Bargers at the start and a protest

JRT

JRT

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Feb 14, 2017
2,048
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
Agree, very helpful and I understand what I did now after reading this and remembering our position and his. I'll owe him a apology, even though he dropped out of the race later.
 
gdudik

gdudik

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Oct 25, 2017
87
Catalina 22 Vancouver, WA
Jackdaw said:
It's one of my personal favorites. I have no big problem when people break rules when its unavoidable, or sometimes when they don't know the rules. But when someone does to it gain advance or game the system, I pull out that baby.

WYC is pretty hardcore about this as well. Get stupid and you will likely see the PC add a RRS#2 to the protest form, and that makes the DSQ a DND. That will wreck your whole series.
Click to expand
DND?
 
J

JimInPB

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Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
gdudik said:
DND?
Click to expand
I think he means DNE. That's probably a typo

SCORING ABBREVIATIONS
These scoring abbreviations shall be used for recording the circumstances described:
DNC Did not start; did not come to the starting area
DNS Did not start (other than DNC and OCS)
OCS Did not start; on the course side of the starting line at her starting signal and failed to start, or broke rule 30.1
ZFP 20% penalty under rule 30.2
UFD Disqualification under rule 30.3
BFD Disqualification under rule 30.4
SCP Scoring Penalty applied
DNF Did not finish
RET Retired
DSQ Disqualification
DNE Disqualification that is not excludable
RDG Redress given
DPI Discretionary penalty imposed

Rule 2 - FAIR SAILING
A boat and her owner shall compete in compliance with recognized principles of sportsmanship and fair play. A boat may be penalized under this rule only if it is clearly established that these principles have been violated. The penalty shall be either disqualification or disqualification that is not excludable.
 
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Jackdaw

Jackdaw

.
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
JimInPB said:
I think he means DNE. That's probably a typo
SCORING ABBREVIATIONS
These scoring abbreviations shall be used for recording the circumstances described:
DNC Did not start; did not come to the starting area
DNS Did not start (other than DNC and OCS)
OCS Did not start; on the course side of the starting line at her starting signal and failed to start, or broke rule 30.1
ZFP 20% penalty under rule 30.2
UFD Disqualification under rule 30.3
BFD Disqualification under rule 30.4
SCP Scoring Penalty applied
DNF Did not finish
RET Retired
DSQ Disqualification
DNE Disqualification that is not excludable
RDG Redress given
DPI Discretionary penalty imposed
Click to expand
Both are valid. Mean the same thing,
 
Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,076
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
glaufman said:
Like to add my 2 cents... Just so noone gets into trouble... There is one situation in which you could owe room to the barger...
If you have to alter course to squeeze out the barger... Do this while they can still tack away, cool, you defended your rights... But when u alter course you owe them room to keep clear... So if you wait until they can't tack without hitting the RC, then squeezing them is your foul.
Click to expand
Indeed. In fact that was the subject of a protest and appeal to US Sailing. Read more at appeal 117 near the bottom of the page at https://www.ussailing.org/competition/rules-officiating/appeals/
 
Apex

Apex

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Jun 19, 2013
1,197
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
glaufman said:
Like to add my 2 cents... Just so noone gets into trouble... There is one situation in which you could owe room to the barger...
If you have to alter course to squeeze out the barger... Do this while they can still tack away, cool, you defended your rights... But when u alter course you owe them room to keep clear... So if you wait until they can't tack without hitting the RC, then squeezing them is your foul.
Click to expand
There is no "proper course" prior to the start, so the important caveat is putting the other boat into the committee boat or you through course change, causing a collision. So communicate with the barger well ahead when you see the situation rising. "no room for you here"
*edit* interesting appeal case linked above....so defend earlier if that is the space you are working for.
 
J

JimInPB

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Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
Jackdaw said:
Both are valid. Mean the same thing,
Click to expand
The abbreviations that I listed were straight out of the RRS book. As far as I know, those are the only official entries that are supposed to appear on the score sheet. Is there another reference that I missed? The only DND that I know is a Canadian government agency.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
JimInPB said:
The committee boat you passed at 0:59, looks like it is flying 2 orange flags. Was that a mid line boat?
Click to expand
No one is orange, the traditional on-station and starting line flag. The other is red and is the class start flag.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Jackdaw said:
Yep, you have to be talking early to boats. Note I don’t say leeward here at the last moment. I tell then no room while they still have time to act.

Click to expand
Quiz: watch the vid, when read the appeal referenced in post 46. What if I had not said anything?
 
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