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Boom Internal Outhaul Question

Nov 8, 2010
10,554
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Ward. I agree with Don on solution options. With a loose footed main I see the outside option a little better for friction free sail adjustment ability.
When you have a fixed sheave in the end of the boom (compared to a block on the end) the clew line exits to the foot of the sail, there is a change of the fairlead as the sail fills. The line presses against the sides of the sheave creating a point of friction.
That’s not true, at least in a well designed system and a strap around the boom holding the clew in place. The clew stays directly on top of the boom at all times.
 
Nov 7, 2011
2,450
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
One small point.... make sure everything fits cleanly inside boom.... some booms are large enough for outhaul AND reefing gear. The boom on my Cat 27 has limited space and would probably not accommodate a large bundle of blocks and full size rope. 3/16" dyneema is stronger than 1/8" wire... you could even use 5/32... which would not require the large thick blocks needed for 1/4 or 5/16 line.
Of course, you could get fancy and use a dyneema core double braid like Samson Warpspeed... and strip the 5/16 cover, except for the part that is handled and cleated, leaving the remaining 3/16 core to work in the blocks.. Saves money on hardware too.
Very good points. I would rather have 5/16 line at the clutch/cam cleat and for handling but I hadn't considered the room needed for blocks to handle that size line. Using Warpspeed and striping the cover on the portion inside the boom would solve that problem.
 
Nov 7, 2011
2,450
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
A lot to think about.
Can I re engineer the internal system to make it better? I doubt it. I do think I can copy the CD system.

I see the advantages to the external system as long as the bits stay on top of the boom on the centerline. My concern is there appears to only be 9" to fit the bits into and still have room for adjustment.
@Don Gillette did you have an issue with this? Do you have a tall rig or standard rig?
If I go external maybe a double block with becket on the topping lift tang and a triple block on the clew ring. The line should end up going aft and I can take it inside the boom with the existing outhaul sheave and from there follow the normal path forward, then back to the cockpit?

I do agree with jackdaw that with a clew strap the clew will stay pretty well centered to the boom. At least that is my experience with my O'day when I went with a loose foot main.

I'm planning on opening up the boom tomorrow. Maybe I'll get some ideas when I see what is inside.
 
May 17, 2004
1,948
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
I see the advantages to the external system as long as the bits stay on top of the boom on the centerline. My concern is there appears to only be 9" to fit the bits into and still have room for adjustment.
@Don Gillette did you have an issue with this? Do you have a tall rig or standard rig?

Ward: I can only comment on what I know and have experience with. Speculating about sail trim things has never worked for me over the past 20 years. My rig is standard but the size of the rig doesn't matter - we're only dealing with about 8" of travel. I didn't mess with the internal system and my set up was bolt rope so I don't know how the external or internal system would function with a loose footed mainsail. I'd like to say the external set up would work in an efficient manner with a loose footed main but I can't.
 
Nov 7, 2011
2,450
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
I got the boom end caps off last week. I had sprayed the ends with PB Blaster, then wrapped the end caps in stretch wrap to keep the smell down. Boom is in the basement and the PBB was really stinking up the house. After soaking a couple of weeks they came off with some light tapping.
I played with various block arrangements and came up with the setup below. I'm also changing the line entry and exit sheaves to BB sheaves. The bits came yesterday so I'll be playing with them over the next few days. I'm planning on use Samson Warpspeed II 5/16" line. Thinking about stripping the cover on the internal portion.

I'm looking for BB sheaves to replace the reefing sheaves. CD sells mast head sheaves 2 3/4" they say will work but they are too big. Need 2" OD, 1/2" ID, 1/2" W. Still looking.

First photo shows what I found inside the boom. Second is the arrangement I came up with.
 

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Aug 1, 2011
3,457
Catalina 270 Wabamun - on the orange ball
If you call Garhauer and speak with Guido, the guy can and will make darn near anything, and it won't cost you a zilion bucks either.
 
Nov 7, 2011
2,450
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
I always go to Garhauer first. The bits I got for the boom outhaul are all Garhauer.
I talked to Mark at Garhauer last week. The only loose BB sheaves were the "Mast Head" sheaves.
I was also looking for BB sheaves for the mast exit blocks they make. He said they had the 1/4" ID metal sheaves which come in the mast exit blocks but the reefing sheaves were a strange size and they could not get them. It looks like the 1/2" ID is the problem.
CD only has them in plastic. I'm still looking.
 
Apr 11, 2018
6
Catalina 30 Peenhonin Waukegan Il
I purchased the CD Internal Outhaul and I have been fighting with it for two years. @Don Guillette, I have looked all over for a good diagram of your External Outhaul modification. Can you point me to a good place to see what you di?

Steve
 
May 17, 2004
1,948
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
I purchased the CD Internal Outhaul and I have been fighting with it for two years. @Don Guillette, I have looked all over for a good diagram of your External Outhaul modification. Can you point me to a good place to see what you di?

Steve
Steve: There is a picture of it on my website, www.sailtrimproducts.com. It's under "Don's Mod's". Unfortunately, for some reason -- the person that designed my site is no longer available to fix the problem - the picture can't be enlarges but you'll see enough of it to get the idea. Before the mod I had no way to adjust DRAFT DEPTH, which is the accelerator. The setting I was stuck with was like the broken clock before I fixed it. It was right for one point of sail and wind condition and wrong for all others. I think Ward H went your route and then gave up on it and converted to the external system. Maybe he has a picture he'd be willing to share.
 
Feb 11, 2017
19
I replaced mine with the 10 to 1 Catalina Direct out haul and couldn't be happier and I did this at the same time as buying a loose foot main.
 
Nov 7, 2011
2,450
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
I think Ward H went your route and then gave up on it and converted to the external system.
Don’s right. My “improved” internal system failed the first day. Rigged an out haul system worked but not well.
This year I’m going with Meriachee’s design.
 
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Aug 1, 2011
3,457
Catalina 270 Wabamun - on the orange ball
6:1 with some nice shiny Garhauer blocks. Simple, out of the way, and nothing hidden.
 
Jul 1, 1998
2,986
Hunter Legend 35 Poulsbo/Semiahmoo WA
Don’s right. My “improved” internal system failed the first day. Rigged an out haul system worked but not well.
This year I’m going with Meriachee’s design.
Ward - question: did you test how the blocks work before installing them in the boom?
If they worked then, do you have any idea why they didn't work when installed?
Are so many sheaves really needed?

Frankly, after looking at the picture with all the block setup that would go inside the boom, and knowing the route to the mast then via turning blocks to the cockpit with more sheaves, I would have been surprised if it worked all that well. Blocks like the setup in the mast have a way of twisting and if there are other line(s) in the boom one of them can prevent a block from rotating and causing a twist between the two block, more friction between one line and another, and only god knows what ...

Personally, I would not want an external anything on the side of the boom because that's a snag point. As pilots say, "Trouble comes in bunches." *Stuff* happens.
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,457
Catalina 270 Wabamun - on the orange ball
Do you have a record of what size/series blocks you used?
Yes, there are actually three blocks in play, the "top" is a 25-18US double with shackle and becket. The boom part of the outhaul line attaches to the shackle. The lower block is a 25-17US which is a double block with shackle. I used one of the single blocks left over at the mast base as a turning block to route the control line back to a cleat. That would be a 25-13US. The angle of the line there is better run through a single than it would be with a triple at the base.
The purchase is actually 5:1, not 6:1 as stated earlier. Even so, there is more than enough power in this arrangement, and the line doesn't move all that far to move the sail. The working range for the clew of the main is about a foot, way, way more than when the bolt rope was in play. It's so easy to power it up or dump it off without touching any other trim.
 
Nov 7, 2011
2,450
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
Ward - question: did you test how the blocks work before installing them in the boom?
Sure did and it tested well at home. I first set it all up just as it would be inside the boom. Then I moved it into the boom and tested it again. Still worked great. I think on the ride back to the boat a block twisted or got hung somehow. Once the boom was on the boat I found that it somehow jammed.
I’ll post what I used after I get home. Trouble getting the photo to load now.
 
Jan 29, 2018
27
Beneteau 411 Irish Ayes II Branford
I did this job on my former Catalina 30. Harbor Freight sells an impact screwdriver that was key to disassembly. Check the rotation direction, place the bit in the screw head, hit it with a good hammer, watch it turn out.