Boat Survey

Don S/V ILLusion · Jul 13, 2012

About the only thing one could deduce is that this isn't a very thorough survey and any conclusions about purchase would be dubious. At a minimum, I'd like to know how much moisture, how extensive the areas are and how bad the delamination is. Simply injecting epoxy into a delaminated rudder is a bandaid and doesn't address a far more serious issue of rust and weakening of the rudder's webbing which a thorough surveyor sould have mentioned to you.

Stu Jackson · Jul 13, 2012

Chainplate issues are easily (relatively) dealt with. Chainplates are routine maintenance.

The rudder is a different story. Could be a complete rebuild or a new one. Older rudders were built with regular steel onto the shaft, newer ones used stainless but if exposed to heavy water inside could be toast.

That's all I can tell from that short report.

Many Catalina owners have dealt with rudder issues over the years. The factory could probably sell you a new one. http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6717.0.html

Please see both pages.

jrowan · Jul 13, 2012

I work for a living as a building inspector, not a marine surveyor.
Although I am always suspicious of anyone who writes an official report that cannot even spell correctly, such as "chain plated" instead of chain plate? You can only judge the professionalism of the inspector by their use of spelling and grammar. His report does not sound very professional or thorough.

anchorclanker · Jul 14, 2012

Curious what it cost to get that single paragraph on paper. I am also curious how you obtain moisture readings from the glass surface without drilling holes into the laminate. Is there some tricky equipment they use?

Jon_E · Jul 14, 2012

Hopefully there was more to the survey than what you posted. At first I thought that is the saddest survey ever, but then it occurred to me that you may have only posted part of it. If that is all you have, ask the broker for the rest of the survey.

If what you posted is the whole survey, you should get your own survey performed (by someone different, obviously) if you are really seriously considering purchasing this boat. Catalina changed things with the 30 over the years, different model years of Cat-30's have different characteristics so get a surveyor who knows this model.

Also, if the broker presented that one sheet as a complete survey, you might think twice about him/her, too.

jrowan · Jul 14, 2012

I don't know about "not up for any major projects right now" mate. Whenever you buy a used sailboat, there's always the potential risk of an expensive & time committed repair down the road. It's a boat after all. If you don't have the time to commit for proper maintenance, then I would suggest buying into a timeshare boat club, or chartering a boat when U actually are ready to sail. For the vast number of sailors at my marina who seem to only go out for a week once or twice a year, chartering or renting would be a much cheaper way to go. Just my 2 cents.

Don S/V ILLusion · Jul 14, 2012

stevestk said:
Thanks for the responses. The only thing I removed from the survey was owner personal information. This is the second time I have received a 'structural' survey like this while looking at boats. Both have been summaries of what was seen. I've felt you could us one to rule a boat out but not rule one in. I would get my own full survey before purchasing anything. I'm a do-it-yourself kind of person and expect any used boat will have issues. I'm just not up for any major projects right now. I hope to go sailing before the season is over.

I understand the theory of a limited "structural" survey but they are not common for a reason. It is essentially a pre-survey. Such steps are almost never informative and don't really provide any benefit in the purchase process. You still have to do your own due diligence and obtain a thorough survey on which to base a decision. Something like what you paid for frankly isn't worth the paper it's written on either in terms of value or substance.

Big Windy · Jul 19, 2012

Doesn't sound good to me. "Higher than anticipated moisture content" in six areas is not good. There are many C30s (or C310s or C320s) out there, I'd keep looking.

jcottert · Jul 21, 2012

I was looking for a Cat27 and one appeared in Chicago. A broker notified me and I drove to Chicago to look. There were some obvious issues and someone recommended a surveyor who I contacted. She had all the credentials and went to work. A couple of days later I received a 25 page report including photos. Compared to the survey posted -- it's like night and day. I finally found and purchased a C27 here in west MI after having it surveyed. There was no comparison in the surveys but the differences weren't fatal. However, after I purchased the boat I've discovered many things that were missed and have caused me hours of work and many bucks. If the cost is several hundred dollars it's worth every penny. A good survey is a must. Ask around to see who people recommend. I was lucky with Marion (my Chicago surveyer). I would have been well surveyed to have her come to Holland, MI If you were in western MI, (or wish to contact me by email) I could give you three names "pro" and one name "con."

Don't skimp -- a good survey is worth every penny and will save you a lot of money in the long run. jcottert

Parkercr · Jul 21, 2012

That my friend is most definitely not a proper survey. If one is searching for a boat you should spend at least a few days with a recurring visit next day to further your preception of the boat. No to be rude, but pay little attention to the glossy photo's or the owners assuring explanation of his worthy craft. Before hand increase your awareness and knowledge of the type of boat your seeking. Be sure to write down potential problem areas but more importantly do a visual inspection of the sail inventory, verify all electrical and electronics systems are operational and engine service log, plumbing, rigging and overall condition. If your not experienced take a friend who has experience. If you are then sure the boat is sound, hire a certified surveyor. Do not prep him on your findings! Allow him to do his due diligence and report via the written survey. If he uncovers additional information you missed it would be a good idea to ask the surveyor to provide an estimate of the cost of replacement or repair from his findings. Then and only then make an offer based on the findings. Even very good surveyor's overlook some costly items due to accessibility or sometimes taking the broker's or the owners word. It goes without saying, no matter what the surveyor or owner present, you can expect to spend extra cash on your newly acquired boat, after all the owners has a reason to sell. creinhardt

jrowan · Jul 22, 2012

There are good & bad surveyors out there. Obviously this isn't a good one. I believe that most boats under 30 feet with simple systems, and with common sense you can do a basic survey yourself. Don Casey's book on "How to Inspect the aging Sailboat" was an invaluable source for checklists. Sounding the decks with a rubber hammer can be done yourself quite easily. Most surveyors do not even go aloft to verify the rigging at the spreaders or mast head. So U still have to hire a rigger for this. Most surveyors also don't inspect the engine & trans. or Generator to verify their function. This is a big area where very big bucks can be spent. Instead of hiring an incomplete surveyor I hired a marine diesel mechanic to check through my engine & confirm it runs well with a cylinder compression test, & I hired a rigger to go up the mast & inspect all the fittings at the mast head first hand. Anybody can tell you that your boat is 30 years old & may need future work. When I want specific information I hire pros who only work in these areas, rather then a jack of all trades. But in honesty, I am also a jack of all trades building inspector. lol. My 2 cents worth.