Battery setup

[ian19147]

Turn on #1 but not #2 then Both.......AHHHH

Are you guys TRYING to make this difficult?Get a simple ON/OFF switch, run all of your charging sources directly into the house group, then add a combiner to charge the start battery. That's all you need!!! As Jon & Jack said, no need to touch a switch except when you come aboard.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Jack, that was,,,

one of the best posts I've seen on HOW. Again, good job.

 

[Stu Jackson C34]

Very Interesting Topic

We've had spirited discussions about this on our C34 website.Jack and Ian really nailed it.How you use your boat will dictate two very important things:1. How big a house bank you need2. Whether you need to upgrade your alternator and install an electronic regulatorIf you're at the dock all the time, a basic out of the box system will keep working.If you want to cruise and go "disconnected" for any period of time, you need to BOTH increase your house bank capacity AND improve the stock alternator OEM automotive charging baloney to a real deep cycle battery charging system. Some people leave the alternators as-is, and just buy a 1,000 or 2,000 watt Honda generator and plug it into their shorepower connection at anchor.Your boat, your choices.I invite you to peruse the diussions we've had by using the search engine starting from the related link. Search on electrical, batteries, alternators, etc. Lots of juicy discussions and recommendations.Jack Rabbit Marine is a good source, as is downloading the Ample Power Primer from ample's website.All the best, great thread.Stu

 

[Stu Jackson C34]

Very Interesting Topic

We've had spirited discussions about this on our C34 website.Jack and Ian really nailed it.How you use your boat will dictate two very important things:1. How big a house bank you need2. Whether you need to upgrade your alternator and install an electronic regulatorIf you're at the dock all the time, a basic out of the box system will keep working.If you want to cruise and go "disconnected" for any period of time, you need to BOTH increase your house bank capacity AND improve the stock alternator OEM automotive charging baloney to a real deep cycle battery charging system. Some people leave the alternators as-is, and just buy a 1,000 or 2,000 watt Honda generator and plug it into their shorepower connection at anchor.Your boat, your choices.I invite you to peruse the diussions we've had by using the search engine starting from the related link. Search on electrical, batteries, alternators, etc. Lots of juicy discussions and recommendations.Jack Rabbit Marine is a good source, as is downloading the Ample Power Primer from ample's website.All the best, great thread.Stu

 

[Tantallon]

Tantallon--- from the beginning

Thanks for all the comments. I think Jack really nailed it down for me. Just a little background, my partner Mike and I bought Tantallon in as is condition this past spring. We mainly daysailed her this past season with only basic maintenance other than a complete bottom strip and barrier coat job. This fall we decided to tackle the main problems which we discovered during the summer. The one we are now talking about was the fact that we found the two Delco Voyager #27 deep cycle batteries to be new in 2001. They worked fine through the whole season. We had a 10 watt solar charger attached and I am sure it helped. For the most part the engine only runs about 15 minutes which is just enough to get us to sailing waters. We decided to keep the two batteries and parallel them together for house use. We then figured we would add a start battery. Some questions arose when we were unwiring the batteries to take them off the boat. We have a Guest 2515 built in charger and of course no instruction manual. I found the 2515 wired with two leads hooked to one positive post on one of the batteries. Searching the Guest site proved useless in answering the charger question. I looked at the WM catalog hoping to find info on the charger hookup. There I found info on combiners and isolators. WM suggested the use of a combiner instead of the isolator. They also had an example of a battery setup. Too much reading just confused the issue. Therefore I posed the original question. We expect to do some limited cruising this coming summer and hope to revive a non functioning Cold Machine Refrigeration unit. Other than that we daysail and do some club racing. At first some of the answers were easy to understand,but as time went on the variety just made it more confusing than ever. I would like to keep the 1-2-both switch and my research seems to lead us toward the WM combiner. I am still not sure how to wire it and even after down loading the instruction manual from WM I am still confused. I hope I haven't caused too much trouble, but find it comforting that there are so many willing to help. Thanks, Paul & Mike ( Tantallon is a castle in Scotland by the way)

 

[Tantallon]

Tantallon--- from the beginning

Thanks for all the comments. I think Jack really nailed it down for me. Just a little background, my partner Mike and I bought Tantallon in as is condition this past spring. We mainly daysailed her this past season with only basic maintenance other than a complete bottom strip and barrier coat job. This fall we decided to tackle the main problems which we discovered during the summer. The one we are now talking about was the fact that we found the two Delco Voyager #27 deep cycle batteries to be new in 2001. They worked fine through the whole season. We had a 10 watt solar charger attached and I am sure it helped. For the most part the engine only runs about 15 minutes which is just enough to get us to sailing waters. We decided to keep the two batteries and parallel them together for house use. We then figured we would add a start battery. Some questions arose when we were unwiring the batteries to take them off the boat. We have a Guest 2515 built in charger and of course no instruction manual. I found the 2515 wired with two leads hooked to one positive post on one of the batteries. Searching the Guest site proved useless in answering the charger question. I looked at the WM catalog hoping to find info on the charger hookup. There I found info on combiners and isolators. WM suggested the use of a combiner instead of the isolator. They also had an example of a battery setup. Too much reading just confused the issue. Therefore I posed the original question. We expect to do some limited cruising this coming summer and hope to revive a non functioning Cold Machine Refrigeration unit. Other than that we daysail and do some club racing. At first some of the answers were easy to understand,but as time went on the variety just made it more confusing than ever. I would like to keep the 1-2-both switch and my research seems to lead us toward the WM combiner. I am still not sure how to wire it and even after down loading the instruction manual from WM I am still confused. I hope I haven't caused too much trouble, but find it comforting that there are so many willing to help. Thanks, Paul & Mike ( Tantallon is a castle in Scotland by the way)

 

[Rick9619]

That seems to narrow it down a bit

Thanks Jon and Jack for the input. I really thought my system was fairly "intense" not to imply complicated. As I said im new at this game and since I fly heavy airliners for a living, am not afraid to mix it up a bit. I get to play with switches enough at work thanks. Will look at the links and since im going to the boat for a few days tomorrow. See if I can figure out exactly what I have and trim some dead weight. I like the idea of throwing one switch! Jon, I have a yanmar 30gm fresh water cooled by the way.Happy holidaysHey Fred... nice job of ducking this one. You must be a politician as well as a sailor.Rick

 

[Rick9619]

That seems to narrow it down a bit

Thanks Jon and Jack for the input. I really thought my system was fairly "intense" not to imply complicated. As I said im new at this game and since I fly heavy airliners for a living, am not afraid to mix it up a bit. I get to play with switches enough at work thanks. Will look at the links and since im going to the boat for a few days tomorrow. See if I can figure out exactly what I have and trim some dead weight. I like the idea of throwing one switch! Jon, I have a yanmar 30gm fresh water cooled by the way.Happy holidaysHey Fred... nice job of ducking this one. You must be a politician as well as a sailor.Rick

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Ooooh maaaaan,

you noticed Rick! It is soooo hard to explain wiring on-line that I chickened-out. I was hoping no one would notice. Drat! Merry Christmas. And that came from the resident atheist.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Ooooh maaaaan,

you noticed Rick! It is soooo hard to explain wiring on-line that I chickened-out. I was hoping no one would notice. Drat! Merry Christmas. And that came from the resident atheist.

 

[Tantallon]

Switch confusion

Ian, yours sounds like the solution I am after. You say a simple on/off switch, but in your title you refer to #1 not #2 then both. I would like to keep the 1-2-both switch. Is that workable? Also everything including the solar collector and the builtin Guest charger gets hooked to the house bank and a combiner bridges from that to the start battery???? Please speak slowly so I can understand. Thanks, Paul

 

[Tantallon]

Switch confusion

Ian, yours sounds like the solution I am after. You say a simple on/off switch, but in your title you refer to #1 not #2 then both. I would like to keep the 1-2-both switch. Is that workable? Also everything including the solar collector and the builtin Guest charger gets hooked to the house bank and a combiner bridges from that to the start battery???? Please speak slowly so I can understand. Thanks, Paul

 

[ian19147]

Hopefully an easy explination

An ON/OFF switch is very inexpensive, but you can use the one you have. When you wire it, put your positive lines to #1 and nothing to 2 or BOTH. #1 will be ON and #2 & BOTH will be OFF.a) Install a seperate 250amp bus bar and run the pos from the solar collectors and from the charger to it. b) Then connect the bus bar to the pos terminal on the battery.c) Connect anything that you want to always be on (bilge pump) to the bus bar (the bus bar is always hot)d) Install the ON/OFF switch between the battery and the house pos loads. e) Install the combiner between the house battery and the starter battery pos terminals. (Follow the directions provided by the manuf.)This is a over-simplification because you still need to address wire sizes, fuse sizes, etc, but it gives you the basic layout. Hope it helps. I have used this system on two boats and it works great.Go to www.yandina.com A very good explination of combiners.

 

[ian19147]

Hopefully an easy explination

An ON/OFF switch is very inexpensive, but you can use the one you have. When you wire it, put your positive lines to #1 and nothing to 2 or BOTH. #1 will be ON and #2 & BOTH will be OFF.a) Install a seperate 250amp bus bar and run the pos from the solar collectors and from the charger to it. b) Then connect the bus bar to the pos terminal on the battery.c) Connect anything that you want to always be on (bilge pump) to the bus bar (the bus bar is always hot)d) Install the ON/OFF switch between the battery and the house pos loads. e) Install the combiner between the house battery and the starter battery pos terminals. (Follow the directions provided by the manuf.)This is a over-simplification because you still need to address wire sizes, fuse sizes, etc, but it gives you the basic layout. Hope it helps. I have used this system on two boats and it works great.Go to www.yandina.com A very good explination of combiners.

 

[Bill18593]

Start with the premise

that at least one battery must be connected to the charging circuit at all times when the charger is operating. If one battery is turned off before another is connected (even though for a short time like when switching between batteries), the charger can "blow" when disconnected.So start with the starter battery, then ADD the second / alternate battery, then turn off the starter battery.

 

[Bill18593]

Start with the premise

that at least one battery must be connected to the charging circuit at all times when the charger is operating. If one battery is turned off before another is connected (even though for a short time like when switching between batteries), the charger can "blow" when disconnected.So start with the starter battery, then ADD the second / alternate battery, then turn off the starter battery.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Bill,

We hear your advise here now and then. Most boats have true marine switches that DO NOT have a flat spot between poles. You can check it with a multimeter or your house lights. With the lights on, move the switch slowly. It's only the 'off' pole that does the 'nasty' to an alternator. I don't know about most shore power chargers. It would seem to me they are safe by design. You know, like most battery chargers, you can remove or hook them up with the power on. Sure, if your battery is gassing, well, seek medical aid and then repair the damage. My Balmar alternator has its' voltage-sense wire connected at its' output stud to protect its' diodes so the alternator couldn't care less what I do to it. But that's only 'owners manual' spiel. I've never put it to the test.P.S. And I rewired this summer. Forgot about that. The rectifier is no longer in the alternator. Photo #53 on my web site, explains why.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Bill,

We hear your advise here now and then. Most boats have true marine switches that DO NOT have a flat spot between poles. You can check it with a multimeter or your house lights. With the lights on, move the switch slowly. It's only the 'off' pole that does the 'nasty' to an alternator. I don't know about most shore power chargers. It would seem to me they are safe by design. You know, like most battery chargers, you can remove or hook them up with the power on. Sure, if your battery is gassing, well, seek medical aid and then repair the damage. My Balmar alternator has its' voltage-sense wire connected at its' output stud to protect its' diodes so the alternator couldn't care less what I do to it. But that's only 'owners manual' spiel. I've never put it to the test.P.S. And I rewired this summer. Forgot about that. The rectifier is no longer in the alternator. Photo #53 on my web site, explains why.

 

[Gord May]

Make Before Break

Bill & Fred:"Make-before-Break" is the term that describes a Selector Switch WITHOUT that “dead” spot between positions. Any “approved” Battery Selector switch will be “make before break”; which is also available in Double Throw Toggle Type Switches.

 

[Gord May]

Make Before Break

Bill & Fred:"Make-before-Break" is the term that describes a Selector Switch WITHOUT that “dead” spot between positions. Any “approved” Battery Selector switch will be “make before break”; which is also available in Double Throw Toggle Type Switches.