Boat swap - C22 and J24

[Davidasailor26]

all of the plywood in the cabin has been eaten by termites and the standing rigging needs to be replaced. The forward hatch is also completely dry-rotted, with a little bit of exposure of the internal deck plywood there, but no serious rot.

In light of this newer information, I may need to revise my earlier position of just going sailing as-is until a haul-out is possible. Some of these sound like more concerning things than barnacles and even blisters. Makes the J more appealing if in good condition. You may have a hard time selling a Catalina with that kind of rot to a savvy buyer though.

 

[dlochner]

I had been on a waiting list for a slip in the local marina for 18 months, and had to place a boat in the slip within 14 days of accepting the slip or lose my spot. So, I acted fast on the lowest priced boat I could find, but didn't really do my due diligence.

As this story unfolds, the Catalina is probably your best place holder boat. If the damage is as exhaustive as you suggest, then the boat is not worth repairing, especially the bulkheads and possible coring. Put the boat in the slip you have rented and spend some time looking for a better more suitable boat.

However, this is the first I've heard of termites!

Termites are a problem in Hawai'i. First I've heard them on boats too, however, growing up in Kailua back in the 60s there was always a house in town covered in a fumigation tent to deal with termites and cockroaches.

 

[Jackdaw]

I think the big lesson here is that when you spend less that $3K for a 30+ year old boat, its going to be a money and time pit. All you get to do is pick your pit.

 

[shemandr]

In jest, I would say the only thing stupid you are doing is buying a boat.

The Catalina has decent sails and the deck is solid, but all of the plywood in the cabin has been eaten by termites and the standing rigging needs to be replaced.
"Other than that Mrs. Lincoln ..."

 

[dlochner]

Well, I guess termites and boats are not a new thing in Hawai'i. Saw this over on CF:

Termites in the hull. - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

I am in escrow on a 43 Bruce Roberts built in Trinidad in 1998 using c flex construction. I waited 2.5 months for the boat to be hauled out. After 1550 in survey fees , I got the news that the bottom

www.cruisersforum.com

 

[MikeHoncho]

Man, I hate to say it but this reads like a train wreck in slow motion with the OP wanting confirmation of decisions that he has already made. But I guess if you have to have a boat in a slip to qualify you for renting it I guess you have to do something. A RIB (if qualifies) seems to have been a good idea or something that wouldn't double the cost of the original purchase to dispose of.

 

[G0ri11@]

Nothing like seeing your thought process and decisions laid out in your own writing to give you a cold wake up call to your own insanity.

 

[dlochner]

Nothing like seeing your thought process and decisions laid out in your own writing to give you a cold wake up call to your own insanity.

It's a boat, there is nothing sane about this.

May this be the first of many insane moments in your sailing experience.

Aloha!

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

it would be interesting to go to your slip...and use a power washer wand underwater along with a painters multi tool blade...and see how clean you could get the bottom, maybe take her on a short little sail, and see how it feels. see if you like her.

 

[rpludwig]

gorilla, now that you've been properly keel-hauled here, and somewhat educated as what to look for, go look at the one on Honolulu Craigslist for $800. Tween the two, you might be able to make one good boat, chainsaw what's left and haul to the landfill. This would be quite the project, but it's been done before. You've already ordered a new outboard and running rigging, so you are somewhat invested in new gear.
(be sure to take your scuba gear, or at least mask/fins/snorkel/gloves & termite detection equipment).

WARNING: As my dad used to say "the further you go, the behinder you get!!

 

[G0ri11@]

So, I bought the J/24. I appreciate all the advice.

We had a good day sailing it on Saturday and we gave it a pretty thorough inspection. I swam under it and checked the keel and there were no visible cracks and the bottom is very clean with no barnacles. I jumped up and down on the deck everywhere I could and there is essentially no give (certainly far less than on the C22). Of the 4 sails included, the jib and main we used on Saturday are in very good condition; spinnaker is supposedly in good condition, although we didn't use it Saturday; and a second mainsail needs some minor repairs.

There are a couple of minor repairs needed on the deck and in the cabin. We worked out a deal with the current owner to complete a list of repairs that we pointed out before we take the boat. The most major repair is reseating one of the stanchions, which needs some new sealant around the base. The others are also pretty minor, but he is more equipped to do them than I am, as he owned a boatyard facility that he is in the process of shuttering. He's also going to paint the bottom and the sides.

I feel really good about it largely because of who I am buying from. I trust the guy and my wife and I are going to take sailing lessons from him. At this point, I've spent a good deal of time with him. Also, he's known around the island's sailing community.

Anyway, I think and hope we made a good decision and I'll be sure to post plenty of pics when we are out on the water in a few weeks! If I'm wrong, I will submit myself for a thorough forum-thrashing.

As far as selling the C-22: I will give it a try and see if someone is interested, either as a placeholder or a big project. I'm sure I won't get back all of what I paid, but that's ok. If no buyer, there are some charities around the island that take boat donations. Or I'll just put it on CL for free. Hawai'i Five-0 (the TV show) recently bought an old C22 here to use in one of their episodes, so maybe they'll need another!

 

[JRacer]

That's great! Hope you enjoy sailing it as much as I did mine for 30 years. What's the hull number? You might consider quarter inch aluminum backing plates for the stations. Especially if they are the "old style" stantions (small base). The old ones had a tendency to cave in the deck if pulled inwards too hard, like when you broach and the 200 # crew member grabs it high (leverage) to hold on up on the high side. I replaced all of my bases with the "new style" that has a bigger footprint. When I did that, I made some backing plates from quarter inch sheet aluminum to further widen out the load under the deck. Never had a problem with them moving or tearing up the deck after that. You can see in the picture the backing plate on the ceiling and I included a picture of the new style stantion base. And added a little eye candy for you to motivate you to get that chute out of the bag!

 

[JRacer]

To add to my commentary in post # 17 on page 1, the reason that I installed the large backing plates on the opposite side of the bulkhead from the chainplates was because back in the 1980's it was common to really tighten the shrouds - very tight. Later tuning practices were changed to run them looser to get more forestay sag. But, because of the very tight shrouds, I began to see slight cracking in the bulkhead paint emanating from the chainplate bolt holes. So, the big backing plates were my solution to the spread out the concentrated loads on the bulkhead from the chainplates.

You can also see in the picture in post 17 (the pic with the sink in it) that there are four bolts through the bulkhead at the bottom. On the forward side (in the v berth) is a four inch aluminum 90 degree angle bracket that is bolted to the bulkhead and bolted to the keel step "I" beam. That was also installed to take the high loads from the mast step with the rig being run so (too) tight. We started to see that the "I" beam was being compressed and the bracket bolted it in place to keep it from moving further by transferring some of the load to the bulkhead.

 

[JRacer]

Here are a few guides you might find helpful.

 

[rpludwig]

gorilla, congrats on your J-24....good you stopped the bleeding on the C22....Great on the seller, sailing lessons, bottom work & all, enjoy and post pics when u can...Cheers!

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I've sailed both boats and there is no question that the J/24 is a faster and more fun boat to sail. I suspect most of the negative comments above about the J/24 are by people who have never sailed one. By today's standards, the J/24 is a slug in comparison to the modern designed J/Boat, but it is still a fun boat to sail and the Catalina 22 is a yawn fest in comparison, but the Catalina 22, for what it offers (when the bottom is clean) is a nice little boat. Assuming it has the swing keel, the C-22 will blow the doors off a J/24 in two feet of water (with the keel up), but also remember that the Catalina 22 is not self-righting unless the keel is down and locked in place. The fact that the J/24 has a deeper fin keel makes it more stable and it will point much higher into the wind. Sailing in Hawai'i is not really comfortable in many cases because of the seas and exposure, but on a nice day, either boat will suffice. I assume you are trying to get into the Keehi Small Boat Basin (sp?) on the Sand Island Access Road by LaMariana YC. As far as the vermiculite bilge on older J/24's, if it has held up to this point, you are probably OK. If you hang the boat in the air and the keel is stable (doesn't sway from side to side), you are probably fine. I have done the modification from vermiculite to what is recommended and it includes removing all the vermiculite and then fiberglassing in thwart stringers (which for up to 10 years were provided by J/Boats as warranty - but no more). They also were supports for the floor, which had to be cut out to get at the vermiculite and the entire sump. As pictured above, a teak and holly sole was used to replace the original fiberglass floor. Another issue with early J/24's was the bottom of the main bulkhead became rotten and so the bulkheads had to be replaced. If the ones on the J you are looking at are solid, that is a good sign. For day sailing, the J/24 is great and two can easily sail the boat with main and headsail. For racing, you need a crew of 5 to accommodate all wind situations and to fly a kite.

 

[JRacer]

And, it doesn't get much better than downwind, kite up in a blow with a following sea. Rooster tails off the beam!

 

[G0ri11@]

Just a little update. It took longer than expected (unsurprisingly), but the J24 is officially active and we've had her out about 5 times. She sails great and the paint job looks really nice. Almost like a new boat, despite being 40 years old. Still a few minor things to fix up, like installing some new lifeline stanchions and a little fiberglass repair on one of the cabin lockers.

We've tried out multiple sail configurations and have even had the kite up once (briefly).

 

[shemandr]

That's great. There are still lots of J 24's being sailed and they can still win in PHRF fleets. Sooner of later you're going to want to know how you're sailing in comparison to other boats.

 

[JRacer]

Post some pictures when you can. Love to see it.