Boat Buying

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Tim Purcell

One yacht does all THAT?

So the same make and model seemed to be at home in those disparate situations? I'd pick the most bang for the buck in terms of equipment, after a thorough survey. The least used, is the most attractive at first glance though.
 
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Ken Cobb

BWC resale

I am under the impression that the blue water cruisers cost twice as much when new, but depreciate more slowly. If my cruising included the desire to do a few open water passages, it well could be the best buy for the long term. I am familiar with a sailor who owns a Crealock 34 that is over 20 years old, and which still seems to be a very high quality boat. A lot of things are over-engineered on the good BWC's. They aren't as likely to come apart from hull flexing over two decades as the lighter dockominiums are. On the other hand, a BWC typically is heavier in displacement for its size, and isn't as good a boat in light are as a dockominium. If most of my sailing was daysailing in harbors or bays a BWC would be less useful.
 
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Steve G.

Good point, Tim

You seem to be one of few to point out that any serious buyer would be having a thorough survey done on the boat. This is needed for insurance anyway. Used boats are a hodgepodge. Some "doctor's" boats are immaculate, and some are ill-kept. We once watched in disbelief as a cardiac surgeon from our area creamed several boats, as well as his own, trying to make the dock. Guess he was drumming up business. Was the doctor a sailor? Did he tension the rigging right, or did he pound on the chainplates the few times he came about? Power jibes can do a number on running rigging. There's a lot to consider. The question would need to be made even more specific, and point out that all of these boats had the same survey results, but that would relegate it to the unlikely.
 
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Steve

Well I've done 3 of the choices...

My second boat was a 22' Columbian which had been lightly used and was in nice shape but left a lot to be desired. My next boat was a P-30 that had raced hard and came with lots of sails and toys. Unfortunately I wanted to cruise her and spent a fortune getting her to cruise to the Bahamas and back to Maine. But what a great boat she was. My new boat circumnavigated and was a single owner boat. He repowered,rerigged,new sails and most electrics. Hope it pleases me as much as the others. It would depend what stage of my life and goals I was in which boat would be right for me. Pax S/V Gandalf
 

abe

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Jan 2, 2007
736
- - channel islands
Lawyer's boat? Almost as good as buying it from...

Yeah, thats almost as funny as buying it from a used car salesman. They know every trick in the book, and how to hide every problem. Good luck, I hope it floats.
 
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Kay

Doc's Lawyer's and Sunsets

I am not a racer and like my comfort. A racer is often neglecting in comfort items. I don't sail fast; I like it when the birds pass me! After getting a "feel for the boat" I would have the boat of choice surveyed. This time I would listen to the surveyor a little more closely. Bare in mind any used boat is a mystery, any boat new or used will have issues. I will buy the one that makes me feel good. If it is the Doc's boat great, BWC swell. I just want to get out there on the water and sail, have a little fun before the Doc gets me, the lawyer fights for my property and my soul sails into the sunset.
 
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wayne mazurek

I bought a chartered boat

purchased an Oday 37 centercockpit sailboat from a sailing school--got a great bargain, allsystems up to snuff and boat generally good shape but cosmetically needs some help--when they did routine maintance--varnishing-painting they never heard of tape so some very bad overlap spots not too neat, but thevalue makes it worth my while to fix--needs woman's touch to brighten up and spruce up interior.But all in all the important stuff--sails engine systems all excellant.
 
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Brian

Choices

Boy, this is like asking someone what kind of water do you want to drink. After a survey of all, I would probably take the bluewater cruiser. Given that the sails were in good shape, it would fit my intentions a little better than the others. After that the racer, sorry I have no better reason than to race it(my wife might not go for it though). Interesting question, maybe I could choose a little easier if you could tell me what kind of yacht is this versatile, and can it be shorthanded?
 
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Chris Burti

Abe, Do you know any lawyers personaly?

That may have been intended as humor, but it reads like a flame. Try inserting your profession, ethnic origin, religeous or political affliation in substitution for 'lawyer' and see how it fits...it might chafe a bit. Best regards, cb
 
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Tom S

Chris, hey was that meant to be a derogatory

remark made at "used car salesmen" ? *5
 
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Vincent

Would you consider The Moorings a serious company?

I went to the link that Michel Benarrosh provided and saw some good pricing on a boat from The Moorings and wondered if he would consider that a company that maintains their boats well. I had never considered a used charter boat but maybe now . . . it is thousands less!
 
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Tim

Missing the Point - It's all in the Advertising

I read through the 20 some-odd posts before mine and noticed that maybe only one person seemed to get the idea that the question says (to paraphrase): Same Make and Model Boat for Sale, 4 different previous uses or histories used to attempt to advertise and solict perspective buyers. Given that - they're all the same basic boat - say a Catalina 42 for example - and each has been used as described: Blue Water Cruiser, Racer, Charter & Dock(tor) Queen. Would the majority of the answers you gave have been the same? Seems like it was about evenly split between Doctor's boat and Blue Water Cruiser, with the exhaulted Blue Water Cruisers turning up their nose at "dockaminiums" and production boats like the Hunters/Catalinas/Benateaus. In my mind, the choice between the four different Catalina 42's comes down to which one had been potentially used/abused the least - in this case the doctors boat. It's liable to be the most complete, ready to use as noted (day sailing and cruising) and have been subjected to the least amount of extreme usage. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
 
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Vincent

About those exaulted blue water cruisers

I have been trying for months to decide which boat I would like to buy for my retirement/blue water adventure. I have asked many "exaulted blue water cruisers" who have been out there for years, and although they have never sailed, owned, or been on a modern production boat, they always poo poo them and end up recommending a very expensive older (10 years or more) boat. I have to wonder if perhaps these boats that are 10+ years have the benefit of computer engineering/design, materials like carbon fiber and kevlar, as well as the support network of the large production builders like Hunter/Catalina/Beneteau. I think that some of the snob appeal companies are just that, snob appeal. At the recent Strickly Sail in Miami I went on all of them, and besides the fact that the Oyster/IP/Hylass sales people were less than friendly, I found that for long time livaboard cruising, I would take the design of the so called dockiminiums over any of the high prices models, and anymore, all the other equipment is from the same manufactures (Yanmar, Harken, Rayathon), so what really is the difference once you consider the kevlar hulls and stainless keel bolts etc? I really couldn't find any, except of course, the price.
 

abe

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Jan 2, 2007
736
- - channel islands
chris..

best man is a lawyer and wife is a lawyer. Did not mean to offend anyone, thought this place needed some sence of humor.
 
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Tom S

Tim you are correct

The question is same make same model. Well in that case I would still go for the least used boat (the doctors) unless the price is not reasonable. I'd rather put my own touches and additions on it anyway. I like it the way I like it, just because other boats have something doesn't mean I want it that way on my boat . Even if a boat came fairly well equiped, I might not like the type of equipment or installation and I'd ripp it out and change anyway. Still don't want the Blue Water Cruised , nor the Charter boat. No matter how well maintained those boats are they ~~still~~ are lived on and sailed on 250+ days a year. Why pick one of these boats when you can have one that has barely been used. (It all really comes down to price though) As for the one set up for racing it all depends on the condition, some race boats are "rode hard and put away wet" and some are taken well care of....I like the concept of carbon fiber spar -- not sure about them for long distance cruising though .
 
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Kevin

Right on Tim!

Tim, glad you took the time to point us in the right direction. Kevin
 
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Chris Burti

Here we go a wanderin'

But since this is an opinion query I thought I might cast mine into the pot, though it be a digression. I too have noted the sort of comments from 'blue water' sailors and the NR types that Tim remarks on. For those of you too young to catch the allusion, soft drinks were formerly sold in NR - non returnable - bottles. These were made of "less sturdy construnction", i.e. thinner glass than the older thick-walled glass bottles that could be returned for deposit. Interestingly enough, the NR held up every bit as well as the old ones for their intended purpose of delivering the product to the customer. They were all ultimately supplanted by cheaper plastic. The existing glass bottles are here today for the discriminating consumer demanding the retro packaging. I believe that most of the discussion of the relative merits of the traditional boats versus the modern ones, that I see on these lists, has more to do with the features that attracted that particular author than it has to do with intrinsic merit. There are real differences. I am not altogether satisfied that those differences really make either one superior. Clearly, the pros and cons weigh differently when the dominant use of the owner is factored in. Long keels, deep dispacement hulls, bouyant entries and small divided sail plans make for boats with good seakeeping tendancies and rough weather capability. They make sailing shorthanded in big water physically easier. There is a logical and valid inference that this is safer. The fin keel, high volume, moderate displacement, fine entry boats, sail higher and faster than their traditional cousins. But they also require more attention at the helm more strength in sail handling and worse, storage and protection of the body in the interior are deplorable. Capsize equations and righting moment etc., etc. are all considerations that can be argued ad nauseum. When it really gets bad you are gonna wish you were home. Nonetheless there is also a logical and valid argument that fast passages also make safer trips. Candidly, in the worst case scenario, I'd rather be in a well found traditional boat once the wind gets above 50 knots. On the other hand, I've only allowed myself(or been unlucky enough) to be on the water in that kind of weather a couple of times in over three decades of sailing. I don't venture offshore (I don't consider the Gulfstream or Carribean as either offshore sailing either) and have come to the point in my life that hopes for trans-oceanic crossings are relegated to daydreams (unless some unrealistic opportunity falls in my lap with the stars just right). Hence, I have opted for a C320. It superbly meets my present needs and is likely to meet my actual needs for years to come. It won't sit at the dock most of the time because it doesn't take 20 knots of wind to allow it to get out of its own way. It is very well built and the systems are designed well (with some exceptions) and installed properly. The Admiral, my friend, spouse and partner of thirty years loves it. Which means; honeydo chores are not a higher priority than sailing. I've actually 'slapped glass' for a living in years past and can attest to the high quality in these Cats (and the other competative brands). Interestingly enough, I too was at the Miami IBS and inspected the Hinckley on display there. I was fortunate to board late in the afternoon on Monday so it wasn't busy. The Rep. permitted me to poke beneath the floor boards and into some of the drawers and compartments despite the signage to the contrary. She was georgeous. The joinery was impeccable, the glass work well finished. But I was less than impressed with way systems were run and installed and disapointed that they were still using wood framing. I have, in recent years, seen evidence of lower quality in the fit and finish of high end boats and am drawn to the conclusion that there is far less separation in the basic construction quality and quality of systems in boats built today. The real differences, IMHO, are ones of price, design, and of amenities and options. Those don't always make a boat better, just better for a particular individual. So which is better, a Ford F-150 or a Corvette? Oh, and on the actual subject of this thread, all things being equal as stated, I'd most likely go for the dock queen if between 5-10 years old.
 
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Chris Burti

Abe, certainly didn't really think you intended

to offend, but thought it might serve the list well to point out how some humor may appear to read. I apologize if I am being overly thin-skinned. I've put my foot in my mouth on so many occasions, I can buy shoes to fit by taste. <big grin> Best regards,
 
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