Big Jib or Small Jib

[Don Guillette]

OK, we now know, thanks to RichH, Stu J (who uses tidal current to his advantage, which I never thought about due to where I sailed) and other listers, how much wind we need to move a 30' boat closehauled through the water from a dead calm.

Suppose you were luckier than I and had a 140 to 150 jib PLUS a 130 to 135 jib (all I had was a 135 almost deck sweeper. I had a 150 but it was too much for me to deal with singlehanded on a C30), WHICH jib would you use to increase your speed as the wind picked up to 3 to 5 steady knots and WHY would you make that selection??

Best answer receives a free SAIL TRIM CHART& QUICK REFERENCE. RichH is the judge and his decision is final!!

 

[Kermit]

I would choose the 135 because that's what Don had.

I win!

 

[weinie]

Whichever was the lightest so that the wind can most easily shape it nice and foil like to provide lift and more apparent wind.
I already have the book and chart so I'll take the million dollars please.

 

[Charles Erwin]

Well do I have a mast head or fractional rig and does it matter?

Otherwise the temptation is to conclude - the bigger sail the better. But - Gentry seems to favor which ever sail the wind moves across so that the whole sail plan is drawing without the breeze detaching.

So my answer is I have no idea which sail.

Instead I would trim so that the air moves super smooth over the entire set I have up and I would base that on all the tell tails flying smooth.

And if that setup became boring - which probably won't take long on 3 knts. day - I would try the other one.

Charles

 

[victorhoisington]

sailing with the 150 works well in 3-5 even up to 10 knots. A lot has to do with jib car setup as well. rather than shrink the sail, move the jib car forward and allow more twist at the top. this reduces heal and yet allows for the larger sail area.

 

[foolproof]

I think I would favor the smaller of the two...it is a smaller sail, thereby having a smaller chord, which SHOULD equate to slightly better performance in really light air. Of course, in this situation, we are talking about two different sails, both being trimmed correctly, right? I have a 145 on a furler, and have actually tried this once...couldn't tell a whole lot of difference in speed, but it seemed the furled version held what wind there was better than the unfurled sail. Weird, huh?

 

[hewebb]

[FONT=&quot]I only have a 25 but a 3 knot wind will not fill my 150 if not furled in some. [/FONT]

 

[356_Steve]

One thing that is not mentioned is sea state. If flat, then the larger sail will provide a better slot between it and the main, and thus more power to move the boat. If there is a sea state that causes the sail to collapse with wave motion, then the smaller would work better. Again, assuming both are trimmed properly.

BTW, I have a Hiunter 356 with a 155 jib that moves quite well with 1-1/2 to 2 knots of air in calm seas. Once moving, it stays moving down to about 1 to 1-1/2 knots. Quite an advantage when long distance racing and the other boats are turning circles.

 

[blockboy]

I think that the main point in this puzzle is what sail will have the best shape for the wind conditions. I believe the boat in this equation is a masthead rig. The sea state should be relatively calm, and no mention is being made of the point of sail. All things being equal, and assuming that the sails are of the same weight, the smaller sail should hold a better shape in the conditions. If the 150 was made of a lighter material, then that sail would hold its shape and be better for the conditions.

 

[RichH]

HINT & Repeat of Don's original conditions/constraint: ".... a 30' boat closehauled through the water from ...." ;-)

 

[Scotty C-M]

I think that Steve is on the right tack (a little pun, get it?). A few assumptions that the 150 is well cut and the fairleads are set appropriately. I trim so that the slot - between jib and main - is even from head to bottom. Looking forward to the "correct" answer.

 

[Benny17441]

I would stick with the 130 as it would provide better pointing ability. If the goal is to sail closed hauled the 130 will probably provide a higher velocity made good to destination. It is more efficient to tack with less loss of speed.

 

[sesmith]

OK I'll take a stab at it hopefully without sounding too dumb Close hauled, the smaller jib will do a little better in light wind because the larger headsail will backwind the main as there's not enough air flow on the main to overcome it. My 2 cents. Waiting patiently for the correct answer.

Scott

 

[justsomeguy]

OK I'll take a stab at it hopefully without sounding too dumb Close hauled, the smaller jib will do a little better in light wind because the larger headsail will backwind the main as there's not enough air flow on the main to overcome it. My 2 cents. Waiting patiently for the correct answer.

Scott

 

[FourPoints]

Hypothetically I would pick the lightest weight sail material for the jib, and if possible I would use the whisker pole to stabilize the clew. If the conditions are choppy or lots of powerboat wakes then I would prefer a smaller sail, but if it's flat water then the biggest sail I can get.

In real life, when I want to sail in wind that light, I pull out my 220 hanked on drifter, which will generally give me boat speed equal to apparent wind speed, and in some cases of really flat water, even exceed it.

 

[oday630]

I would choose the 135 almost deck sweeper. And have the crew sit on the low side to induce more heeling. I think the extra sail down low would help get the sail out more. As the wind picks up you can trim in, sit on the high side and win the race.

 

[RichH]

Some of you are getting close .... but not quite yet 'cigar time'.

Additional hint: think about how you tell that a sail is working 'correctly' ... and why and 'what's happening'.

 

[FourPoints]

Some of you are getting close .... but not quite yet 'cigar time'.

Additional hint: think about how you tell that a sail is working 'correctly' ... and why and 'what's happening'.

whatever sail you have up you should always be trimming to the tell tales. However in that light of air a smaller sail may not be able to fly the tell tales as there isn't enough air flow to overcome their weight, where a larger sail will catch more air and be able to fly them in some cases. You should have a 2nd set of tell tales further aft from the luff on the larger sails to help determine proper sail trim for the really light conditions.

Also, as previously mentioned, If properly rigged, a whisker pole can be incredibly useful in achieving proper sail trim (and not only in light air) as you can flatten the jib by stretching it out more to flatten the sail, thus allowing the little bit of air flow to remain attached.

 

[Don Guillette]

I was just thinking about this -- how would you newbie sailors like to conduct a sail trim seminar and have RichH, Stu J, Joe From San Diego, Scott, Alan and few others in the audience. I've conducted beginner seminars in Phoenix, Tucson, So Ca and for 165 small boat sailors a couple of years ago at Lake Havasu, AZ. Fortunately, none of those guys showed up!!

The closest I got to those guys was at a sailing club in Long Beach, Ca and it involved a question from an experienced sailor on draft position. He was setting me up but luckily, I was able to nail the question but had I missed it, it would have been a long night.

Suppose you just moved onto a dock and those guys are your neighbors and you think you're a pretty good sailor or it's your first day as a YC member and your trying to impress the club members that you've just met at the bar with your sail trim knowledge and it happens to be one of those guys.

Always tread lightly until you know who you're talking to!!!! If, during the conversation, they tell you the most important mainsail trim control is the topping lift, you're safe to proceed.

 

[Kermit]

Suppose you just moved onto a dock and those guys are your neighbors and you think you're a pretty good sailor or it's your first day as a YC member and your trying to impress the club members that you've just met at the bar with your sail trim knowledge and it happens to be one of those guys.

I would just tell them that's the sail that Don Guillette used. Everyone would be in awe that I knew what sails you have in inventory. Honestly, I don't need another sail trim chart since my First Mate got me the book for Christmas 2 years ago. But dang I stand by my original answer! (Especially since I have no idea what other answer to give.)