Big Jib or Small Jib

[RichH]

Thanks for the complements.

Ive been for a long time racing with much smaller LP headsails. On the Chesapeake my 'all purpose' headsails are all between 120 and 130% LP.

Very interesting point your make about the 'whisker pole' when not 'racing'.
For long distance cruising and when ~broad reaching, I sometimes 'pole out the clew' of the headsail .... and with the pole on the same side of the boat as the mainsail boom !!!!!. This results in a 'fantastic' sail shape and high high sail efficiency, and especially removes all the usually occurring *over-trimmed bottom panel* that normally occurs on broad reaches because most monohulled boats are too damned narrow for jib leads when 'reaching'.

Theres a posting on SBO about HOYT BOOMS .... perhaps one of the greatest 'boat inventions' ever .... as such keeps a sail at nearly 'perfect' shape at virtually all sailing angles. Yes, you need a much smaller jib on a Hoyt boom .... but the efficiency you get when that 'clew' is stretched far outboard is 'stunning', and probably far exceeds the efficiency of a much larger LP sail, especially when its foot section is radically overtrimmed to make the 'rest of the sail' work when the clew 'should' be further outboard when reaching.

 

[Bill Roosa]

I would chose the lightest weight jib I had regardless of the size. The heavy and probably bigger (but not necessarily) jib will just hang there and not fill. a lighter weight sail will fill and produce drive even if it is smaller.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Great topic!

Based on this discussion, I am now thinking about the purchase of a new headsail. Sue will be so glad! When we bought our boat with old sails, the first thing I wanted was a new suit, and I fell into that camp that bigger is better, right? The boat came with a 110 with a very high clew, so I ordered a 150 with a deck sweeping foot. (I still use that 110 occasionally)

I could blame the North Sails rep who didn't get into this discussion with me. But he probably recognized me for who I was (am) ... a customer who thinks he knows what's best. So why argue with the customer when his mind is made up!

Now it's been 8 seasons since that purchase ... the time is about right!

 

[FastOlson]

Getting it Juuust Right....

Based on this discussion, I am now thinking about the purchase of a new headsail. Sue will be so glad! When we bought our boat with old sails, the first thing I wanted was a new suit, and I fell into that camp that bigger is better, right? The boat came with a 110 with a very high clew, so I ordered a 150 with a deck sweeping foot. (I still use that 110 occasionally)
I could blame the North Sails rep who didn't get into this discussion with me. But he probably recognized me for who I was (am) ... a customer who thinks he knows what's best. So why argue with the customer when his mind is made up!
Now it's been 8 seasons since that purchase ... the time is about right!

I used to rep for a big sail loft, a long long time ago. I had a day job so never needed to try too hard to "sell" stuff to people.
It's really hard for a sailmaker to say no when the customer waving the checkbook is firm in his demands, even though that customer may be making his decision based on inadequate knowledge or experience. Most sail makers/sellers will go along as long as the sail is not too inappropriate for the intended usage. And then, remember that they also need to eat and pay rent.

For 20 years until he retired, I always treasured my acquaintance with Tim, loft mgr at UK Northwest, because he would regularly talk me and anyone else out of buying anything we really did not need. (!) We used to kid him that making the customer demand a sail was a cool selling technique!


Fair winds,
Loren

 

[oday630]

I would like to continue the thread a bit more, but about what Rich was saying about monohulls on a broad reach. I've heard of sheeting the jib using the end of the main boom. 1st, is it legal in a race? And is it practical, will I see a significant gain? My Oday 28 is a pig on a broad reach, all my gains up and downwind are lost on a broad reach.

 

[r.oril]

First - Don, I love your book and charts!
I crew a 1985 C30 std that has a "Big" genoa on a furler. The boat didn't point very well. Using Don's instructions I have improved the pointing and reduced the healing, but I am planning on replacing the genoa with a stock jib. I have been told that I can get the same speed(almost), point better and have less squealing from the wife. I have also adjusted the rigging with the help of a pro rigger to get the most out of the above changes. A normal speed is 3-4 knots in lite winds and 6 plus in 8-10. ( this boat is also a live-aboard )

Answer: A jib that keeps the wife happy!

 

[Stu Jackson]

I would like to continue the thread a bit more, but about what Rich was saying about monohulls on a broad reach. I've heard of sheeting the jib using the end of the main boom. 1st, is it legal in a race? And is it practical, will I see a significant gain? My Oday 28 is a pig on a broad reach, all my gains up and downwind are lost on a broad reach.

1. Jib sheeting on boom: any links, I haven't heard of this and it would seem to be a very tricky maneuver, fraught with rigging issues and safety issues if the SHTF.

2. In many cases we have literally walked away from boats with bigger genoas than our 110 working jib in broad reaches. I find that large genoas are overpowered in our windy conditions here, and that many skippers over trim their mains (in too much) on broad reaches. What size jib do you have and what kind of wind ranges?

 

[oday630]

I can't put my finger on the articles that I read, but it had to do with sail shape. It was said that When on a beam or broad reach with a large genoa (150), in my case, the clew could either be poled out on the same side as the boom or the sheet could be attached to the end of the boom and sheeted in. This was supposed to give a better shape to the sail. There was a diagram showing how the wind could not stay attached when sheeted in normally, but when the clew was sheeted out away from the boat, the wind could stay attached because the sail has flatter shape.

This is for light wind sailing. Our winds range from 3 - 10 mph. I have a masthead rig with a 150% genoa. Not a deck sweeper. Standard main. Nothing special just a cruiser that I like to race at the club.

And yes, I do have Don's book and charts! The best investment I ever made for learning to sail.