Boat insurance blues

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James

Rich of Bristol RI what broker

Rich - read your posting about your broker - Who is he/she? Its great to read about insurance companies that actully service their customers - Can you tell us who your broker is and what company does he/she represent? Thanks
 
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Chris Burti

Dogma!

Free legal advice...Warning... it's worth what you paid. If some idiot adjuster claims an 'Act of God' exclusion in the context of a standard all-risk marine policy...Stick to a doctrinal response. Two words..."Bad Faith"! In explanation: If an insurance company denies a claim in bad faith, they are liable for the claim amount, plus attorneys fees and in many jurisdictions...punative damages. If you have a casualty policy that excludes acts of God, you don't have much as it only protects against someone's negligence. I'm pretty sure such policies are illegal in my State. I would think the same would apply elsewhere in general.
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,203
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Act Of God Nonsense

Chris, I think what John's saying is that a boat broke loose and caused damage to others and they are looking to collect under the owner's liability policy. The trick is to prove the guy was negligent in some way so as to cause the boat to become adrift which could be a challenge when hurricane-force winds are ripping through the marina. But, if he had rotten dock lines or failed to take reasonable precautions, they could have some liability. Would be a tough one to untangle, I suppose. Sort of like those 100 car collisions when visibility turns zero. None of this is Act of God stuff, just basic liability rules. Makes my hair stand up when I hear Act of God quoted as a reason for not paying a claim; it's ignorance at work. Rick D.
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
And it should be criminal

How that could ever hold up as a reason to get out of a claim in court is for legal scholars to comment on, not this atheist. :)
 
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Taz Whitley

Boat US 2

After the hurr (fall 03) my boat was totaled as a result of another sv that had been grounded. This sv (36' Cheory) when pulled off the beach using nylon line ran over my boat while in it's slip. Neither the boat owner, marina, nor the operator of the boat doing the pulling had insurance. When BoatUS was contacted, they said no problem, we will pay you and collect from the others. After getting an estimate and then having a insurance investigor look at the boat, they determined that it was a write off. When I purchased my newer, larger boat the premium was in line with what I was paying on the smaller boat per thousand. However, they are having me jump through hoops getting the items repaired that the surveyor reccommended. ie vent loop for bilge hose, enclosing the lazzeratte storage area, drilling vholes in the rudder to see how much moisture drains, etc etc etc.
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Taz, sounds like it's in your best interest too.

Good report on BoatUS. P.S. Sounds like we aren't going to get bad reports on Boat US. Too bad they wouldn't go above book on my boat, even with a replacement value from the surveyor that was more than twice as high. I went with Allstate. They have the rest of my policies and gave me agreed value for just a little more than Boat US. One more point folks. Let's be naming names when these insurance companies do you wrong! That's how we put 'em out of business.
 
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Taz Whitley

BoatUS 2A

I think the best of this company as they have treated me fairly since i have been with them 20+ years. I have completed about 35 (80%) of the items that they want done even though I may not agree or understand why a perticular item needs to be done.
 
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Scott Ginesi

Funny that this is the topic this week........

Perfect timing for this topic for me. I look forward to reading all of the posts on this subject. For now though, I thought I'd share a bit of my most recent insurance woes. My 86 Pearson is insured and the premium was roughly $800 last year. Just got the renewal for this year and my premium is roughly $1400 now. Plus my deductables have increased and to make matters worse my Bahamas/Turks and Caicos coverage is now limited to 30 days instead of the former 90. Why the increase I ask? No claims.....no changes....same boat....... Answer............We are currently in a "hard insurance market" blah, blah, blah....... So, I am shopping for insurance...... Just thought I'd share that.....in case someone feels singled out and received similar treatment.
 
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Scott Ginesi

And if your boat is in SOUTH FLORIDA

Forgot to mention that it is especially tough for boaters to get insurance in South Florida. Especially the Keys where I live. Hurricane Andrew caused many claims and most insurers won't even touch us for that matter. So, you think you had it bad.......
 
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Gordon McCallum

From a BoatUS Insurance Underwriter

As a boater, I sympathize with you on your gripes! Watching your premiums rise year after year is disheartening and aggravating! As a BoatUS marine insurance underwriter, I can also pass along a different perspective on certain issues. Regarding the obvious (and understandable!) worry about not being covered for an "act of God", all that is required is a bit of research before binding with any company. Damage from hurricanes is something that BoatUS covers. Sure, it's a natural phenomenon, and something that devastates focused areas. But BoatUS covers it nonetheless (that's a major reason why insurance in coastal Florida is the highest in the country). NOTE: CHECK WITH YOUR AGENT TO SEE IF YOU HAVE A SPECIAL "STORM DEDUCTIBLE". Some companies charge less because they have some outrageous deductible (usually $10,000) applied when any claim can be attributed to weather. Between Isasbel, a bitter winter across the country, the California wildfires (smoke damage occurred many miles from the actual fires), 2003 was a nasty, nasty year for claims payouts. Unfortunately, the ugly reality of insurance is that costs get passed along to the insureds (it hurts us all). I don't know if this makes you feel any better, but hopefully it helps to shed light on another perspective. Now, regarding claims not being paid, I am curious as to what companies did not pay during a hurricane. Barring an outrageous storm deductible, hurricanes are a major reason WHY you get insurance in the first place! As an example, (okay, time to toot the BoatUS horn here) on Saturday morning after Isabel, I drove out to Herrington Harbor North, in Deale, MD, to see if the family boat had survivded the night (it had been hauled on Wednesday or Thursday). Luckily, it had survived, but several of the docks (mainly the ones directly facing the open bay) had been destroyed, as well as the boats that had been attached to them. I arrived at about 11 am. Walking down a dock that had survived, I was thigh-deep in water, and saw that BoatUS had already come and gone from that dock. The stickers that we use for disaster areas were on the hulls, showing that they had been seen, and checks had been written. There were dozens of boat owners there who had no idea what to do. They couldn't even get a hold of their insurance companies. I saw a few adjusters there (their companies will remain nameless) from companies that primarily insure cars, and they had no idea how to gauge the extent of damage to a boat! My advice is to shop around. Get rates from as many companies as you can, make sure they're comperable (actual cash value or agreed value), and that seemingly minor coverages are offered on both (such as uninsured boater protection, or fuel spill liability coverage). Boat insurance isn't cheap, but at least you'll know that you're getting the best deal for your hard-earned dollar. In closing, just remember this ... your premium amount doesn't mean squat if your company isn't there when you need them. Make sure your primary concerns are covered (hurricane coverage with no special deductible, theft coverage, salvage coverage, etc.) and that people who have HAD claims with a company were satisfied with how it was handled. Talk with others at your marina to get their take on how they've been treated at their company.
 
Feb 10, 2004
4,232
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
James of Fairhaven, my guy is....

Stanley Ashman Aero-Marine Insurance Services 38 Rockland Drive Brockton, MA 02401 Phone/Fax: 508-586-6017 Voice-pager: 617-486-9378 The company that he writes me with is Zurich and the policy I have is a Master Mariner. I met him at the Boston Boat Show and he gave me a quote in March. In May I called to accept the quote and he honored it although company rates had increased about 10%. His compnay only writes insurance in the northeast area. I'm not sure of the geographical limits. I could go on several paragraphs about how he set up an automatic monthly direct pay plan and how the company didn't ask for any money up front, but spread my full-year premium over the last 11 months... He is a no-nonsense guy.
 
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Gordon McCallum

Insurance premium hikes

Scott, that premium hike is rediculous. If I may ask, what company was that with? As I have found, it seems that many firms (especially in Florida) are trying to get out of the boating business. They way they do that, so they don't have to cancel you, is to hike your premiums so high that you leave. Is it fair? No. Is is reality? Yes. The problem is that these companies don't accurately assess the risk of an applicant/boat before binding the coverage. Then, at the end of the year, when their loss ratio comes in, they see big losses, and have to adjust the premiums accordingly. That's how you have the crazy 40% - or higher - rate increases year after year. Yes, I'm biased, but that's one reason why you should get insurance from a company that specializes in your particular market. For car insurance, I want a company that knows all about cars. For boats, I want a company that knows about boats (Try asking technical questions about your boat to a company that specializes in cars). I hope this helps!
 
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Steve G.

Act of God needs redefining

Let's face it, if the clouds open up, and there stands a huge white-bearded figure that looks like Charleton Heston, who waves his hand producing a ball of fire that melts your mainsail, it was an act of God. In this case you are not covered and quite frankly should have second thoughts about going out again. Sorry, but we've managed to explain wind damage in mortal terms. Proper precautions and responsibilities being satisfied, denial of claims is not only unjustified, but irreverent having used God as an excuse.
 
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Chris Burti

Thanks Rick

That would obviously make a difference in the deductable and claims history issues. I must have been daydreaming in left field again.
 
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Tom S

15 years of boat ownership and no claims

--Knock on wood--- (knock knock knock !!) So I guess I'm happy with my insurance co. (lol) ;) (BTW I have Boat US insurance -- they seem to be ok - but how the heck would I know *o ) Or should I rather say the insurance co's should be happy with me. In fact I should call them all up and have them start courting me ! Considering all the money I have given them over the years. Oh - and your all very welcome. I am helping to keep your rates down. Please do the same. ;D
 
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Chris Burti

I disagree, Gordon!

When you say boat insurance isn't cheap. It is 1/3 the cost of my auto insurance, with four times the loss coverage and with equal liability limits. And that is with a perfect driving record and a multiple car discount! If you folks want to get in the auto insurance business, you're talking to a potential customer!
 
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Tom S

Act of God? Heck every lightning storm I know

about has been an act of god. If an insurance agent refused to compensate me for obvious lightning damage, I'd smack him upside his head and report him to the state insurance comission faster than that lightning strike.
 
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Larry Long

Thanks Tom S ,et.al.

I will have to pay premiums at my current rate for 120 years to pay them as much as they paid me last year for storm damage to my boat. However, My last auto claim was in 1969 and my last homeowner's claim was in 1981 so overall, I am still paying a lot more in premiums than I receive in claims. All insurance is State Farm.
 
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G. Bade

Good year, Bad year

Ya know... something that has always given me cause for curiosity .... when an insurer has a good year, they pocket the cash not paid out; when an insurer has a "bad" year of many claims paid out, they don't pull cash from their previously filled pockets to pay but intead raise rates on the people who have already made their pockets bulge.
 
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Tom S

G. Bade. I don't know about Marine insurers

or some insurance companies, but my HomeOwners Insurance does just that. I pay a certain premium for the year, but if the claims and payouts are low, you get a refund. I have gotten money back every year I have had insurance from them BTW the insurance Co is Amica Insurance, very highly rated by a few magazines over the years. In the past I had heard that you needed to be referred for insurance, especially for auto insurance. I like that. Why should every two-bit bum that will increase premiums & try and get over the system & doesn't care , make my insurance go up ?
 
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