints have talc to thicken. I bought black and am putting it over blue Micron. I have the centerboard removed on my 222 O'Day and the rudder blade too. Yesterday I decided to try it out. the first coat did not cover well but what I noticed was a chemestry that softened the previous paint and when I went back over where I had previously painted I could feel it pulling on the blue paint. This paint was made to be painted over other brands of paint and so far I can see real good adhesion. the second coat covered very well and the build up was very thin. I once stripped all bottom paint of a boat and pledged to never do it again, a nasty dirty messey job. Super Shipbottom is a multi launch multi season paint. just like Micron and hopefully it will not build up as much either. I will keep you posted as we go through the seasons. I changed colors to see the ware.
The West Marine CPP
...ablative bottom paint can states it's made by Petit. I bought and used this stuff recently and it was a bargain as West was selling it with a $35 rebate coupon. Normally, this means the paint is being phased out and this may be its last year -- or at least its last at this price and with its current formula. I hope not. Interlux did the same thing last year when it phased out its popular ACT ablative one-season paint (that I used successfully for many years). They then changed the forumla a bit and added some anti-slime ingredients ("New and Improved") in order to raise the price by about 45% -- and that was the reason I chose the West CPP this year. My secret ingredient for avoiding slime is to sail more and sail faster....
...ablative bottom paint can states it's made by Petit. I bought and used this stuff recently and it was a bargain as West was selling it with a $35 rebate coupon. Normally, this means the paint is being phased out and this may be its last year -- or at least its last at this price and with its current formula. I hope not. Interlux did the same thing last year when it phased out its popular ACT ablative one-season paint (that I used successfully for many years). They then changed the forumla a bit and added some anti-slime ingredients ("New and Improved") in order to raise the price by about 45% -- and that was the reason I chose the West CPP this year. My secret ingredient for avoiding slime is to sail more and sail faster....
If you liked VC 17
Perhaps the paint you have now will accept VC over it with only a rough up sanding. West marine will have a chart for you at the store that is more detailed than the one in the catalog. I was able to put VC 17 over a vinyl after a light sanding with good results.
Perhaps the paint you have now will accept VC over it with only a rough up sanding. West marine will have a chart for you at the store that is more detailed than the one in the catalog. I was able to put VC 17 over a vinyl after a light sanding with good results.
Look at the Original Post
Unbelievable- All the guy asked for was how much paint he needed for his Hunter 30'. Then Waffle throws out some VC crap again and off in a new direction. Rob Hessenius
Unbelievable- All the guy asked for was how much paint he needed for his Hunter 30'. Then Waffle throws out some VC crap again and off in a new direction. Rob Hessenius
Rob H
You are right on! I am going to defend my post anyways since makingthyme indicated he had always used VC. My defense is that I was trying to give him a possible option to use it again, if he wanted. The bottom paint debate goes on and seems to get drawn inot VC17. Waffle, with all do respects, seems to forget that his boat sits in salt water and most of us who promote 17 are in the Great Lakes region, where the solid majority of sailors use it, myself included. This includes racers and cruisers. Most mid western sailors would agree that VC17 offers more advantages than disadvantages. In a perfect world, we would not have to paint our bottoms. Beyond the perfect scenario, we can only weigh the plus and minus. Waffle - my advice to you is not to use VC 17. For my situation it is the best choice I have found after using a couple of other options. I know I have not tested all paints, but I have found one that, in the cold, fresh water, of the Great Lakes, serves me very well with minimal maintenance. I repaint the bottom each season and can do it in a half a boat yard day.
You are right on! I am going to defend my post anyways since makingthyme indicated he had always used VC. My defense is that I was trying to give him a possible option to use it again, if he wanted. The bottom paint debate goes on and seems to get drawn inot VC17. Waffle, with all do respects, seems to forget that his boat sits in salt water and most of us who promote 17 are in the Great Lakes region, where the solid majority of sailors use it, myself included. This includes racers and cruisers. Most mid western sailors would agree that VC17 offers more advantages than disadvantages. In a perfect world, we would not have to paint our bottoms. Beyond the perfect scenario, we can only weigh the plus and minus. Waffle - my advice to you is not to use VC 17. For my situation it is the best choice I have found after using a couple of other options. I know I have not tested all paints, but I have found one that, in the cold, fresh water, of the Great Lakes, serves me very well with minimal maintenance. I repaint the bottom each season and can do it in a half a boat yard day.
Wow Wow VC-17
I have seen some beautiful VC job on racing boats. They spray it on and then wet sand it until it looks like colored get coat. That is how you get an extra 1/4 knot! The answer to makingthyme question was 1 gallon. He will have enough left over to touch it up next year. No reason to repaint with a multi-year ablative paint.
I have seen some beautiful VC job on racing boats. They spray it on and then wet sand it until it looks like colored get coat. That is how you get an extra 1/4 knot! The answer to makingthyme question was 1 gallon. He will have enough left over to touch it up next year. No reason to repaint with a multi-year ablative paint.
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