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Uh Oh (reality check)
Perhaps dog was a bad choise of words. These are spunky old boats with 134 PHFR rating which is good for a cruiser. Back to reality about the value of this vessel. Ever go to a classic car show or see customs cars listed for sale? You frequently see signs or ads that say $30,000 invested, will sell for $11,500. Just because you invest a lot of money and labor in your vessel it doesn't necessarily go up in value the same amount. Similiar effect are seen with some home improvements like swimming pools. Take a $35000 boat, do $25,000 in improvements and upgrades and the vessel may be worth $42k when your done. That's reality. I hope you never have to try to collect that $80k from Allstate. (if you ever do start with a better boat next time) If I were to do a retrofit that extensive I'd start with a Tartan, Sabre, PS, Valiant, Westsail, .... that was designed to "go the distance". So Fred, if you had it to do again would you start with an H34?
Perhaps dog was a bad choise of words. These are spunky old boats with 134 PHFR rating which is good for a cruiser. Back to reality about the value of this vessel. Ever go to a classic car show or see customs cars listed for sale? You frequently see signs or ads that say $30,000 invested, will sell for $11,500. Just because you invest a lot of money and labor in your vessel it doesn't necessarily go up in value the same amount. Similiar effect are seen with some home improvements like swimming pools. Take a $35000 boat, do $25,000 in improvements and upgrades and the vessel may be worth $42k when your done. That's reality. I hope you never have to try to collect that $80k from Allstate. (if you ever do start with a better boat next time) If I were to do a retrofit that extensive I'd start with a Tartan, Sabre, PS, Valiant, Westsail, .... that was designed to "go the distance". So Fred, if you had it to do again would you start with an H34?
Project
They laughed when I bought a d shackle and ground the keel on my Venture 24 so it will pull straight up. Shines like diamond earrings on a goat! Why the 1/4" wire rope? Wait for the next installment..
They laughed when I bought a d shackle and ground the keel on my Venture 24 so it will pull straight up. Shines like diamond earrings on a goat! Why the 1/4" wire rope? Wait for the next installment..
Attachments
Daryl, you aren't going to get the point.
We all get the boat we can AFFORD that suits us. I built up sweat equity because that is what I could AFFORD. The 34 is not perfect. No body said it was. I put time and money in my boat because I knew what I had, and it was what I could AFFORD. And she suits me. And anybody that 'invests' in a boat is living in another universe. Boats are an expenditure. You know, a hole in the water, that you dump,,,, what you can AFFORD.
We all get the boat we can AFFORD that suits us. I built up sweat equity because that is what I could AFFORD. The 34 is not perfect. No body said it was. I put time and money in my boat because I knew what I had, and it was what I could AFFORD. And she suits me. And anybody that 'invests' in a boat is living in another universe. Boats are an expenditure. You know, a hole in the water, that you dump,,,, what you can AFFORD.
Daryl, Agreed to Hull Value is just that
Its an "Agreed to Hull Value". If he does sink the boat and its a total loss (and they don't catch him ...hee, hee, hee
) Then they have to pay him the full amount, it not "actual cash value". Good for Fred, sounds like he's got a full "Agreed to Hull Value" on an older boat from Allstate, which is not as easy to get. Thats why Boat US probably didn't insure him, its their policy not to insure old boats like that. They will insure new boats for "All Risk, Agreed Value Coverage". For older boats, etc they have a " Boat Saver policy" -- all partial losses are subject to depreciation. In the event of a total loss, reimbursement is for the actual cash value (the boat's current market value, not the replacement value) at the time of the loss." http://www.boatus.com/insurance/policy.htm Boat US insurance has taken a beating over the last couple of years (not directly their fault - due to Hurricanes, etc) and they are being a bit more carefull in writing policies and for "how much" then they ever did.
Its an "Agreed to Hull Value". If he does sink the boat and its a total loss (and they don't catch him ...hee, hee, hee
) Then they have to pay him the full amount, it not "actual cash value". Good for Fred, sounds like he's got a full "Agreed to Hull Value" on an older boat from Allstate, which is not as easy to get. Thats why Boat US probably didn't insure him, its their policy not to insure old boats like that. They will insure new boats for "All Risk, Agreed Value Coverage". For older boats, etc they have a " Boat Saver policy" -- all partial losses are subject to depreciation. In the event of a total loss, reimbursement is for the actual cash value (the boat's current market value, not the replacement value) at the time of the loss." http://www.boatus.com/insurance/policy.htm Boat US insurance has taken a beating over the last couple of years (not directly their fault - due to Hurricanes, etc) and they are being a bit more carefull in writing policies and for "how much" then they ever did.Boat US insured our '85.
Tom: BoatUS insured our 1985 H'31 about 3 years ago. We have an agreed upon value of $35k (much more realistic) and we pay about $270/yr. I really do not think that Allstate and rest of these automobile insurer have agreed upon value. They have replacement value. This is usually low book value less depreciation. I would bet that Allstate would give Fred about $20-25k if he had a total loss. I hope he does not need to find out. I have only heard bad things about the automobile insurers. They are probably better if you sink it than if you have a major problem. Things are so bad with Allstate, that there is a website called www.allstateinsurancesucks.com (what does that tell you?) The general concensus from BoatUS policy holders is very positive. That is why we switched. They also provide a $500k fuel spill rider on their policies. They also give you an annual discount if you do not have a claim.
Tom: BoatUS insured our 1985 H'31 about 3 years ago. We have an agreed upon value of $35k (much more realistic) and we pay about $270/yr. I really do not think that Allstate and rest of these automobile insurer have agreed upon value. They have replacement value. This is usually low book value less depreciation. I would bet that Allstate would give Fred about $20-25k if he had a total loss. I hope he does not need to find out. I have only heard bad things about the automobile insurers. They are probably better if you sink it than if you have a major problem. Things are so bad with Allstate, that there is a website called www.allstateinsurancesucks.com (what does that tell you?) The general concensus from BoatUS policy holders is very positive. That is why we switched. They also provide a $500k fuel spill rider on their policies. They also give you an annual discount if you do not have a claim.
Steve, Yes I believe that they do
Agreed Hull value on older boats, they just do it less and less often and sometimes for "less" than what some owners believe their boats are worth. Another thing they do is give you an "Agreed Hull value" when you have an existing Mortgage or loan on the boat, but they usually won't do it for more than what was "officially" your purchase price. Did you have a "Bill of Sale" and pay taxes that said the boat was purchased for $35k ? Rarely will they give you "Agreed Hull value" for $100k if you only paid $50k, even if you "stole" the boat and got an incredible deal. Unless you want to spend a lot of time trying to convince them of the "fair market value" and try to get a "Agreed Hull Value" at that price.
Agreed Hull value on older boats, they just do it less and less often and sometimes for "less" than what some owners believe their boats are worth. Another thing they do is give you an "Agreed Hull value" when you have an existing Mortgage or loan on the boat, but they usually won't do it for more than what was "officially" your purchase price. Did you have a "Bill of Sale" and pay taxes that said the boat was purchased for $35k ? Rarely will they give you "Agreed Hull value" for $100k if you only paid $50k, even if you "stole" the boat and got an incredible deal. Unless you want to spend a lot of time trying to convince them of the "fair market value" and try to get a "Agreed Hull Value" at that price.
Agreed Hull Value
Um, beg to differ on how to agree on a dollar number with your insurer. Mind you, this may vary down to the individual agent/broker and underwriter, so "your results may vary". The notion is to insure the boat for it's ultimate replacement cost as determined by the policy provisions. Some policies insure for actual cash value, others for replacement cost. In reality, most are a combination. The policy limits necessary to adequately insure the boat will vary as the policy provisions vary. So, what usually happens is that the value of the loan, the surveyor's report of value, and the data sources of selling prices are considered sometimes together and sometimes individually. Practically speaking, I think the "what do I need to get out of this thing" thinking by the owner and "how much is enough but not too much to get whacked" thinking by the insurer usually results in an uncontested policy amount even if it differs between owners of similar boats. And, I have negotiated more value when adding expensive gear and less when values are dropping without going to the expense of a new survey. So, it isn't as cubic as you might expect. Well, gee, wasn't that illuminating? *zzz I think I'll go work on the boat.... Rick D.
Um, beg to differ on how to agree on a dollar number with your insurer. Mind you, this may vary down to the individual agent/broker and underwriter, so "your results may vary". The notion is to insure the boat for it's ultimate replacement cost as determined by the policy provisions. Some policies insure for actual cash value, others for replacement cost. In reality, most are a combination. The policy limits necessary to adequately insure the boat will vary as the policy provisions vary. So, what usually happens is that the value of the loan, the surveyor's report of value, and the data sources of selling prices are considered sometimes together and sometimes individually. Practically speaking, I think the "what do I need to get out of this thing" thinking by the owner and "how much is enough but not too much to get whacked" thinking by the insurer usually results in an uncontested policy amount even if it differs between owners of similar boats. And, I have negotiated more value when adding expensive gear and less when values are dropping without going to the expense of a new survey. So, it isn't as cubic as you might expect. Well, gee, wasn't that illuminating? *zzz I think I'll go work on the boat.... Rick D.
Rick, I agree
But remember they could also substantially raise my insurance rates too. That does not mean that "all" insurers want to operate that way. Its a two way street, I don't have to take their insurance and they don't have to insure me on my terms. But the reality (and I asked 3 different times just trying to see if I was getting a consistent answer from Boat US) was that they said I "could" petition to get a higher "Agreed Hull Value" But I would have to show all my receipts for all my upgrades (My "sweat equity" didn't count too much) and have to argue my case. Not to mention the according increase in insurance premiums (and maybe not totally linear) and they really don't encourage it. Probably just something Boat US is instituting, maybe just for some customers or areas. My boat IS insured for what I paid for it, I would have to argue that I "stole" the boat when I bought it and added a lot of things to increase the value (which I guess I could go to the effort to do, but is it worth it for the 10 % difference in a total loss??) We must remember they don't "have" to insure you. Or if they want they can say insurance is $10,000 a year. As it is, my insurance is very reasonable (Knock on wood - knock, knock, knock ) and there is not reason to upset the apple cart.
But remember they could also substantially raise my insurance rates too. That does not mean that "all" insurers want to operate that way. Its a two way street, I don't have to take their insurance and they don't have to insure me on my terms. But the reality (and I asked 3 different times just trying to see if I was getting a consistent answer from Boat US) was that they said I "could" petition to get a higher "Agreed Hull Value" But I would have to show all my receipts for all my upgrades (My "sweat equity" didn't count too much) and have to argue my case. Not to mention the according increase in insurance premiums (and maybe not totally linear) and they really don't encourage it. Probably just something Boat US is instituting, maybe just for some customers or areas. My boat IS insured for what I paid for it, I would have to argue that I "stole" the boat when I bought it and added a lot of things to increase the value (which I guess I could go to the effort to do, but is it worth it for the 10 % difference in a total loss??) We must remember they don't "have" to insure you. Or if they want they can say insurance is $10,000 a year. As it is, my insurance is very reasonable (Knock on wood - knock, knock, knock ) and there is not reason to upset the apple cart.
Phil, I've got you figured out!
Daryl DOESN'T EXIST! You are writing that stuff to fire up the masses! No one else talks like him. No one else thinks like that. You are writing that stuff with the pseudonym of Daryl to keep the ratings of HOW up. Right!?
Daryl DOESN'T EXIST! You are writing that stuff to fire up the masses! No one else talks like him. No one else thinks like that. You are writing that stuff with the pseudonym of Daryl to keep the ratings of HOW up. Right!?
You might be right Fred but
I think that Daryl is probably just a frustrated landlubber who is unhappy with his life so he trys to tear down others to make himeself feel better *yks Or... Phil is really Daryl and writes that stuff to fire up the masses *! Regards, -Jim- s/v Forever
I think that Daryl is probably just a frustrated landlubber who is unhappy with his life so he trys to tear down others to make himeself feel better *yks Or... Phil is really Daryl and writes that stuff to fire up the masses *! Regards, -Jim- s/v Forever
Dog is my co-pilot (Inamar experience?)
This is just a re-post. After the "Dog" fracas my question kind of got lost... --------re-post----------- I have gotten two quotes, one from Boat US for $1800/yr and one from Inamar for $750. The difference is so large that I called them both back several time to make sure that the policies were comparable. The coverage from Inamar is actually better ($350 per tow, $2k deductable, dinghy coverage) in many respects and even on many others (liability, personal effects). I should state that I will have in a few weeks a new 2004 Hunter 33 that will be my first sailboat owned. After all of the positive BoatUS comments I was wondering if anybody had personal experience with Inamar? Thanks.
This is just a re-post. After the "Dog" fracas my question kind of got lost... --------re-post----------- I have gotten two quotes, one from Boat US for $1800/yr and one from Inamar for $750. The difference is so large that I called them both back several time to make sure that the policies were comparable. The coverage from Inamar is actually better ($350 per tow, $2k deductable, dinghy coverage) in many respects and even on many others (liability, personal effects). I should state that I will have in a few weeks a new 2004 Hunter 33 that will be my first sailboat owned. After all of the positive BoatUS comments I was wondering if anybody had personal experience with Inamar? Thanks.
Seeking Ted Boodry
Trying to make contact with Ted Boodry. Message: Finally found you on the net. Hope you are doing well. Contact me regarding sailing plans. Rsm4@ix.netcom.com
Trying to make contact with Ted Boodry. Message: Finally found you on the net. Hope you are doing well. Contact me regarding sailing plans. Rsm4@ix.netcom.com
Umbrella policy
To Jeff M, I bet that your state farm policy is priced accordingly. What I would check on is whether your limits are high enough to satisfy a great umbrella policy. Make sure there are no gaps or you will be rsponsible for those gaps. I think 500$ is cheap compared to the what you need to insure yourself against damages imposed by juries. You will lose your house, car or second home if a jury awards a large settlement. How much would you sue someone for drowning/killing/maiming your loved one. Who cares about the loss of a 26M when the sherriff comes to town to secure your assets? Buy "Insurance for Dummies" it will make you think twice before going for the lowest priced premium.
To Jeff M, I bet that your state farm policy is priced accordingly. What I would check on is whether your limits are high enough to satisfy a great umbrella policy. Make sure there are no gaps or you will be rsponsible for those gaps. I think 500$ is cheap compared to the what you need to insure yourself against damages imposed by juries. You will lose your house, car or second home if a jury awards a large settlement. How much would you sue someone for drowning/killing/maiming your loved one. Who cares about the loss of a 26M when the sherriff comes to town to secure your assets? Buy "Insurance for Dummies" it will make you think twice before going for the lowest priced premium.
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