Best 30-32 ft performance cruiser - REPOST
- Thread starter Skipper
- Start date
I don't find this interior to be one of great comfort. It is nice and functional. I have crewed on a J 95, a 27, and a 34 and was very impressed by the boats. Nothing like reaching at 12 knots and their sailing manners are fantastic. I like them, but I would not call it a comfortable boat for cruising. I also found the cockpits less than ideal for lounging and cruising long distances. But, then, the boat was not designed with that in mind. I am not knocking J boats. They are great boats. For my uses, I like more interior space and more comfort and am willing to get less performance for that.Hmmm. Everyone will have their own definition of 'performance', but I can't get yours. Your 30 foot Bristol shares a PHRF number with a bunch of very ordinary 22 foot boats.
As for J's, here is the 'camping' interior of a J/30 that will run circles (no disrespect intended) around you.
Quite subtle and clever. Unfortunately, you have no concept of the original discussion topic.
I never said my boat was the best. I said I found the one I was looking for. After others had said that it didn't exist.
Many times is life, there are know-it-alls and naysayers. I like to show that steady work and perseverance will enable finding precisely what one is looking for, even with the floating curmudgeons telling them they can't.
Yes!I always figured you only got that Capri to race me to Avalon and Scooter wasn't fast enough.
And Scooter was a bucking bronco in the swells and chop. (Cat 250)
I sure would like to sail with you to Avalon today. But, alas, I am stuck here in refrigerated prison.
Oh, the condescension of the PHRF crowd.
The original topic was not about PHRF. I mentioned it in a single sentence, and somehow that becomes the entire topic.
I don't care about PHRF. I merely mentioned it to show that I had looked at providing a reference to one part of the topic, but couldn't find a comprehensive list.
I.....don't....race. I wanted the speed, not necessarily the entirety of racing aspects.
According to you PHRFers, nobody on a lesser-rated vessel would ever outrun greater-rated vessels.
I'm reminded of the guy who looked at another boat a mile across the water and proclaims: "Yeah, I was out-pointing him by 10 degrees!"
It's one thing to try and fool others, but fooling yourself?????
It's one thing to try and fool others, but fooling yourself?????
Just trying to help you out Skip. You said you COULDN'T FIND a consistent PHRF number for your boat. It took a while to realize you meant you couldn't find a number that you liked.
Just trying to also put a little perspective to your comment that the Bristol was EVEN FASTER than the Capri 26. It should be. Even the standard rig Bristol 29.9 rates 15 sec/mile FASTER than a Capri 26. The Capri 26 is not particularly fast (the Capri 25 was a fast boat). That doesn't alter the fact that the Bristol 29.9 and the Capri 26 are both nice boats - enjoy!
BTW: regarding te J-30 - Everyone is entitled to determine his own level of comfort. The J-30 is not a pure racer in the same sense as the J-24, J27, J29 or certainly the later versions. The J-30, however, is a great performer with decent accommodation much like designs coming of the boards today as the latest thing in performance cruisers - See Harbor 30, C&C, others.
Just trying to also put a little perspective to your comment that the Bristol was EVEN FASTER than the Capri 26. It should be. Even the standard rig Bristol 29.9 rates 15 sec/mile FASTER than a Capri 26. The Capri 26 is not particularly fast (the Capri 25 was a fast boat). That doesn't alter the fact that the Bristol 29.9 and the Capri 26 are both nice boats - enjoy!
BTW: regarding te J-30 - Everyone is entitled to determine his own level of comfort. The J-30 is not a pure racer in the same sense as the J-24, J27, J29 or certainly the later versions. The J-30, however, is a great performer with decent accommodation much like designs coming of the boards today as the latest thing in performance cruisers - See Harbor 30, C&C, others.
I think there are two discussions going on here. One we have the group that state PHRF is the only way to go (paraphrased). The other group is that group saying comfort and speed is essential but one gives in to the other. That is my take on this conversation.
I do not have a fast boat. It is a boat designed for two worlds, sailing and powering. So obviously one outperforms the other, or both are lacking. Makes no difference which is which. There are boat that out perform me, but I don't care. Really I don't. I also see boats that are more comfortable than mine. Now that I do care about. In a way that is.
My boat has standing headroom. A lot of boats my size do not. My boat has a nice queen size aft berth. Very few boats my size do not. So with that in mind, my boat is what I like regardless of PHRF.
Now that being said, I would like to upgrade to a boat that is both comfortable and moves effortlessly in the water. To me, it sounds like Skipper was looking for the same thing and found it, yet there are some here who are beating him up for some reason or another.
Cruiser and racers are not the only people sailing. Personally I think racing is nothing more than egos with tape measures to see who has the biggest boom. LOL
Really, I think Skipper has found what he was looking for, and for that, we should pat him on the back and say, "well done".
Skipper, may my signature apply to your sailing days.
I do not have a fast boat. It is a boat designed for two worlds, sailing and powering. So obviously one outperforms the other, or both are lacking. Makes no difference which is which. There are boat that out perform me, but I don't care. Really I don't. I also see boats that are more comfortable than mine. Now that I do care about. In a way that is.
My boat has standing headroom. A lot of boats my size do not. My boat has a nice queen size aft berth. Very few boats my size do not. So with that in mind, my boat is what I like regardless of PHRF.
Now that being said, I would like to upgrade to a boat that is both comfortable and moves effortlessly in the water. To me, it sounds like Skipper was looking for the same thing and found it, yet there are some here who are beating him up for some reason or another.
Cruiser and racers are not the only people sailing. Personally I think racing is nothing more than egos with tape measures to see who has the biggest boom. LOL
Really, I think Skipper has found what he was looking for, and for that, we should pat him on the back and say, "well done".
Skipper, may my signature apply to your sailing days.
Good one. Personally, I do both and enjoy them for different reasons. I've always thought of racing as cruising with a defined agenda. :dance:
Agree with you that the OP found "HIS" boat. We found ours, too.
I don't know what this means.
But I'll take a guess, and then quote Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge: "You sound like a man of experience"
On the Chesapeake near Annapolis, people sail out of a handful of harbors, usually following the wind across the bay. In the summer, there are a lot of boats, and some often ride abeam on the same course. I pass them. It's that simple. This is not boasting; it's a point of reference. I would dread to doddle about in a boat that needed Force 4 to get going, as I am a sailor, and long to sail.
You seem to be drawing some negative comments on your post. Perhaps the update about you founding your ideal boat was obscured by what seemed to be some gloating on your part toward those that previously may have expressed some doubt about there being such boat. In addition you make a statement challenging the "racing faction" about the accuracy of their handicap rating. I have owned masthead rigs with high aspect ratio sails and know that they do not point well and are not swift to tack with their large genoas. They tend to favor long tacks on a beam reach and with a boat that is well constructed and comfortable it can make for a good fast cruiser.
OK, my take.
Your Posts are full of opinionated boasts, but you do not accept fact-based counters to them.
If you create a topic saying you have FOUND the 'Best 30-32 ft performance cruiser', you are going to get interest.
You brought up PHRF.
Your boat shares a PHRF number with many much smaller boats. If you claim that the PHRF number for the boat is wrong, you will get interest in that as well. PHRF numbers are generally very well founded.
You brought up fast.
'Fast' is NOT a measure of performance. ANY boat will sail at it max hull speed on a reach in enough breeze. Fast is a pure function of waterline length. Longer boats are 'faster'. It does not make them better performing. Because it is longer, your boat is 'faster' than my old First 235, which was 22 feet long. But they share the same PHRF rating. I'll get you guess which one I would say is better performing.
Most people accept that the PHRF rating of a boat is a good measure of performance. It's OK if you do not, but be will to accept differing opinion (especially if they are backed up with actual data) of a public internet forum.
Your Posts are full of opinionated boasts, but you do not accept fact-based counters to them.
If you create a topic saying you have FOUND the 'Best 30-32 ft performance cruiser', you are going to get interest.
You brought up PHRF.
Your boat shares a PHRF number with many much smaller boats. If you claim that the PHRF number for the boat is wrong, you will get interest in that as well. PHRF numbers are generally very well founded.
You brought up fast.
'Fast' is NOT a measure of performance. ANY boat will sail at it max hull speed on a reach in enough breeze. Fast is a pure function of waterline length. Longer boats are 'faster'. It does not make them better performing. Because it is longer, your boat is 'faster' than my old First 235, which was 22 feet long. But they share the same PHRF rating. I'll get you guess which one I would say is better performing.
Most people accept that the PHRF rating of a boat is a good measure of performance. It's OK if you do not, but be will to accept differing opinion (especially if they are backed up with actual data) of a public internet forum.
Jackdaw, I brought up J Boats as another option for a smaller, capable, fast cruiser. Higgs is the poster who contends that a J Boat is "camping" - the original poster, Skipper actually considered a J/32.
As for PHRF, in our years of boat ownership we've owned boats that rated from 108 to 225. All things considered, I'd rather have a boat that rates nearer 100 than one that rates closer to 200. And in terms of room and comfort and space, we have that. It's called a house.
Thank you for that clarification. I'll change my post.
I agree, fast is good. Out First 36.7 rates 75 and is very comfortable. A bit smaller downstairs than a same-size Oceanis, but the time difference to a given destination is remarkable. Speed is it's own virtue.
Yes. I gloated a little. Sorry. But I did explain why. Everyone should gloat to naysayers.
Yes. I may have made the error of not fully inderstanding the rating system (since I don't race), and assumed that as there were extremely few examples and my experience contrasted with the ratings, that the averages were scewed. -This still may have some validity-. Again, I mentioned PHRF only as a reference point that I was unsure of. I never should have metioned it, for others who are devoted to such numbers decided it would be a good idea to crap all over it.
Another poster noted that PHRF ratings include pointing ability (paraphrase), a feature that I had discarded, and explained heavily as to why.
Again, I am utterly unconcerned about PHRF. I specifically stated "light air speed". And that "I don't race". I am out of breath repeating myself.
They are not opinions. They are exactly fact based. I have sailed the thing every week (with weather) for over 2 years. I've also sailed on many other boats. Everything I have said about the silly thing is based on facts IE: wind speed, correlating water speed, other boats on the water, etc. You put PHRF as "fact based" instead of the reality of sailing. These are not boasts, they are gloats
as another pointed out. I found it, after it was said I couldn't.I never said that. You read it in. I said I found the one I was looking for. 'Best 30-32 ft performance cruiser' was the header to obtain opinions for such a purchase, so that I could narrow the field when combined with my own experience. God forbid I look for advise on a sailing board.
I should not have. Because nobody understands why. Except one guy earlier.
I said "light air performance". I know what fast is, and the whole hull speed analysis. The boat is faster than most vs wind speed. That is a (repeated) clarification, not a boast. Just clarifying the clarification.
Stu, as well he should.
The only purpose for PHRF is to equalize ALL boats during a race so everyone has a chance of winning, regardless of size and performance of boat. Take an Americas AC72 and pit it against a Sunfish. The Sunfish could win the race based off of PHRF. However, it does not prove the Sunfish to be better than the AC72.
One more comparison. Say we play golf. You have a handicap of 0 and I have a handicap of 18. If you par every hole and I boggy 17 holes and par one hole, I win.
OK... before you go and beat me up, it was only an example of the absurdity of the PHRF system. PHRF is not going to tell you how well your Atlantic crossing will do, unless you are racing another boat. Even then it may tell you that you were behind by a day, but beat the other boat by 4 seconds.
The only purpose for PHRF is to equalize ALL boats during a race so everyone has a chance of winning, regardless of size and performance of boat. Take an Americas AC72 and pit it against a Sunfish. The Sunfish could win the race based off of PHRF. However, it does not prove the Sunfish to be better than the AC72.
One more comparison. Say we play golf. You have a handicap of 0 and I have a handicap of 18. If you par every hole and I boggy 17 holes and par one hole, I win.
OK... before you go and beat me up, it was only an example of the absurdity of the PHRF system. PHRF is not going to tell you how well your Atlantic crossing will do, unless you are racing another boat. Even then it may tell you that you were behind by a day, but beat the other boat by 4 seconds.