I am working on the bottom paint. I am going to repaint with an ablative (I think), but don't know what the previous owner used. Should I just sand all the old paint off, sand so that the new paint sticks, paint right over the old? I also have a call into the PO, but thought I would try posting here as this forum usually provides wonderful insight. Thanks, Chris D Toy Box C27 #3636
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Yes
If you don't know what kind of paint was used, you should definitely remove all old paint. They're not all compatible so there could be an adverse reaction 'tween the two. Sanding is one very dirty was of doing it. If you do sand, buy/rent a full respirator. Don't use paper masks or even higher end masks. You NEED to use a respirator. Bottom paint is *extremely* toxic & you don't want to end up with black(or would that be "blue")lung. And wear full overalls, gloves, etc. You don't want to get it on your skin if you can help it. Another, more expensive and no less toxic, option is stripping it. I have a friend who used Jasco to strip all his old bottom paint. Ended up with a perfectly clean hull but you need to make sure your yard can dispose of such toxic waste. LaDonna
If you don't know what kind of paint was used, you should definitely remove all old paint. They're not all compatible so there could be an adverse reaction 'tween the two. Sanding is one very dirty was of doing it. If you do sand, buy/rent a full respirator. Don't use paper masks or even higher end masks. You NEED to use a respirator. Bottom paint is *extremely* toxic & you don't want to end up with black(or would that be "blue")lung. And wear full overalls, gloves, etc. You don't want to get it on your skin if you can help it. Another, more expensive and no less toxic, option is stripping it. I have a friend who used Jasco to strip all his old bottom paint. Ended up with a perfectly clean hull but you need to make sure your yard can dispose of such toxic waste. LaDonna
How To Find Out What The Paint Is?
How would one go about finding out what paint was used? Is there a way that boat yards verify it before they do new bottom work?
How would one go about finding out what paint was used? Is there a way that boat yards verify it before they do new bottom work?
Sander With Vacuum Attachment
Chris, As mentioned you should suit up as if you will be covererd with toxic waste, but with the proper sander and vacuum setup you and the environment can remain fairly clean. Get a random orbital sander with the built in tube for attaching a vacuum and attach a large powerful shop vac with disposable fine particle bags and you will be set for life to do the annual or bi-annual light sand and recoat. My first time stripping my bottom on my last boat because of a possible combination of mis-matched paint and me not lightly sanding before painting with a tiny vac that was not up to the task left me looking like a Blue Smurf - not good. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Chris, As mentioned you should suit up as if you will be covererd with toxic waste, but with the proper sander and vacuum setup you and the environment can remain fairly clean. Get a random orbital sander with the built in tube for attaching a vacuum and attach a large powerful shop vac with disposable fine particle bags and you will be set for life to do the annual or bi-annual light sand and recoat. My first time stripping my bottom on my last boat because of a possible combination of mis-matched paint and me not lightly sanding before painting with a tiny vac that was not up to the task left me looking like a Blue Smurf - not good. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Thanks
Thanks to everyone. I did get in touch with the PO and it was an ablative paint so I had to do a minor sanding and I did get a good mask, a tyvek suit, and good safety goggles. Every inch of me that wasn't covered was covered in Blue paint. I did use a sander with a smaller vacuum system, but was able to recover and dispose of a good portion of the waste. It was also a windy day here (about 15-25) and some of the dust did get away from me. But it also kept a lot of what probably would have ended up on me off me. A thorough shower immediately after removed all that was left. Except for some residual dust in my ears, and some funky colored snot. I have to say that I do feel strange, and I am hoping that it is only that I am tired. Chris D
Thanks to everyone. I did get in touch with the PO and it was an ablative paint so I had to do a minor sanding and I did get a good mask, a tyvek suit, and good safety goggles. Every inch of me that wasn't covered was covered in Blue paint. I did use a sander with a smaller vacuum system, but was able to recover and dispose of a good portion of the waste. It was also a windy day here (about 15-25) and some of the dust did get away from me. But it also kept a lot of what probably would have ended up on me off me. A thorough shower immediately after removed all that was left. Except for some residual dust in my ears, and some funky colored snot. I have to say that I do feel strange, and I am hoping that it is only that I am tired. Chris D
West Marine catalog
In the West Marine 2000 catalog, there is a section on bottom prep for different paints. This may be a good thing to read. r.w.landau
In the West Marine 2000 catalog, there is a section on bottom prep for different paints. This may be a good thing to read. r.w.landau
Sanding paint
Just curious. What kind of dusk masks and respirators do people use when sanding their hulls? I've seen families sanding away with their young children helping out without even basic dusk masks!! Personally I always use a respirator with twin canisters designed for very small particle filtration and while it is a nuisance, I feel better about it. I find regular 3 for a dollar dusk masks leak and don't do a very good job, I use them for sanding wood but in the future I will probably use a respirator for that too. This is after tons of planing and sanding as I built my dinghy. What are other people doing and seeing out there....the family with the kids I felt should be put in jail for what they were exposing the youngsters to. Is there a law against this?
Just curious. What kind of dusk masks and respirators do people use when sanding their hulls? I've seen families sanding away with their young children helping out without even basic dusk masks!! Personally I always use a respirator with twin canisters designed for very small particle filtration and while it is a nuisance, I feel better about it. I find regular 3 for a dollar dusk masks leak and don't do a very good job, I use them for sanding wood but in the future I will probably use a respirator for that too. This is after tons of planing and sanding as I built my dinghy. What are other people doing and seeing out there....the family with the kids I felt should be put in jail for what they were exposing the youngsters to. Is there a law against this?
Re: Sanding paint
Call me an extremist - many people do. I don't _just_ wear a respirator. Some time ago at a surplus store I found Israeli gas masks with canisters for about $20. It has considerably more breathing resistance than dual canister respirators I have used before, but the important part is that it keeps the dust out of my eyes. Most people don't think of the eyes beyond wearing safety glasses, but I have found many types of dust will irritate my eyes. Furthermore, some of the dust which collects in the tear fluid will go through a duct into the nose where it can be inhaled or swallowed. I don't wear a full military MOPP suit, but I have found myself much more comfortable afterwards if I have been wearing the gas mask instead of just a respirator. Brian
Call me an extremist - many people do. I don't _just_ wear a respirator. Some time ago at a surplus store I found Israeli gas masks with canisters for about $20. It has considerably more breathing resistance than dual canister respirators I have used before, but the important part is that it keeps the dust out of my eyes. Most people don't think of the eyes beyond wearing safety glasses, but I have found many types of dust will irritate my eyes. Furthermore, some of the dust which collects in the tear fluid will go through a duct into the nose where it can be inhaled or swallowed. I don't wear a full military MOPP suit, but I have found myself much more comfortable afterwards if I have been wearing the gas mask instead of just a respirator. Brian
Use Shop Vac
As a general rule, if you can smell the chemical you're probably exceeding the OSHA limits. Bottom paint has some bad stuff and if you're not feeling well it's probably because you've been exposed the some of the active material components. Your body can adsorb the hazardous components through the skin, via the eyes and nose. If you're going to be a do-it-yourselfer and want to keep the chemicals out of your system, try using a sander with a suction pickup connected to a shop vac. This will provide a much better suction than the vacuum sander will by itself. In the shop vac use a drywall bag - more expensive but it'll help preserve the motor on the shop vac. What happens with the regular bags is the copper dust gets into the motor of the vac and will short things out. Also, the hose between the vacuum and the shop vac needs to be emptied of dust periodically. The bottom paint dust is heavy and can settle out at low points in the connecting hose. The vacuum sander I've used for several years now is made by Bosch and the hose is around 20 to 25 feet long, more or less. I usually duct tape the connections to minimize air leaks. Hose adaptors are available to step up from the small hose to fit the large hose input of the shop vac and is usually in the same department as where the shop vacs are sold.
As a general rule, if you can smell the chemical you're probably exceeding the OSHA limits. Bottom paint has some bad stuff and if you're not feeling well it's probably because you've been exposed the some of the active material components. Your body can adsorb the hazardous components through the skin, via the eyes and nose. If you're going to be a do-it-yourselfer and want to keep the chemicals out of your system, try using a sander with a suction pickup connected to a shop vac. This will provide a much better suction than the vacuum sander will by itself. In the shop vac use a drywall bag - more expensive but it'll help preserve the motor on the shop vac. What happens with the regular bags is the copper dust gets into the motor of the vac and will short things out. Also, the hose between the vacuum and the shop vac needs to be emptied of dust periodically. The bottom paint dust is heavy and can settle out at low points in the connecting hose. The vacuum sander I've used for several years now is made by Bosch and the hose is around 20 to 25 feet long, more or less. I usually duct tape the connections to minimize air leaks. Hose adaptors are available to step up from the small hose to fit the large hose input of the shop vac and is usually in the same department as where the shop vacs are sold.
Caution Brian!!
The idea is sound, but the equipment may be dangerous. The mask you are using was designed for specific gases and toxins. It may not provide sufficient protection from the finer paint dust particles or gases being released by the sander. I strongly recommend that you spend the extra money and buy a modern full face respirator with cartrdiges and particle filters designed for the task (not the generic ones). Most industrial safety supply outlets can fit you with a mask and determine which cartridge will best protect you.
The idea is sound, but the equipment may be dangerous. The mask you are using was designed for specific gases and toxins. It may not provide sufficient protection from the finer paint dust particles or gases being released by the sander. I strongly recommend that you spend the extra money and buy a modern full face respirator with cartrdiges and particle filters designed for the task (not the generic ones). Most industrial safety supply outlets can fit you with a mask and determine which cartridge will best protect you.
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