Bilge pump

lucas_deboer · Jul 13, 2005

Hi Andy,
I put my pumps in the keel, as low as possible. As my vega is a series II the fuel tank is also in the Keel, and
under that tank there is some space left where I have installed a bilge pump. I have 2 pumps: an electrical one
and a manual pump as back up. Power consumption of the electrical one is 35 Watt, so 3 A at 12Volts
(3Ax12V=36W). My battery is 90Ah so theoretically the pump could run 30 hours (30Hx3A) on it, in practice you
can discharge a battery only half, so effectively the pump will run approx.15 hours on a fully charged battery).
With only an outboard engine I would definately advise you to install at least a manual pump as well.
Your Vega shouldn't make any water. Check out where the water that's in it comes from. In most cases it is
rainwater that entered through the deck or other places above the water line that ends up in the bilge. No idea
how much water can be in your Vega before you get's in trouble. The problem in my case is that the batteries are
in the keel as well, and I always try to avoid the water level to rise above the level of the battery poles. I have
had "floating batteries" once: due to a broken drinking water pump the entire water tank emptied in the Keel.
Sailing was no problem at that moment, but running the engine or using an electrical pump became inpossible
because the batteries fully discharged due to the water.
Bye, Lucas
V-2122 "Hakuna Matata"
Rotterdam - The netherlands
--
Citeren Andy Toomey xxxblister@...:

wxt8981 · Jul 14, 2005

Hello Andy;

Put the bilge pump at the lowest point of the bilge- there
should be a through-hull at the stern, run the hose from
the bilge (any good garden hose should do- but check the
diameters of the bilge outlet and the through-hull
fitting.)
Be sure to make a loop at the stern outlet to prevent water
come in when sailing.

Install a float switch like 'Rule-A-Matic', but make sure
that float switch is high enough to accommodate the
back-wash from the remaining water in the hose- otherwise
the bilge will go on but do nothing but to pump that little
bit of water up the hose on and on.....

The bilge pump shouldn't use too much electricity- I never
had a problem. Your outboard should provide enough- and
when at dock- use a trickle charger- but make sure nothing
is grounded- I hate those trickle chargers- they destroy
more boat than any other peril!

Wilhelm, V-257

bv0820 · Jul 14, 2005

Andy I am another fan of the automatic bilge in the keel...also recommend installing a high low (2) floats to guard against battery drain. I also had "floating batteries" thanks to a broken whale foot pump

vhiort · Jun 2, 2006

We are using the original bilge pump mounted in the cockpit. However we
are a bit uncomfortable with having that as the only arrangement,
especially when going off-shore.

We have been trying to find a good spot to mount at least one more (in
the cabin). Since we haven't really found a good spot I figured I'd ask
around to see what the rest of you are using.

Best regards/
Viktor
Vega 875 "Ida"

stevebirch2002 · Jun 2, 2006

Hi Viktor

I agree that the original bilge pump is just about useless! You need a
good manual bilge pump like a Whale or Henderson. Quite a few places to
fit around the cockpit.

Cheers

Steve Birch (Technical)

wxt8981 · Jun 2, 2006

Hi Victor;
I'm using a Rule bilge pump, located at the lowest point of
the bilge, and a Rule float switch. Works good!
But make sure you mount the float high enough to
accommodate the returning water from the hose (otherwise
the float switch will turn on the pump again and again ....
)
Wilhelm, V-257

vegatern · Jun 5, 2006

Hi Viktor
The Tern has a Henderson 5 manual pump mounted in the cockpit
seat just behind the port locker. It is operated with a through deck
fitting. The mounting is oriented so that it can be serviced easily
through the locker. When I bought her I was uncomfortable sailing down
the coast with the one older pump and bought a Whale Gusher as a back
up. I have not yet permanently mounted the Gusher yet but my choices
seem to be; 1) On the bulkhead above and aft of the stove or sink. 2)
Under the stove but inside the cabinet. 3) On the partial bulkhead aft
of the port berth but under the cushion, removing the cushion to gain
access and use. 4) On the same partial bulkhead but behind the
removable seat back. The Gusher just fits in all these locations
though the suction run is awkward and all would require at least some
cabinet modification. I think I am leaning towards #4 and running a
fixed suction hose under the stove and then turning inboard from
under and just aft of the stove. By cutting a hole in the drip pan
under the flywheel the hose can drop to the bilge. The alternative is
to run all the way back to the shaft ally, which seems a long way. The
hose will need protection from chafe where it passes through
bulkheads. There is room behind the stove for the outlet hose run. I
would have preferred 2 pumps of the same model had that been possible
at the time. I have puzzled with this for a while, waiting for
inspiration. If you have any ideas I would be interested.
Craig, Tern 1519

alan_critchlow · Jun 6, 2006

Our Vega has a Henderson V pump installed forward in the starboard
cockpit wall. It is an unusual installation. The intake goes back
down to the bilge through the opening just forward of the rudder
post. The exhaust connects onto the starboard cockpit drain through a
Y.

I bought spare parts for it so I suppose it is still available. It
allows pumping from the cabin as well as in the cockpit. You just
reach through the companionway to pump.

I think I have pictures of it somewhere if you would like to see the
installation

Alan Critchlow V1639 Voila

pelagicasd · Jun 12, 2006

Hi Alan, we also have the same arrangement and same pump. The cover for the
pump has detiorated in the Mexicn sun and I'm looking for ewplacement parts.
Where did you get yours?
Viktor. You might consider just mounting it on a piece of plywood (big
enough to kneel on) and using it as a portable pump. More than one boat has
been saved because another boat was able to bring as pump over to it. Walt

brockhaus77 · Jul 12, 2009

Not a fun subject, but here goes my question:
I've just bought a new Rule-Mate fully automatic
bilge pump (1100 gph, with switch built in)
which works fine in principle, but when located at the
very bottom of the bilge goes into an endless cycle of
pumping - shutting off - water rushing back in from the
(corrugated 1 1/8") hose - filling the bilge just enough to
restart the pump - etc. ad infinitum. Obviously not a viable
solution. I've tried 2 things:
1) Installing the pump higher in the bilge - no problem,
but a lot of standing water remains at all times (this is
what my setup was before)
2) Install a check valve. The only one I found that had
the right diameter barbs was just a rubber flap (ostensibly
for a FOOT pump) which worked for a while, but then the
bilge pump couldn't get it open against the back pressure
and it kept running and running without removing any
actual water.

Any good suggestions?

Sebastian (VegaLyra 1060)

btfag0s · Jul 12, 2009

Route the outlet pipe so that its highest point is as close to the pump as
possible (like a swan neck). That will reduce the volume that flows back,
especially if you fit an anti-siphon valve at the top.

Alisdair

btfag0s · Jul 12, 2009

I've done similar - the hose can run up the side of the engine and into one
of the lockers to get it above the waterline (I have an old Vega where there
is only a piece of plywood, I don't know if later models have a glassed
engine bay). You'll still get a pint or two back into the bilge, depending
on the bore of the pipe.

I have a separate pump and float switch, but even so I end up with an inch
or two in the bilge. If I want it dry I have a hand operated pump that can
empty it.

Hope that helps.

Alisdair

tim_klynn · Jul 12, 2009

You can wire a bilge pump with 2 float switches, one at the bottom of the bilge and the other higher in the bilge. The pump won't start until the higher switch kicks on and it won't stop until the lower switch shuts it off. I would guess that you can use the internal float switch for the lower float.

I just put in a whale 650 and an inline check valve. I routed the hose out along the fuel fill line, out into the lazarette, looped it up along the exhaust gooseneck and then teed it into the cockpit drain line. It works fine.. I put the check valve under the cockpit hatch so that I can service it. I also used a clear reinforced vinyl hose so I can see any blockages at the check valve. I also put it on a bilge switch that has automatic, manual and off.

If you are interested in the 2 float switch idea, I'll see if I can find a link to where I read about it. I am going to work on my bilge pumping setup more next winter. I want to add a manual pump in the cockpit and maybe one in the cabin. -Tim

tim_klynn · Jul 12, 2009

Ok, I lied. You need 2 switches and a relay.... here is a link, scroll down the page to see a schematic of how to wire it:Bilge Pump Float Switch Arrangement - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

pjacobs55 · Jul 12, 2009

I don't know if this will help, but here is what is working for me, on an early Vega with the shallow-type bilge:

My auto bilge pump sits near the bilge bottom, but the float switch (separate) sits up a couple of inches higher, on a wood block.

The outlet pipe is quite short, and empties into the cockpit floor, and the water runs along the scuppers, out the cockpit drains. Sure, it gets your foot wet, but at least you know when the pump is coming on! This also shortens the outlet hose length and reduces the volume of back-flow. I have no anti-siphon on it and it works fine.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

pjacobs55 · Jul 13, 2009

I installed same pump and immediately replaced it with a pump and float switch for the same reasons you mentioned. I thought about a check valve but anticipated problems and didn't want a valve to impede pumping in an emergency.Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

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From: brockhaus77
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:05 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Bilge pumpNot a fun subject, but here goes my question:
I've just bought a new Rule-Mate fully automatic
bilge pump (1100 gph, with switch built in)
which works fine in principle, but when located at the
very bottom of the bilge goes into an endless cycle of
pumping - shutting off - water rushing back in from the
(corrugated 1 1/8") hose - filling the bilge just enough to
restart the pump - etc. ad infinitum. Obviously not a viable
solution. I've tried 2 things:
1) Installing the pump higher in the bilge - no problem,
but a lot of standing water remains at all times (this is
what my setup was before)
2) Install a check valve. The only one I found that had
the right diameter barbs was just a rubber flap (ostensibly
for a FOOT pump) which worked for a while, but then the
bilge pump couldn't get it open against the back pressure
and it kept running and running without removing any
actual water.

Any good suggestions?

Sebastian (VegaLyra 1060)

brockhaus77 · Jul 18, 2009

Hi Alisdair,

thanks for the advice - after much wrecking of my brains, I ended up
following it (could have saved my brains!)...
I actually put the loop into the engine bay underneath the cockpit sole.
This means that SOME water will flow back pushed from the higher
exhaust port on the transom, but MOST of the volume of the pipe
is on the bottom of the engine bay, and with the anti-syphon valve,
that water will NOT flow back - just enough of a difference so that I
can put my bilge pump back into the bottom-most position.
(Of course, I needed a lot of extra pieces (hose, clamps, ...) because
anti-syphon valves don't come with the same diameter barbs as
bilge pump exhausts... rats!)

- Sebastian (VegaLyra 1060)

sailshiva · Jul 19, 2009

Hope all the West Coast and beyond Vegaterians are planning to be in Friday Harbor next weekend. Brian Hoffler is in route from Canada, Mitzi and Bear will be there, and Howard and I will be there too. Peter? Chuck and Laura? Gloria & Jim? Ken and Judy?? Who's in??

Sheila

pjacobs55 · Jul 19, 2009

We'll be there, slip H-19 !
Peter& Ulla
#1331 'Sin Tacha'