Dear Beneteau Owners Past and Present, I am interested in finding ALL of you out there that have had a difficult time buying a new Beneteau boat in the US - either (1) you tried to buy a Beneteau, but decided not to because of either the dealer, or Beneteau SA or (2) you purchased a boat and had a terrible experience with warranty issues. I am not trying to drum up a class action lawsuit, but I do want to hear all the 'horror stories' so that in an article(s) I am writing I will have as many real world examples of systematic brand destruction as possible. After all, Beneteau is a GREAT brand, but as I know many have also experienced, it is being ruined by management arrogance, complacency and a hhly corrupted dealer network that is encouraged to manipulate the market and fix the pricing through lack of transparency and the CSI program. So you may be asking - Who is this guy and why should anyone write to him? I am a Beneteau Biggot and love the design, the brand and the feeling of these boats. I have been sailing Beneteaus for over 20 years. My first experience of buying a new Beneteau was torture and even after trips to France to the HQ in 2005 and to see 'my' custom configured boat on the production line in Marion I was forced by the dealer to dissolve the contract due or take the riss associated with their commissioning process ‘in my wallet’. Yes, they can screw up a bottom job! I want the shareholders of Chantiers Beneteau S.A. to know what is going on here in the US and how the management is killing great product quality and a great name. I intend to publish the events of my failed purchase and the unfathomable attitude of dealer and manufacturer and I intend for other families to not waste their time and money in a process designed to make the consumer capitulate. I will in time expose the dirty little secrets I uncovered in how the market is 'rigged' against all those that just want to get sailing in a well designed boat. If you have any stories and want to get anything off your chest, let me help you. I'll work with all respondents, keep confidentialities and protect identities as requested. Please send me your Beneteau ‘frustration story’ and/or Beneteau nightmare (big, or small) to gtsusa@yahoo.com. Regards and thank you in advance for contributing to a process to protect the Beneteau brand and your investment! A Beneteau Biggot.
- Status
Your E-mail?
You didn't give your email or post office address. I don't think anyone will reply using this forum's public response, where they could end up sued for slander.
You didn't give your email or post office address. I don't think anyone will reply using this forum's public response, where they could end up sued for slander.
With all due respect
With all due respect, I found the Beneteau experience as painless as I could expect in buying ANY boat. Without question, there are minor issues that many of us on the 393 site have compiled, but I would imagine that a similar list could be compiled from any group of owners of ANY production boat. I had a rather positive experience with my dealer, Beneteau delivered my boat on schedule as ordered, and overall, I am happy with the bang for the buck. I have had great support from the folks at the factory when seeking assistance after the sale. Sorry, no support for your bad experience here.
With all due respect, I found the Beneteau experience as painless as I could expect in buying ANY boat. Without question, there are minor issues that many of us on the 393 site have compiled, but I would imagine that a similar list could be compiled from any group of owners of ANY production boat. I had a rather positive experience with my dealer, Beneteau delivered my boat on schedule as ordered, and overall, I am happy with the bang for the buck. I have had great support from the folks at the factory when seeking assistance after the sale. Sorry, no support for your bad experience here.
Texoma - Sailboat Mike?
Joe at Texoma...if your boat a Beneteau in N. Texas you would have been dealing with SailBoat Mike. He's a good guy and very, very knowledgable. He's one of the best, but since's Loe's he had to become part of the Sea Lake group of the Gulf... The guy wants emails to gtsusa@yahoo.com based on his initial message. Negative via this site would be ugly.
Joe at Texoma...if your boat a Beneteau in N. Texas you would have been dealing with SailBoat Mike. He's a good guy and very, very knowledgable. He's one of the best, but since's Loe's he had to become part of the Sea Lake group of the Gulf... The guy wants emails to gtsusa@yahoo.com based on his initial message. Negative via this site would be ugly.
opinion not shared
I own a 2004 Beneteau 323, and am pleased with not only the quality of the boat and its equipment, but also with the overall experience with my dealer. I would purchase another boat from my dealer in a heartbeat. The few contacts I have had directly with Beneteau either by telephone or by email, have been answered promptly and satisfactorily. the documentation delivered with the boat ( a binder full of it) was more than sufficient to help solve any problem that could have arisen.) I bought my boat as a stock boat, so there wasn't any communication with the factory about changes, etc, which can create problems for certain. Further, the brand reputation around here seems to be very positive even amongst owners of other brands. Sorry that I don't share your opinion.
I own a 2004 Beneteau 323, and am pleased with not only the quality of the boat and its equipment, but also with the overall experience with my dealer. I would purchase another boat from my dealer in a heartbeat. The few contacts I have had directly with Beneteau either by telephone or by email, have been answered promptly and satisfactorily. the documentation delivered with the boat ( a binder full of it) was more than sufficient to help solve any problem that could have arisen.) I bought my boat as a stock boat, so there wasn't any communication with the factory about changes, etc, which can create problems for certain. Further, the brand reputation around here seems to be very positive even amongst owners of other brands. Sorry that I don't share your opinion.
What a twit!!
You sound like the customer from hell. I'll bet the folks at Beneteau wish they'd never met you. Personally, I've never had any important issue with either the dealer or Beneteau. In fact, the people at Beneteau have bent over backwards to provide help when needed. You strike me as a kind of perfectionist with a serious case of buyers remorse. In order to justify your purchase, you obsess to the point of distraction, only to find out your beautiful fantasy anchored in the South Pacific is just another boat floating in moderately dirty water with birds craping all over it. The only answer for you is to build your own darn boat!
You sound like the customer from hell. I'll bet the folks at Beneteau wish they'd never met you. Personally, I've never had any important issue with either the dealer or Beneteau. In fact, the people at Beneteau have bent over backwards to provide help when needed. You strike me as a kind of perfectionist with a serious case of buyers remorse. In order to justify your purchase, you obsess to the point of distraction, only to find out your beautiful fantasy anchored in the South Pacific is just another boat floating in moderately dirty water with birds craping all over it. The only answer for you is to build your own darn boat!
Anger Management
Randall, I suspect you are either a 3rd party broker, a dealer, or work for Beneteau in some way to offer such an unwarranted rant. I am glad for you that the world is perfect. For everyone else there is 1) Walgreens, or 2) making a record of the issues that exist in the US Beneteau channel. Although the original message went up only hours ago I want to thank all those that wrote emails today. I am amazed at the stories coming in from people that unlike Randall have real issues and concerns over the brand and how they have been treated. It seems there are a lot of 'twits' out there after all. Please keep the emails coming. GTSUSA
Randall, I suspect you are either a 3rd party broker, a dealer, or work for Beneteau in some way to offer such an unwarranted rant. I am glad for you that the world is perfect. For everyone else there is 1) Walgreens, or 2) making a record of the issues that exist in the US Beneteau channel. Although the original message went up only hours ago I want to thank all those that wrote emails today. I am amazed at the stories coming in from people that unlike Randall have real issues and concerns over the brand and how they have been treated. It seems there are a lot of 'twits' out there after all. Please keep the emails coming. GTSUSA
Actually.....
...none of the above. And I'm not angry, I'm laughing. Imagine, a deliberate conspiracy to make customers in the U.S. unhappy.
...none of the above. And I'm not angry, I'm laughing. Imagine, a deliberate conspiracy to make customers in the U.S. unhappy.
a one percenter!
Even the very best companies with the highest standards for customer service can have difficulies from time to time. And it always happens to a certian type of customer, some companies have a tongue-in-cheek name for them... the 1% ers. Seems like the 1% er customers not only attract problems like a magnet, they can never be satisfied no matter what. Sounds like this is one of those situations. My guess is that you have problems with most everything that you have ever purchased and most of the people that you deal with. If that sounds familiar maybe that it is the 1%er syndrome.
Even the very best companies with the highest standards for customer service can have difficulies from time to time. And it always happens to a certian type of customer, some companies have a tongue-in-cheek name for them... the 1% ers. Seems like the 1% er customers not only attract problems like a magnet, they can never be satisfied no matter what. Sounds like this is one of those situations. My guess is that you have problems with most everything that you have ever purchased and most of the people that you deal with. If that sounds familiar maybe that it is the 1%er syndrome.
Give me the fact first..!!
I have a problem with a post like this in a public forum where a person can attack a company without details of what happened. I think before you stir up any more people, please post the full story of what has happened and give the dealer and B the chance to respond. Then let the tide of public opinion be heard. I am not attached to B or any dealership. I do own a F345 that I bought new. This kind of post just rubs me wrong. Give me the facts.
I have a problem with a post like this in a public forum where a person can attack a company without details of what happened. I think before you stir up any more people, please post the full story of what has happened and give the dealer and B the chance to respond. Then let the tide of public opinion be heard. I am not attached to B or any dealership. I do own a F345 that I bought new. This kind of post just rubs me wrong. Give me the facts.
Fair Statement O_Salt
O_Salt you have a valid point. It would be great to have shared all the facts, but that will have to wait just a little while longer. The full facts will be published and open for all to see with copies of emails, spreadsheets, photos and many other details along the quest to obtain a new Beneteau. Please be patient and in time you will be given a full website - from which you can draw your own conclusions. I was posting this discussion as much as anything to request other stories and experiences. Of course people are happy, but clearly there are others that suffer in silence. Please understand the intent was not to stir people up, but have a call to action. It was not to stir up what seem like personal attacks and name calling, but to investigate patterns of poor performance and ways for things to improve for the nex-gen buyers out there. Yes, Marion is full, but they could be a lot busier if certain things change. Beneteau is too important a brand to have it corrupted by a very ‘comfortable’ relationship between Marion and the US dealers. I would like to share one common frustration that people are reporting. It seems that there are others that have also experienced what one person called "the regional choke hold". This is when dealers refuse to bid across regional lines. This is when the Beneteau CSI program is used as a weapon to choke down free-market mechanisms by penalizing dealers hard on their CSI scores which mean real money. This was typical in the old car dealership world and was ruled illegal as it really a way that a manufacturer can drive business from flowing freely to the dealers that offer the best service - in short creating monopolies and 'binding' the customer to a region. If you want a new Beneteau, guess what, you have to buy from ‘your’ regional dealer - based on your home address - not your future/intended cruising area. Remember, the CSI money factor and that you cannot take your Beneteau in to any dealer to get warranty work done just like you can your car! Furthermore, the dealer can sell the boat at any price and is not obligated to disclose the MSRP - and have you ever tried to obtain a true MSRP from Marion? It is like getting blood from a stone because they have a vested interest in the 'choke hold’. This total lack of transparency is the very thing that allows dealers to play the games they do. For example, 'my' dealer represented the MSRP of a base 393 was $174,000. So how do I check that when you can review a magazine online (albeit 18 months old) and the price was around $148,000? The fact is that the base boat at 2005 prices is pennies over $160,000 – when Beneteau in Marion finally provided the numbers and when challenged hard to explain why a magazine says something and the dealer says another with such a delta So O_Salt let me throw out a question or two for you and others to ponder. Would it not be better for prospective buyers to be able to see an MSRP just as you do when you buy a car and you can build and configure your own boat just like you would with a car? Wouldn’t we all be served better when we have true freedom to buy our Beneteau from any dealer in the US knowing that we (not Beneteau or protected dealers) are making the decision from which dealer based on trust, service, our desired or likely cruising grounds, or some other sound reason like ‘gosh I’d really like to do business with them’ factor just as most people do with other high ticket items? And while you consider these questions, let me again share an experience of a fellow sailor trapped in the same Beneteau region as myself. He purchased a large First not very long ago and spent a lot of money with the dealer. He went through commissioning and added systems and enjoyed the boat. Then one day in a call asking how one of his systems worked he was told in very clear terms by the service team that he was not allowed to ask any more questions. Flawed he asked the embarrassed technician what had happened to provoke this situation. The technician explained that while he bought the boat a few months before he couldn’t keep calling and taking up the staff’s time with questions about the boat. The owner of the regional dealership had told everyone in his company that the owner of the First was asking too many questions that could not be billed back to Beneteau warranty and therefore he was a money loser. Think how that sounds to a guy who has spent close to $300,000 on his boat and in reality he took very little time (and I can assure Liam that he is also not a 1%er) and then ask yourself how that is good service and helping promote the Beneteau brand. Already the owner is eyeing up his next boat and that $400,000 budget will NOT be going on Beneteau product! These are not isolated incidents from a bunch of wining old woman chewing over Beneteau, but professionals who have been shocked by how they have been treated and are left wondering how this can be allowed to happen unchecked. So, in closing O_Salt I hope this response gives you and others reading it a bit more meat on the bone to consider. I appreciate your patience as the other ‘specifics and facts’ you are looking for are built in a new website that can support more than text. At least now you can perhaps appreciate where I am coming from in this call to action for those that have received service that does not fit the Beneteau brand. Thanks to all that have written to me so far. Beneteau Biggot PS. What I find interesting are the emails from people that did NOT buy a new Beneteau boat because of how they had been treated by certain dealers! There are regional/dealer centric patterns emerging also.
O_Salt you have a valid point. It would be great to have shared all the facts, but that will have to wait just a little while longer. The full facts will be published and open for all to see with copies of emails, spreadsheets, photos and many other details along the quest to obtain a new Beneteau. Please be patient and in time you will be given a full website - from which you can draw your own conclusions. I was posting this discussion as much as anything to request other stories and experiences. Of course people are happy, but clearly there are others that suffer in silence. Please understand the intent was not to stir people up, but have a call to action. It was not to stir up what seem like personal attacks and name calling, but to investigate patterns of poor performance and ways for things to improve for the nex-gen buyers out there. Yes, Marion is full, but they could be a lot busier if certain things change. Beneteau is too important a brand to have it corrupted by a very ‘comfortable’ relationship between Marion and the US dealers. I would like to share one common frustration that people are reporting. It seems that there are others that have also experienced what one person called "the regional choke hold". This is when dealers refuse to bid across regional lines. This is when the Beneteau CSI program is used as a weapon to choke down free-market mechanisms by penalizing dealers hard on their CSI scores which mean real money. This was typical in the old car dealership world and was ruled illegal as it really a way that a manufacturer can drive business from flowing freely to the dealers that offer the best service - in short creating monopolies and 'binding' the customer to a region. If you want a new Beneteau, guess what, you have to buy from ‘your’ regional dealer - based on your home address - not your future/intended cruising area. Remember, the CSI money factor and that you cannot take your Beneteau in to any dealer to get warranty work done just like you can your car! Furthermore, the dealer can sell the boat at any price and is not obligated to disclose the MSRP - and have you ever tried to obtain a true MSRP from Marion? It is like getting blood from a stone because they have a vested interest in the 'choke hold’. This total lack of transparency is the very thing that allows dealers to play the games they do. For example, 'my' dealer represented the MSRP of a base 393 was $174,000. So how do I check that when you can review a magazine online (albeit 18 months old) and the price was around $148,000? The fact is that the base boat at 2005 prices is pennies over $160,000 – when Beneteau in Marion finally provided the numbers and when challenged hard to explain why a magazine says something and the dealer says another with such a delta So O_Salt let me throw out a question or two for you and others to ponder. Would it not be better for prospective buyers to be able to see an MSRP just as you do when you buy a car and you can build and configure your own boat just like you would with a car? Wouldn’t we all be served better when we have true freedom to buy our Beneteau from any dealer in the US knowing that we (not Beneteau or protected dealers) are making the decision from which dealer based on trust, service, our desired or likely cruising grounds, or some other sound reason like ‘gosh I’d really like to do business with them’ factor just as most people do with other high ticket items? And while you consider these questions, let me again share an experience of a fellow sailor trapped in the same Beneteau region as myself. He purchased a large First not very long ago and spent a lot of money with the dealer. He went through commissioning and added systems and enjoyed the boat. Then one day in a call asking how one of his systems worked he was told in very clear terms by the service team that he was not allowed to ask any more questions. Flawed he asked the embarrassed technician what had happened to provoke this situation. The technician explained that while he bought the boat a few months before he couldn’t keep calling and taking up the staff’s time with questions about the boat. The owner of the regional dealership had told everyone in his company that the owner of the First was asking too many questions that could not be billed back to Beneteau warranty and therefore he was a money loser. Think how that sounds to a guy who has spent close to $300,000 on his boat and in reality he took very little time (and I can assure Liam that he is also not a 1%er) and then ask yourself how that is good service and helping promote the Beneteau brand. Already the owner is eyeing up his next boat and that $400,000 budget will NOT be going on Beneteau product! These are not isolated incidents from a bunch of wining old woman chewing over Beneteau, but professionals who have been shocked by how they have been treated and are left wondering how this can be allowed to happen unchecked. So, in closing O_Salt I hope this response gives you and others reading it a bit more meat on the bone to consider. I appreciate your patience as the other ‘specifics and facts’ you are looking for are built in a new website that can support more than text. At least now you can perhaps appreciate where I am coming from in this call to action for those that have received service that does not fit the Beneteau brand. Thanks to all that have written to me so far. Beneteau Biggot PS. What I find interesting are the emails from people that did NOT buy a new Beneteau boat because of how they had been treated by certain dealers! There are regional/dealer centric patterns emerging also.
Regional Dealer?
Actually I didn't have any idea of the "the regional choke hold" when I was shopping for a 323. I searched the internet for boats and prices and ended up buying from a dealer further away from the closest B dealer for a lot less. Any of the dealers from Ohio, Colorado and Washington indicated they were more than happy to sell me a boat. Sail On... Tery
Actually I didn't have any idea of the "the regional choke hold" when I was shopping for a 323. I searched the internet for boats and prices and ended up buying from a dealer further away from the closest B dealer for a lot less. Any of the dealers from Ohio, Colorado and Washington indicated they were more than happy to sell me a boat. Sail On... Tery
Not Limited to B.
Beneteau Biggot, The questions of, what is the MSRP, I have never paid MSRP for any major purchase in my life. As with the purchase of any large item negotiation comes into play. With the web and Sail Only Shows, the selling price of new boats is pretty well known. Just visit the Annapolis show or Pacific Sail Expo and you will get the price these boat sell for. Shop the web I see new B’s listed with prices all the time. In the terms of customer service at boat dealers, except for a few exceptions it is very poor. This is a problem with all dealers’ sail and power, not just B. This is probably the #1 reason that people quit boating not just buying Beneteau. It has gotten so bad, that except for the dirty job of doing fiberglass work I do all the work on my boat my self. To be fair to B, you should expand the questions you are asking to all sail boat owners, not just B. I think you will be surprised at the responses you get. This is not a B specific problem but a industry problem. O_Salt
Beneteau Biggot, The questions of, what is the MSRP, I have never paid MSRP for any major purchase in my life. As with the purchase of any large item negotiation comes into play. With the web and Sail Only Shows, the selling price of new boats is pretty well known. Just visit the Annapolis show or Pacific Sail Expo and you will get the price these boat sell for. Shop the web I see new B’s listed with prices all the time. In the terms of customer service at boat dealers, except for a few exceptions it is very poor. This is a problem with all dealers’ sail and power, not just B. This is probably the #1 reason that people quit boating not just buying Beneteau. It has gotten so bad, that except for the dirty job of doing fiberglass work I do all the work on my boat my self. To be fair to B, you should expand the questions you are asking to all sail boat owners, not just B. I think you will be surprised at the responses you get. This is not a B specific problem but a industry problem. O_Salt
Regional Dealer Release Letter
Terry, This is great news about the OH, CO and WA dealers willing to sell new Beneteaus across the US. Please email me the names of the dealers to gtsusa@yahoo.com and I’ll be sure to include their information on the website currently under construction. It sounds like these are kind of dealers that understand what an American free-market economy should be about for the Beneteau consumer. One specific incident for you, O-Salt and others to consider against this news is the following: During one of the last discussions I had with the owner of my regional dealer he offered up a ‘release letter’ as part of ‘splitting the sheets’ and giving my deposit back. He volunteered that he would write me a letter that I could take to any other US dealer, or even Beneteau showing that he gives “his permission for me to order and buy a Beneteau out of his region”. I was flawed by this implied admission that there was an 'agreement' between dealers (and perhaps with Beneteaus knowledge) that dealers release each other for selling boats inter-region. I asked him to confirm his offer and that I would need such a letter. He stated that I would and with it I would have no trouble now buying out of his region. Of course such a letter never materialized just as nothing this owner of the dealership ever said was reduced to writing, but it was interesting none the less to get the statements verbally. It also indicated that the ‘gentleman’s club’ on regional protection was more formal than I had assumed. Just 4 months before I finally capitulated to the Beneteau channel rules and ordered from my regional dealer I experienced the wrong end of inter-dealer communications while attempting to get a quote from another dealer. Here’s how it went; on the recommendation of a multiple Beneteau owner I called ‘his’ dealer (“Dealer A”) 5 states away and requested a quote from them. I did not get a call back from Dealer A so later I called and spoke with a broker. We talked and he took down the specifications of what I needed. He seemed pleased to get a quick order and understood that I was not happy with my own regional dealer’s performance thus far. The broker said he’d get back to me. The following morning I received a no-bid email from the broker at Dealer A. I called the person who recommended Dealer A to me and asked what was going on. He said he’d call back in 10 minutes. He did and said after speaking with the owner of Dealer A he confirmed that the owner of Dealer A had called the owner of my regional dealer that morning. Between the two of them they appear to have decided that the their two dealerships would not compete for my business. Later that day my broker in my regional dealer said he was aware of the relationship between the owners and ‘could not confirm, or deny that the owners may have spoken’. So is the previously offered release part of a formal process between dealers. Is Beneteau aware of these games? Who outside of the Beneteau channel knows for sure? However, these two events offer up something for would-be customers to consider as they attempt to shop for the best dealer that they can trust and feel good about in how they conduct themselves and the service their clients. Finally, if you are unsure about the channel management concerns (that clearly many of you are based on your emails) about territory/price protection actions of the Beneteau channel ask yourself if it is good for would-be Beneteau buyers to see certain Beneteau dealers offer their new boats on www.yachtworld.com and have territory disclaimers that read “This new [Beneteau] vessel is being offered by [Dealer Name] for customers that are in their territory” Beneteau Biggot
Terry, This is great news about the OH, CO and WA dealers willing to sell new Beneteaus across the US. Please email me the names of the dealers to gtsusa@yahoo.com and I’ll be sure to include their information on the website currently under construction. It sounds like these are kind of dealers that understand what an American free-market economy should be about for the Beneteau consumer. One specific incident for you, O-Salt and others to consider against this news is the following: During one of the last discussions I had with the owner of my regional dealer he offered up a ‘release letter’ as part of ‘splitting the sheets’ and giving my deposit back. He volunteered that he would write me a letter that I could take to any other US dealer, or even Beneteau showing that he gives “his permission for me to order and buy a Beneteau out of his region”. I was flawed by this implied admission that there was an 'agreement' between dealers (and perhaps with Beneteaus knowledge) that dealers release each other for selling boats inter-region. I asked him to confirm his offer and that I would need such a letter. He stated that I would and with it I would have no trouble now buying out of his region. Of course such a letter never materialized just as nothing this owner of the dealership ever said was reduced to writing, but it was interesting none the less to get the statements verbally. It also indicated that the ‘gentleman’s club’ on regional protection was more formal than I had assumed. Just 4 months before I finally capitulated to the Beneteau channel rules and ordered from my regional dealer I experienced the wrong end of inter-dealer communications while attempting to get a quote from another dealer. Here’s how it went; on the recommendation of a multiple Beneteau owner I called ‘his’ dealer (“Dealer A”) 5 states away and requested a quote from them. I did not get a call back from Dealer A so later I called and spoke with a broker. We talked and he took down the specifications of what I needed. He seemed pleased to get a quick order and understood that I was not happy with my own regional dealer’s performance thus far. The broker said he’d get back to me. The following morning I received a no-bid email from the broker at Dealer A. I called the person who recommended Dealer A to me and asked what was going on. He said he’d call back in 10 minutes. He did and said after speaking with the owner of Dealer A he confirmed that the owner of Dealer A had called the owner of my regional dealer that morning. Between the two of them they appear to have decided that the their two dealerships would not compete for my business. Later that day my broker in my regional dealer said he was aware of the relationship between the owners and ‘could not confirm, or deny that the owners may have spoken’. So is the previously offered release part of a formal process between dealers. Is Beneteau aware of these games? Who outside of the Beneteau channel knows for sure? However, these two events offer up something for would-be customers to consider as they attempt to shop for the best dealer that they can trust and feel good about in how they conduct themselves and the service their clients. Finally, if you are unsure about the channel management concerns (that clearly many of you are based on your emails) about territory/price protection actions of the Beneteau channel ask yourself if it is good for would-be Beneteau buyers to see certain Beneteau dealers offer their new boats on www.yachtworld.com and have territory disclaimers that read “This new [Beneteau] vessel is being offered by [Dealer Name] for customers that are in their territory” Beneteau Biggot
But B...is supposed to be better, right.
O-Salt, I agree that what is at work here in the US market is not limited just to Beneteau. But I contend that is a poor reason for playing the same game. On that basis Beneteau management are doing nothing but taking the easy and low road that Hunter and Catalina play and the management in Marion have then just buckled to the dealer system in which bad ones can get away with anything they want. Let me put this in a wider context for you and why I am working to raise the awareness of the US market conditions for US consumers and Chantiers Beneteau SA to see what is going on here. They are losing business. Period. In Europe it is illegal under EU law to block any retailer (dealer) from selling to anyone in another part of Europe, or for fixing prices for the same product at different levels for different countries/states. They are required to have price transparency and the dealers all know that they cannot win on price alone. Instead they add-value by selling additional items, will help you configure a boat and above all are 100% transparent about the MSRP. Within 24 hours good dealers will email you a complete configuration spreadsheet showing the prices and typically even a commissioning charge option depending on your final home base. For example, buy in the Germany, but have your Beneteau delivered in the Med. This is the same as ordering in Chicago and taking delivery in Florida. Any dealer can sell anywhere. Wow, what a concept…and yes, dealers are still making money! Now when you look at the European dealers spreadsheet you can see that it was a Beneteau based document and that the dealer has added items like life raft options etc. You can create a boat for your mission at home and the dealer rep supports you over the phone and discusses any option to walk up the deal. The approach is open, consultative and respectful of a boater’s intelligence and ability to read magazines and the internet. I have tested this with non-Beneteau dealers and the quality of selling is the same. Those European Beneteau dealers fight really hard for the Beneteau brand and work hard to promote their own organizations value-add as there is true competition at work and total transparency - supported by Beneteau. Compare that to here in the US and the US consumer’s sales experience from one coast to the next and it seems very, very different based on my experience and the emails I have seen this week. And so back to the issue of Beneteau. Why should Beneteau only be as good as Hunter and Catalina? Why shouldn’t Beneteau take the trouble to seriously review and take steps today to ‘lift’ the game before it is too late? Is the relationship between the management in Marion and the dealers to ‘personal’ to allow for objective and creative channel management and shake up service to make the purchase of a Beneteau better than that of a Catalina, or Hunter? At what point will the manufacturers see that there is a whole market out there being put off from buying new because consumers don’t like the games being played on them? Will it be Beneteau, Hunter or Catalina that takes the bold step of setting the bar higher? Beneteau Biggot PS. Not everyone can get to an expo and the shows I have been to the dealers only wanted to talk about 'show bundle prices'. Also when I look on yachtworld and see new boats the price is hardly ever disclosed and you have to call. Probably 80% of new boats have no price and the MSRP is typically not anything but the 'dealer's MSRP'
O-Salt, I agree that what is at work here in the US market is not limited just to Beneteau. But I contend that is a poor reason for playing the same game. On that basis Beneteau management are doing nothing but taking the easy and low road that Hunter and Catalina play and the management in Marion have then just buckled to the dealer system in which bad ones can get away with anything they want. Let me put this in a wider context for you and why I am working to raise the awareness of the US market conditions for US consumers and Chantiers Beneteau SA to see what is going on here. They are losing business. Period. In Europe it is illegal under EU law to block any retailer (dealer) from selling to anyone in another part of Europe, or for fixing prices for the same product at different levels for different countries/states. They are required to have price transparency and the dealers all know that they cannot win on price alone. Instead they add-value by selling additional items, will help you configure a boat and above all are 100% transparent about the MSRP. Within 24 hours good dealers will email you a complete configuration spreadsheet showing the prices and typically even a commissioning charge option depending on your final home base. For example, buy in the Germany, but have your Beneteau delivered in the Med. This is the same as ordering in Chicago and taking delivery in Florida. Any dealer can sell anywhere. Wow, what a concept…and yes, dealers are still making money! Now when you look at the European dealers spreadsheet you can see that it was a Beneteau based document and that the dealer has added items like life raft options etc. You can create a boat for your mission at home and the dealer rep supports you over the phone and discusses any option to walk up the deal. The approach is open, consultative and respectful of a boater’s intelligence and ability to read magazines and the internet. I have tested this with non-Beneteau dealers and the quality of selling is the same. Those European Beneteau dealers fight really hard for the Beneteau brand and work hard to promote their own organizations value-add as there is true competition at work and total transparency - supported by Beneteau. Compare that to here in the US and the US consumer’s sales experience from one coast to the next and it seems very, very different based on my experience and the emails I have seen this week. And so back to the issue of Beneteau. Why should Beneteau only be as good as Hunter and Catalina? Why shouldn’t Beneteau take the trouble to seriously review and take steps today to ‘lift’ the game before it is too late? Is the relationship between the management in Marion and the dealers to ‘personal’ to allow for objective and creative channel management and shake up service to make the purchase of a Beneteau better than that of a Catalina, or Hunter? At what point will the manufacturers see that there is a whole market out there being put off from buying new because consumers don’t like the games being played on them? Will it be Beneteau, Hunter or Catalina that takes the bold step of setting the bar higher? Beneteau Biggot PS. Not everyone can get to an expo and the shows I have been to the dealers only wanted to talk about 'show bundle prices'. Also when I look on yachtworld and see new boats the price is hardly ever disclosed and you have to call. Probably 80% of new boats have no price and the MSRP is typically not anything but the 'dealer's MSRP'
Not Me
Two years ago, I bought a new 331 from Cape Yachts in Harwich Port, Ma. I was an experienced power boater but knew little about sailboats. I have to say that it was one of the most positive purchasing experiences that I have had in my life. The dealer was very willing to negotiate price, and was there for every little problem, issue or question that I had. I feel that the boat was an excellent value, and my family and I have thoroughly enjoyed the last couple of seasons on her. I have no particular reason to praise either the manufacturer or the dealer except for the fact that I believe that I was treated fairly and honorably. I can't imagine that there is any kind of conspiracy or concerted effort on the part of Beneteau to cheat the customer or treat him unfairly. I have to give the dealer and Beneteau good grades on quality and customer service.
Two years ago, I bought a new 331 from Cape Yachts in Harwich Port, Ma. I was an experienced power boater but knew little about sailboats. I have to say that it was one of the most positive purchasing experiences that I have had in my life. The dealer was very willing to negotiate price, and was there for every little problem, issue or question that I had. I feel that the boat was an excellent value, and my family and I have thoroughly enjoyed the last couple of seasons on her. I have no particular reason to praise either the manufacturer or the dealer except for the fact that I believe that I was treated fairly and honorably. I can't imagine that there is any kind of conspiracy or concerted effort on the part of Beneteau to cheat the customer or treat him unfairly. I have to give the dealer and Beneteau good grades on quality and customer service.
bad attitude
sept of 2004 i purchased my 1st new boat and it is a beneteau 423 and i'm in love again.It's much more then i thought it would be.The dealer has been so willing to help in every way, from the price to adding auto pilot to thing that where just not right.i'm in the retail business myself and it sounds like your the 1% group beneteau has also been great to deal with and again i love my new 423
sept of 2004 i purchased my 1st new boat and it is a beneteau 423 and i'm in love again.It's much more then i thought it would be.The dealer has been so willing to help in every way, from the price to adding auto pilot to thing that where just not right.i'm in the retail business myself and it sounds like your the 1% group beneteau has also been great to deal with and again i love my new 423
Dear GTSUSA,
Are your shorts too tight? Have you seen anyone for your paranoid delusions? I think you need help. You are the only one who sees this conspiracy by the dealers and Beneteau. If such a conspiracy were true, would the rest of us see some tell tale signs? Get some help. Your life will improve significantly. Jim
Are your shorts too tight? Have you seen anyone for your paranoid delusions? I think you need help. You are the only one who sees this conspiracy by the dealers and Beneteau. If such a conspiracy were true, would the rest of us see some tell tale signs? Get some help. Your life will improve significantly. Jim
From a Happy Beneteau Customer
We are very happy with our dealership (Annapolis Yacht Sales), Beneteau and our new 373. I don't quite understand how a customer could get involved in so much, when so many others have no complaints. Or, small issues. This thread has been educational.
We are very happy with our dealership (Annapolis Yacht Sales), Beneteau and our new 373. I don't quite understand how a customer could get involved in so much, when so many others have no complaints. Or, small issues. This thread has been educational.
Jim, this is about Beneteau USA and the Channel
Dear Jim, Thank you for the email and contribution. You sound so angry and vengeful that it sad to see such a rant and personal attack in response to an open debate on Beneteau. If I did not know better I would have to assume that with such inner-rage that you must be the Beneteau dealer that is now carrying a 2006 3-cabin 393 in inventory and gave me my money back because of a screwed up commissioning job and unacceptable conduct! If you are that broker (or one of the broker brotherhood), then I can perhaps understand some of your frustration at having to floor-plan such a great boat. If you are not and ‘Jim’ is truly from CT, then that is very troubling to see you so upset. So Jim let me tackle your points. Shorts are fine and fit well. As for the paranoia and delusional bit, then you are wrong on both counts. At no point have I have claimed that the actions of either Beneteau, or the dealer have been directed solely at me. In fact, the issues I point out are wider and impact the US Beneteau community and anyone looking to buy a new Beneteau. The issues in the US Beneteau channel are hurting Chantiers Beneteau SA and limiting the ability for Beneteau to grow the brand while front-line quality at the dealer level sinks. Nor do I believe there is a conspiracy as it has been characterized in the responses. However, I do believe (and have evidence of) unhealthy channel behavior that is tantamount to price fixing and collusion between at least two dealers. I do not say this is just directed at me, but rather is just the tip of the iceberg and discovered through attempts to find a suitable and trustworthy Beneteau dealer. I have it from Beneteau brokers “off the record” that such market controlling practices between dealers are the unspoken rules of the game to protect national margins. They are not limited to Beneteau, or even just the pleasure boat market, but the fact that Beneteau USA allows and fosters such a culture through the CSI program and without any MSRP transparency is hurting the market and turning good people away at a time when they are trying to go ‘up market’ with Swft Trawlers, Antares for increased profit. How on earth can Chantiers Beneteau SA ever hope to get more than 13% of their Group sales from the US – the largest market in the world? How can the executive team in France hope to grow worldwide sales by 50% from 2003-2008 when ‘loyal’ cash buyers are being driven from a new Beneteau because of the unchecked and unprofessional system here in the US. Beneteau USA has in place a market in which there is NO open competition and dealers truly striving for service excellence in order to win business. Yes, there are good dealers, but there are many that do not make the grade based on data I have myself and from others sending in their experiences. The relationship between Beneteau USA management and the US Beneteau dealer channel is broken when compared to how Beneteau operations are run in Europe. So Jim, would you see the signs? I am not sure that you would reading your email. However, if you could experience (as I have done) how professional, transparent and respectful of the prospective client a European Beneteau dealer is in promoting and selling a new Beneteau you would start to appreciate the concerns and statements I am making here in this discussion – not because of personal frustration and bitterness, but because I believe Beneteau is fundamentally a better boat and deserves better marketing and sales here in the US to ensure future customers get the best service to match the quality of the product Beneteau engineers in France! In conclusion, if you had a great experience with your Beneteau dealer that is great. From the many emails I have received it seems that there is a great deal of frustration among NEW Beneteau buyers. Allow me to close with one email from a recent 343 customer that has gone through his own issues during delivery. In it the sender replied to my pre-acceptance checklist: “Thanks for your feedback. I wish I had that a couple of weeks earlier. Probably, naively, and under the assumption that the dealer will make it right, I did sign the paperwork without having had a solid trial of the boat. I did spend a long weekend on the boat and a few issues have cropped up already. Chiefly, there were a quite a few leaks, one apparently at the mast base? I'll see if the dealer will make things right. So far they have been good about dealing with most things, also they seem to balking abit a "design" issues such as a poorly fit refrigerator door (sticks out at the bottom and would need a nother latch, which doesn't fit, and a chart table cover that catches on the VHF when opened..) I'm sure I'll have more to report. I think its important to encourage owners to publish reviews directly and let dealers and Beneteau know they will do so.” Benteau Biggot PS. Read the last sentence again.
Dear Jim, Thank you for the email and contribution. You sound so angry and vengeful that it sad to see such a rant and personal attack in response to an open debate on Beneteau. If I did not know better I would have to assume that with such inner-rage that you must be the Beneteau dealer that is now carrying a 2006 3-cabin 393 in inventory and gave me my money back because of a screwed up commissioning job and unacceptable conduct! If you are that broker (or one of the broker brotherhood), then I can perhaps understand some of your frustration at having to floor-plan such a great boat. If you are not and ‘Jim’ is truly from CT, then that is very troubling to see you so upset. So Jim let me tackle your points. Shorts are fine and fit well. As for the paranoia and delusional bit, then you are wrong on both counts. At no point have I have claimed that the actions of either Beneteau, or the dealer have been directed solely at me. In fact, the issues I point out are wider and impact the US Beneteau community and anyone looking to buy a new Beneteau. The issues in the US Beneteau channel are hurting Chantiers Beneteau SA and limiting the ability for Beneteau to grow the brand while front-line quality at the dealer level sinks. Nor do I believe there is a conspiracy as it has been characterized in the responses. However, I do believe (and have evidence of) unhealthy channel behavior that is tantamount to price fixing and collusion between at least two dealers. I do not say this is just directed at me, but rather is just the tip of the iceberg and discovered through attempts to find a suitable and trustworthy Beneteau dealer. I have it from Beneteau brokers “off the record” that such market controlling practices between dealers are the unspoken rules of the game to protect national margins. They are not limited to Beneteau, or even just the pleasure boat market, but the fact that Beneteau USA allows and fosters such a culture through the CSI program and without any MSRP transparency is hurting the market and turning good people away at a time when they are trying to go ‘up market’ with Swft Trawlers, Antares for increased profit. How on earth can Chantiers Beneteau SA ever hope to get more than 13% of their Group sales from the US – the largest market in the world? How can the executive team in France hope to grow worldwide sales by 50% from 2003-2008 when ‘loyal’ cash buyers are being driven from a new Beneteau because of the unchecked and unprofessional system here in the US. Beneteau USA has in place a market in which there is NO open competition and dealers truly striving for service excellence in order to win business. Yes, there are good dealers, but there are many that do not make the grade based on data I have myself and from others sending in their experiences. The relationship between Beneteau USA management and the US Beneteau dealer channel is broken when compared to how Beneteau operations are run in Europe. So Jim, would you see the signs? I am not sure that you would reading your email. However, if you could experience (as I have done) how professional, transparent and respectful of the prospective client a European Beneteau dealer is in promoting and selling a new Beneteau you would start to appreciate the concerns and statements I am making here in this discussion – not because of personal frustration and bitterness, but because I believe Beneteau is fundamentally a better boat and deserves better marketing and sales here in the US to ensure future customers get the best service to match the quality of the product Beneteau engineers in France! In conclusion, if you had a great experience with your Beneteau dealer that is great. From the many emails I have received it seems that there is a great deal of frustration among NEW Beneteau buyers. Allow me to close with one email from a recent 343 customer that has gone through his own issues during delivery. In it the sender replied to my pre-acceptance checklist: “Thanks for your feedback. I wish I had that a couple of weeks earlier. Probably, naively, and under the assumption that the dealer will make it right, I did sign the paperwork without having had a solid trial of the boat. I did spend a long weekend on the boat and a few issues have cropped up already. Chiefly, there were a quite a few leaks, one apparently at the mast base? I'll see if the dealer will make things right. So far they have been good about dealing with most things, also they seem to balking abit a "design" issues such as a poorly fit refrigerator door (sticks out at the bottom and would need a nother latch, which doesn't fit, and a chart table cover that catches on the VHF when opened..) I'm sure I'll have more to report. I think its important to encourage owners to publish reviews directly and let dealers and Beneteau know they will do so.” Benteau Biggot PS. Read the last sentence again.
- Status