Best way to single hand dock to starboard with wind blowing you off:

[Tally Ho]

[QUOTE="Ted10028, post: 1814127, member: 163097" “, the geometry of my boat was all wrong, couldn't get the loop to hook over the cleat, too much time away from helm ,etc. my boat has a huge steering wheel that you can't get easily around when you need to get back to the controls.
[/QUOTE]

Ted, a few notes on how I do it, but as @dlochner said, you have to find what works on your boat….but one or 2 clarifications…

First, I do not use a mid-ship cleat,..for the exact reason you said…too much time needed to get to the midship cleat and to get a line on it. Instead,I put my loop over my cabin-top winch. I can almost reach that from behind my big helm wheel…but if not, I am 2 steps around my wheel toget back behind the helm (or I can steer a little from in front of the wheel).

When I am leaving the slip…same story. Start to back out…and get a little steering. Then step around the wheel, lift the loop off the cabin top winch, and hook it on my hook as I back up past it. The hose around the loop makes the loop pretty rigid, so I can hold the knot, and have 18” of loop to reach out to the hook.

My way may not work for you, or the pivot point needs to be adjusted (I still don’t like the midship cleat because it is too hard to it and get the line on…if you don’t h pave a cabin-top winch, maybe a primary on the coaming would work…but will change the geometry as you said.

Also, I do keep a boat hook ready to grab if for some reason I miss the loop…it has happened.…but if I am lucky, I can still grab it with the boTat hook and get it over the winch.

I do most of this in neutral as I am coming into the slip….BUT THE BEAUTY of this method is that once you have the loop over the winch, putting the boat in FWD idle will cause the boat to cozy up to the pier and stay there. Then you can leisurely get your bow and stern lines on…even in a cross wind. You may need to play with the amount. Of throttle and the rudder position some, and it will vary with the wind… but it does work.

Try this for fun… put a loop over the cabintop winch, put the boat in FWD and turn the rudder port and staboard and see if the boat stays on the pier…and if you can get the bow or stern to move closer or farther from the pier with the rudder. If there is a cross wind, all the better and your. boat will be straining against the lines….until you try this exercise. If it works, you will see the lines relax SS. The boat cosies up to the pier.

Final thought, be careful with the hook that extends over the pier…. I have caught my anchor on something similar backing out and that was a mess. My hook now is high enough that the loop is above the anchor, and the shaft is away from the edge of the pier enough that my. Anchor won’t catch on it If I backout that way. Trial and error on my part finding the best position…after pulling one of my prototype hooks off the end of the dock with my anchor

Keep thinking it through….the right solution for you and your boat is out there…

Greg

 

[dlochner]

[QUOTE="Ted10028, post: 1814127, member: 163097" “, the geometry of my boat was all wrong, couldn't get the loop to hook over the cleat, too much time away from helm ,etc. my boat has a huge steering wheel that you can't get easily around when you need to get back to the controls.

Ted, a few notes on how I do it, but as @dlochner said, you have to find what works on your boat….but one or 2 clarifications…

First, I do not use a mid-ship cleat,..for the exact reason you said…too much time needed to get to the midship cleat and to get a line on it. Instead,I put my loop over my cabin-top winch. I can almost reach that from behind my big helm wheel…but if not, I am 2 steps around my wheel toget back behind the helm (or I can steer a little from in front of the wheel).

When I am leaving the slip…same story. Start to back out…and get a little steering. Then step around the wheel, lift the loop off the cabin top winch, and hook it on my hook as I back up past it. The hose around the loop makes the loop pretty rigid, so I can hold the knot, and have 18” of loop to reach out to the hook.

My way may not work for you, or the pivot point needs to be adjusted (I still don’t like the midship cleat because it is too hard to it and get the line on…if you don’t h pave a cabin-top winch, maybe a primary on the coaming would work…but will change the geometry as you said.

Also, I do keep a boat hook ready to grab if for some reason I miss the loop…it has happened.…but if I am lucky, I can still grab it with the boTat hook and get it over the winch.

I do most of this in neutral as I am coming into the slip….BUT THE BEAUTY of this method is that once you have the loop over the winch, putting the boat in FWD idle will cause the boat to cozy up to the pier and stay there. Then you can leisurely get your bow and stern lines on…even in a cross wind. You may need to play with the amount. Of throttle and the rudder position some, and it will vary with the wind… but it does work.

Try this for fun… put a loop over the cabintop winch, put the boat in FWD and turn the rudder port and staboard and see if the boat stays on the pier…and if you can get the bow or stern to move closer or farther from the pier with the rudder. If there is a cross wind, all the better and your. boat will be straining against the lines….until you try this exercise. If it works, you will see the lines relax SS. The boat cosies up to the pier.

Final thought, be careful with the hook that extends over the pier…. I have caught my anchor on something similar backing out and that was a mess. My hook now is high enough that the loop is above the anchor, and the shaft is away from the edge of the pier enough that my. Anchor won’t catch on it If I backout that way. Trial and error on my part finding the best position…after pulling one of my prototype hooks off the end of the dock with my anchor

Keep thinking it through….the right solution for you and your boat is out there…

Greg
[/QUOTE]

This is a variation of the technique John Haries uses in the video I posted earlier. The midship cleat works, but has some limitations. Moving the connection point aft a bit sometimes yields better geometry for the spring line.

It is not necessary to stand behind the wheel when sailing or motoring the boat. When sailing it is often preferable to sit to one side for better visibility, that's the reason the wheel is so large. When backing it is more intuitive to stand in front of the wheel and look aft over the stern, the boat then steers like a car from the "front." Practicing this is really helpful when leaving the dock or when you will inevitably have to back down a long fair way and you get to see where you are going when backing. Likewise when docking it is fine to step to the side so there is easier access to the midship line and side deck.

 

[shemandr]

I used something like this except in SS to hold my spring line (Boat Stopper) while I was away from my slip. They should not face the boat.

Dock Line Holder | West Marine

Check out our Dock Line Holder and more from West Marine!

www.westmarine.com

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I leave my dock lines attached to the dock. I go forward a few feet, lean over the gunwale and grab the stern line, toss it over the winch, hop out while the boat is still in motion, walk up to the bow, wait for the stern line to become taught and the boat will usually bounce backwards. At that point the bow is closer to the dock and allows me to get the lines on the forward cleats. I'll then go back to the stern, attach the secondary line to the cleat and shut off the engines. I'll admit that if I come in too hot, it's very difficult, and sometimes impossible to secure the line around the winch. It's not the best method but it's worked more consistently than any other for me.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Have you seen the stern bridle technique? It worked for me once or twice.
Stern bridle (link is to Vimeo.com)

What happened the other times you tried it or is it something thats not spoken of?

 

[jdrutten]

What happened the other times you tried it or is it something thats not spoken of?

No one saw but the ducks, and they're not talking.

Seriously though, I may have had a missed approach the first time singlehanding it, but that's why I chose a calm day to practice. There's nothing like a calm day to make a fool of yourself. But I was redeemed on haul-out day last fall. I needed to stop at the pumpout dock before heading to the travelift. It was about 40 degrees, raining, and blowing 20 knots off the dock. But the trusty stern bridle saved the day (and my holding tank).

 

[Tally Ho]

As a last resort @Ted10028, get a wife, girlfriend, SO or a friend to sail with you and act as the “loop better”.

My wife won’t raise a finger to sail the boat, but I did train her to remove the loop off the winch when I back out of the slip and hang it on the hook…and when we return, she sits pretty on the cabin top, and as we come abreast of the hook and loop line, she leans over, grabs it and puts it on the winch….note she even has a boat hook at the ready



I probably sail solo 90% of the time, but it is nice to have a helper some times!

Greg

 

[Ted10028]

As a last resort @Ted10028, get a wife, girlfriend, SO or a friend to sail with you and act as the “loop better”.

My wife won’t raise a finger to sail the boat, but I did train her to remove the loop off the winch when I back out of the slip and hang it on the hook…and when we return, she sits pretty on the cabin top, and as we come abreast of the hook and loop line, she leans over, grabs it and puts it on the winch….note she even has a boat hook at the ready

View attachment 224071

I probably sail solo 90% of the time, but it is nice to have a helper some times!

Greg

Definitely agree!! But still determined to learn to do it solo so as not to always be dependent just to operate my own boat. Thank you for your time and patience!

Please consider this. On balance I think I'd rather come in at a steep angle for maximum steering control in high wind, hit the dock gently about midway, jump/step off bow, secure spring, leave helm hard to starboard and let the stern come in.

This has advantages it seems to me. With the bow area against the dock, forward progress is slowed or stopped, and to be blown off from that angle will take more time. Coming in straight my boat is zipping alone too fast it seem to me, and also, more vulnerable to be blown off quicker at both bow and stern. Downside is it takes a couple of extra seconds to get up to the bow to jump off.

I was able to set up bow and stern boat hooks perpendicular to boat so they can easy be pulled with me, when I jump off bow or stern, without affecting my balance. What do you think?

 

[Tom J]

Definitely agree!! But still determined to learn to do it solo so as not to always be dependent just to operate my own boat. Thank you for your time and patience!

Please consider this. On balance I think I'd rather come in at a steep angle for maximum steering control in high wind, hit the dock gently about midway, jump/step off bow, secure spring, leave helm hard to starboard and let the stern come in.

This has advantages it seems to me. With the bow area against the dock, forward progress is slowed or stopped, and to be blown off from that angle will take more time. Coming in straight my boat is zipping alone too fast it seem to me, and also, more vulnerable to be blown off quicker at both bow and stern. Downside is it takes a couple of extra seconds to get up to the bow to jump off.

I was able to set up bow and stern boat hooks perpendicular to boat so they can easy be pulled with me, when I jump off bow or stern, without affecting my balance. What do you think?

I think you are correct in saying you need to come at the dock at a steep angle when the wind is blowing you off. And I assume you mean a wind, not a breeze. Trying to motor slowly alongside while grabbing lines off pilings, etc. will have you too far off the dock in no time. I would suggest having a crew aboard and practicing the approach to the dock. There were quite a few times when I was cruising that my girlfriend and I were in the situation you describe. I was able to to determine a good approach speed and angle through repetition, and we knew we had to be quick securing the dock lines. And I wouldn't let her jump off the boat, she would step off quickly when the boat touched the dock. i admit I would jump off myself when I was younger, but that evolved into stepping off as I got older.
The technique of touching the bow to the dock worked for me when I had a smaller sailboat, a 23 foot O'Day. I would have the bowline and stern line draped over the bow rail and step onto the dock with the bowline after putting the gear in neutral. Then I could walk the stern into the dock with the stern line. Sometimes, the water would be so rough with the wind blowing, I'd leave the bow tied up and facing into the wind, then step back aboard later, over the bow rail. I've never tried this with my C310, though, so I'm not sure if it would take too long to get to the bow and off the boat.
Something to consider, too, is that your C320 has a higher freeboard than my C310, so getting off the boat safely is a bit tougher.

 

[azambella]

To mirror some of the other comment here, a mid-ship cleat will make most of your docking problems go away.
It's my go-to tool. Kiss up to the dock, reach over and attach the mid-ship line and most disasters are avoided.

RE; Jumping off, I have seen twice, a skipper frantically running down the dock to re-join his boat.

Nose it in, back it down, grab the cleat and Practice.....

Fair winds...

 

[Ted10028]

I think you are correct in saying you need to come at the dock at a steep angle when the wind is blowing you off. And I assume you mean a wind, not a breeze. Trying to motor slowly alongside while grabbing lines off pilings, etc. will have you too far off the dock in no time. I would suggest having a crew aboard and practicing the approach to the dock. There were quite a few times when I was cruising that my girlfriend and I were in the situation you describe. I was able to to determine a good approach speed and angle through repetition, and we knew we had to be quick securing the dock lines. And I wouldn't let her jump off the boat, she would step off quickly when the boat touched the dock. i admit I would jump off myself when I was younger, but that evolved into stepping off as I got older.
The technique of touching the bow to the dock worked for me when I had a smaller sailboat, a 23 foot O'Day. I would have the bowline and stern line draped over the bow rail and step onto the dock with the bowline after putting the gear in neutral. Then I could walk the stern into the dock with the stern line. Sometimes, the water would be so rough with the wind blowing, I'd leave the bow tied up and facing into the wind, then step back aboard later, over the bow rail. I've never tried this with my C310, though, so I'm not sure if it would take too long to get to the bow and off the boat.
Something to consider, too, is that your C320 has a higher freeboard than my C310, so getting off the boat safely is a bit tougher.

it seems you never wanted to use your propeller and rudder to guide the stern of the boat up against the dock?

 

[Tally Ho]

Definitely agree!! But still determined to learn to do it solo so as not to always be dependent just to operate my own boat. Thank you for your time and patience!

Please consider this. On balance I think I'd rather come in at a steep angle for maximum steering control in high wind, hit the dock gently about midway, jump/step off bow, secure spring, leave helm hard to starboard and let the stern come in.

This has advantages it seems to me. With the bow area against the dock, forward progress is slowed or stopped, and to be blown off from that angle will take more time. Coming in straight my boat is zipping alone too fast it seem to me, and also, more vulnerable to be blown off quicker at both bow and stern. Downside is it takes a couple of extra seconds to get up to the bow to jump off.

I was able to set up bow and stern boat hooks perpendicular to boat so they can easy be pulled with me, when I jump off bow or stern, without affecting my balance. What do you think?

I understand the idea of coming into the slip at an angle, bow up to the finger as you try to push the stern around to the pier. In a very strong cross wind, that may the only way to get close to the finger. in my slip, I have a large power boat for a slip mate, and he hangs out into the fairway a bit…so I dont have a lot of room to “cut the corner”.

I have seen a You-tube guy intentionally put the bow of his boat into the main part of the dock…and then he used his rudder and FWD thrust to keep the stern in place. He even had a bumper of some kind on his home dock, and something he could tie onto the bow when he was cruising. Once his bow is against the dock, and the Fwd thrust keeping him in place, he hops off and ties up the lines. Then shuts the engine down. I have considered this method myself for a very strong cross wind or if I missed my docking loop.

One of my worst docking days was a day I went out solo, and while I was out, winds built to 30kts. The sail was great, but the whole time Imwas worrying about returning to the dock in a 30 knot crosswind. Thankfully I had the foresight to put some fenders on my STB side in case things went bad with the docking…. I often get a hand from some dock rats that sit on the dock and drink all day…so I was really hoping that they were around that day…nope.

As I approached the dock, with my neighbors power boat on my STB side, I missed the loop and could not get it with my boat hook…now what? I reversed the prop to slow the boat down and then slowly blew sideways in the slip until I came to rest against the neighbors boat. The fenders I put out did their job and all was well.

The only thing about your plan that is concerning to me is the jumping off part….especially at the bow….over life lines and on the highest part of the boat. I am fairly spry for a 62 YO, but on Tally Ho, I only get off the boat at the gates.

I am on the south end of Lake Michigan, so a north wind can create very big waves….and a north wind is my cross wind for docking…So on a really bad north wind day, I find excuses to work on the boat instead of taking her out…

Lastly, I have considered bailing out into a different slip when I return to a horrible cross wind…I keep my eyes open for slips that would make good landing spots (finger pier on the opposite side of my normal slip) where I could dock in an emergency. I haven’t had to do that yet, but it gives me options if needed.

I can’t wait to get Tally Ho back in the water in a few weeks!

Greg

 

[Ted10028]

I understand the idea of coming into the slip at an angle, bow up to the finger as you try to push the stern around to the pier. In a very strong cross wind, that may the only way to get close to the finger. in my slip, I have a large power boat for a slip mate, and he hangs out into the fairway a bit…so I dont have a lot of room to “cut the corner”.

I have seen a You-tube guy intentionally put the bow of his boat into the main part of the dock…and then he used his rudder and FWD thrust to keep the stern in place. He even had a bumper of some kind on his home dock, and something he could tie onto the bow when he was cruising. Once his bow is against the dock, and the Fwd thrust keeping him in place, he hops off and ties up the lines. Then shuts the engine down. I have considered this method myself for a very strong cross wind or if I missed my docking loop.

One of my worst docking days was a day I went out solo, and while I was out, winds built to 30kts. The sail was great, but the whole time Imwas worrying about returning to the dock in a 30 knot crosswind. Thankfully I had the foresight to put some fenders on my STB side in case things went bad with the docking…. I often get a hand from some dock rats that sit on the dock and drink all day…so I was really hoping that they were around that day…nope.

As I approached the dock, with my neighbors power boat on my STB side, I missed the loop and could not get it with my boat hook…now what? I reversed the prop to slow the boat down and then slowly blew sideways in the slip until I came to rest against the neighbors boat. The fenders I put out did their job and all was well.

The only thing about your plan that is concerning to me is the jumping off part….especially at the bow….over life lines and on the highest part of the boat. I am fairly spry for a 62 YO, but on Tally Ho, I only get off the boat at the gates.

I am on the south end of Lake Michigan, so a north wind can create very big waves….and a north wind is my cross wind for docking…So on a really bad north wind day, I find excuses to work on the boat instead of taking her out…

Lastly, I have considered bailing out into a different slip when I return to a horrible cross wind…I keep my eyes open for slips that would make good landing spots (finger pier on the opposite side of my normal slip) where I could dock in an emergency. I haven’t had to do that yet, but it gives me options if needed.

I can’t wait to get Tally Ho back in the water in a few weeks!

Greg

thanks again for the great information. I may be too optimistic given that I don't have a neighbor on my port side yet. also , I have a gate up front apparently because the previous owner wanted that option too. I have one bumper on my port side. I'm going to pick up 2 more right away!

 

[BrianQ]

my boat has a huge steering wheel that you can't get easily around when you need to get back to the controls.

Have you considered practicing controlling the boat from in front of or beside the wheel? A lot of Captians, myself included, stand forward of the wheel while they back into the slip. I know you're not backing in but there is nothing that says you must be behind the wheel, especially if getting around it quickly is difficult.

In an earlier post you said "it's hard to throw rope like Roy Rogers". You don't need to lasso a cleat or piling. With a sufficiently long enough line you can throw the bulk of it past a dock cleat or over a piling then quickly pull in the slack. Just make sure you securely fasten one end and hold onto the other until you make it secure. Then you can leisurely add additional lines as needed.

 

[Ted10028]

Have you considered practicing controlling the boat from in front of or beside the wheel? A lot of Captians, myself included, stand forward of the wheel while they back into the slip. I know you're not backing in but there is nothing that says you must be behind the wheel, especially if getting around it quickly is difficult.

In an earlier post you said "it's hard to throw rope like Roy Rogers". You don't need to lasso a cleat or piling. With a sufficiently long enough line you can throw the bulk of it past a dock cleat or over a piling then quickly pull in the slack. Just make sure you securely fasten one end and hold onto the other until you make it secure. Then you can leisurely add additional lines as needed.

not sure what you mean when you say throw the bulk of it past the dock cleat. how do you reliably get it around the cleat?

 

[BrianQ]

you throw it past the dock cleat then pull it taught. The line will the go from the boat to the opposite side of the dock cleat and back to the boat. That secures the boat enough to then properly fasten and necessary dock lines.

As the boat drifts off the dock you can pull it back using the line you just threw. It is much easier to throw a line past a cleat than to lasso one.

 

[Tally Ho]

I was reading Practical Sailor today and there was an article about solo sailing. One of the issues discussed was docking….

The author, Roland Stockham, likes to use the method of coming alongside the finger and dropping a line over the dock cleat, which is secured to a mid-ship cleat, and using that as a spring line…very similar to my docking loop technique. But he admits that a strong cross wind or current blowing you off the finger is a challenge.

Drew Frye commented “Docking single handed can be a real trial. One of the most important traits of a singlehander is to know his limits, and in that vein, I have often chosen to anchor out if the combination of wind and tide seemed too risky. How quickly can you move about the boat if things go a little sideways? It’s not worth damaging someone else’s boat, for example, and I can probably move into that slip tomorrow, when the weather moderates, or maybe just after the tide changes. Another alternative can be to request a different slip that is more manageable, for example, an easily accessed bulkhead, or a more protected area of the marina.”

In some cases, anchoring out, using an alternative slip, or just saying “ not going out today” are all acceptable decisions.

Greg

 

[Ted10028]

you throw it past the dock cleat then pull it taught. The line will the go from the boat to the opposite side of the dock cleat and back to the boat. That secures the boat enough to then properly fasten and necessary dock lines.

As the boat drifts off the dock you can pull it back using the line you just threw. It is much easier to throw a line past a cleat than to lasso one.

i'll try it but with my luck I think half the time id miss the cleat and then go to using a boat hook.

 

[Tally Ho]

i'll try it but with my luck I think half the time id miss the cleat and then go to using a boat hook.

My issue with this method (self-inflicted) is that I already have a few lines on that dock cleat, so I am concerned with not “catching” the cleat. I haven’t tried it, so maybe I should give it a go and see if it reliably catches.

Theoretically, I could use the same method to hold the boat as I throw off the lines to leave…and then “flip the spring” off the cleat as I back out….but I would want to practice that move as well! Embarrassing to have the boat lurch because the line was still over the cleat….speaking from experience when I forgot to remove one of the spring lines.

Greg

 

[kappykaplan]

A lot of Captains, myself included, stand forward of the wheel while they back into the slip.