Balmar SG200 Problem

Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
The best way to determine this is to charge to 100% then isolate all the batteries from one another. Now wait a few days and test the voltage of each battery. If they had previously been in parallel your voltages should be within .02V of one another.. So a reading of 12.72V, 12.71V, 12.70V and 12.55V would be a bad indicator for battery number 4 (12.55V)...
 
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Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Guys the SG-200 is not "broken" it has a few software glitches that will get corrected. This is why the initial launch was done in beta so they could get some in the real world and get feed back. Heck I've been waiting 20+ years for the algorithms in traditional Ah counters to get fixed, but stopped holding my breath...;) Compared to a traditional Ah counter the SG-200 is far from "broken".
 
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Dec 4, 2018
60
Balboa 27 Denver
My SG200 is working fine, followed the instructions, did several deep discharge/charge cycles, have 8 year old Deka Gel GRP 31’s and they are at 89% SOH. My 15 year old BATMON, from Ample power finally quit, and this new product is awesome. Way to go.
 
Nov 2, 2017
9
Delphia 37 Bayfield
My SG200 is working fine, followed the instructions, did several deep discharge/charge cycles, have 8 year old Deka Gel GRP 31’s and they are at 89% SOH. My 15 year old BATMON, from Ample power finally quit, and this new product is awesome. Way to go.
Just had to chuckle, I have 3x 6 month old Deka Gel 31’s and their SOH is also 89% SOH after a number of discharge/charge cycles also. Just seems odd these banks would have the exact same SOH.
 
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jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
SOH is dependent on many factors, so it's not unusual that a 6 month old battery might have the same SOH as an older one. But I think it's quite remarkable that there's an 8 year old bank that is actually being used, i.e., cycled, that has a SOH of 89%.
 
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Apr 1, 2019
27
Freedom 38 Boston, MA
Gotta say, my SG200 has been working flawlessly since I installed it in June. Looking forward to the bluetooth capabilities, but honestly, I'm fully satisfied with the unit as is. It does just what it says on the tin. I thought the one button interface would be annoying, but it's fine.
 
Dec 4, 2018
60
Balboa 27 Denver
Just had to chuckle, I have 3x 6 month old Deka Gel 31’s and their SOH is also 89% SOH after a number of discharge/charge cycles also. Just seems odd these banks would have the exact same SOH.
I guess that means they are a little overrated initially but just don’t lose capacity. Was the SOH determined after are several DEEP discharges? I would think that the deeper you go the better estimate of the SOH you would get, maybe.

Back in the day, David Smead recommended an occasional full discharge to 10.8 volts followed immediately by a 10 % amp recharge as a way to test and refresh batteries. Donna if that still makes sense today.
 
Nov 2, 2017
9
Delphia 37 Bayfield
I guess that means they are a little overrated initially but just don’t lose capacity. Was the SOH determined after are several DEEP discharges? I would think that the deeper you go the better estimate of the SOH you would get, maybe.

Back in the day, David Smead recommended an occasional full discharge to 10.8 volts followed immediately by a 10 % amp recharge as a way to test and refresh batteries. Donna if that still makes sense today.
Yes, 89% after several discharges into the 50% SOC range. I’ve got a known issue with the SG-200 where it flips between two SOH values (89% and 100% in my case).

Thanks for posting the idea that perhaps the batteries are over stated as to their capacities - gives me a different way to think on things. Instead of always going to the negative about the SG-200 perhaps there are other factors causing a actual SOH of 89%.

If my bank says (and is) still at 89% SOH in 9 years I think that’s a pretty solid win all around. I was thinking I’d already lost ~50% of their usable life (replacing batteries at 80% SOH seems to be the norm) and perhaps things are just fine.

I still think it’s a little odd two different gel banks have the exact same SOH with completely different age, charge and use profiles.
 
Dec 4, 2018
60
Balboa 27 Denver
Yes, 89% after several discharges into the 50% SOC range. I’ve got a known issue with the SG-200 where it flips between two SOH values (89% and 100% in my case).

Thanks for posting the idea that perhaps the batteries are over stated as to their capacities - gives me a different way to think on things. Instead of always going to the negative about the SG-200 perhaps there are other factors causing a actual SOH of 89%.

If my bank says (and is) still at 89% SOH in 9 years I think that’s a pretty solid win all around. I was thinking I’d already lost ~50% of their usable life (replacing batteries at 80% SOH seems to be the norm) and perhaps things are just fine.

I still think it’s a little odd two different gel banks have the exact same SOH with completely different age, charge and use profiles.
Yeah that does seem a bit odd.. I guess the only way to really verify this is to bring them all the way down at the 20 hour rate to 10.8 volts and see how many AH they have produced.. I used to have a rig to do that, with an automated shut off, but I can do it manually. Must wait till after the season is over to try. I used to do that annually with my 4D Sonnensheim (sp) gels, but haven’t with these Deka’s. Don’t care as much anymore.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
It occurs to me that SOH is something that you needn't check continuously; once a season seems adequate. Consider not just the data, but what you would do with the data. SOH would enter into a decision to replace the batteries; maybe to equalize them, but equalization on a regular basis will prolong life, as a remedy it won't have a significant effect.

There are other ways of determining SOH. I have an Argus battery tester that reports "remaining life" which is, I think, analogous to SOH; it reports the percentage of capacity remaining in the battery. It's really only meaningful with a baseline measurement, so you keep a log from when you installed the batteries, etc. Then you can make a decision about replacing them or pressing on.

SOC charge, of course, is an entirely different thing. I have wondered whether it was meaningful to record "Volts at Amps" data points while in use, and after collecting up a large number of data points, try to correlate these to SOC. A 'big data" approach to determining SOC. Once you have this, maybe you could just look up SOC from the current and voltage operating point. Note that it would automatically take into account Peukert's Law, and other factors. Just a thought.
 
May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
I spoke with Balmar tech support who confirmed that my unit needs an update as this is a known issue. Bluetooth dongle should be available within two weeks I was told...
 
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May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
Got an email that my Bluetooth dongle should be arriving soon - perhaps today. I went to the Balmar site to see if there are instructions for it's use, but it appears the site is down:confused: Hopefully there are some instructions with the dongle...
 
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May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
My Bluetooth dongle arrived Friday and I installed it that evening. I downloaded the app from the Google Play store, and installed it on my phone. As the printed instruction indicated, the app identified the items in my network, the SG200 battery gauge, the shunt, and the dongle itself. Going into the device list in the menu on the app, it showed that the SG200 and the shunt both needed software updates. The instructions warned that the process could take while, and I selected the SG200 to update first. The download took about 4-5 minutes, and the installation another 2-3, during which the gauge rebooted a couple of times. The gauge then displays a message that says app is connected, and the button on the gauge does nothing while the app is connected. The information normally on the gauge can be read in the app while connected. To restore gauge function, the gateway needs to be disconnected using the app. Unfortunately at this point in the process things did not go as expected. My intention was to next update the shunt, however after the gauge updated, the app would not longer find the gateway and connect. I tried restarting the app, clearing data and cache in the app, and finally force quitting the app, to no avail. I ended up disconnecting the dongle from the gauge, and disconnecting the shunt from the gauge, then reconnecting everything (went through variations of this process a few times over about 25 minutes) and was finally able to connect and update the shunt. At this point it is hopefully just too early to tell if the updates solved my original issue because early indications are that the gauge is behaving the same way - rapid discharge indicated by the SOC, even though voltage is reported (accurately) as being 12.6 or higher. Perhaps taking the batteries through a couple of discharge/charge cycles will clear this up with the new software. Sadly, we have to haul out this Friday so we may not get a good real world test until next season.
 
May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
Well after a week and a half with the software update and a phone conversation with Balmar tech support it is confirmed that the software update does not solve the issue of the SOC incorrectly reporting rapid self-discharge. Balmar is aware of the problem and it is being worked on. They are hoping to have the next software update available before Thanksgiving, perhaps making the gauge functional for it's intended purpose.
 
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Feb 2, 2006
464
Hunter Legend 35 Kingston
Just a data point to add here:
  • I've been seeing SoH vary between 100% & 90% (and nothing other than those values) all summer. 90% was by far the most common value. We were cruising all summer, and never really had a period of "no-load" on the system. Also, we were on shore power or motoring most days, so only 1 in 5 days would we drain the batteries down to 70%-80%.
  • The batteries were brand new in the spring and should have been ready 100%.
  • While the SoC generally seems ok, I still find that the value can "jump" by 5-10%.
  • Recently, now back at the dock, I fully charged the batteries and turned off all the loads, and still saw 0.3A draw and by the next day, the SoC said something like 86% where as it should be closer to 98%
  • Having read that my ACR can result in the 0.3A, I turned my ACR off, and the current reading went to 0.0A
  • and after a day the SoC was at 96%. Better, but a little weird.
I just received the Bluetooth Gateway, but while my App detected the Gateway, it couldn't find the device. Balmar tech was quick to respond with "pull the SG-200 fuse and wait, then re-install fuse" and if that fails, "press and hold the button until it restarts" .

I did the fuse "thing" and got it working and installed updates for the Shunt and Display. The process that worked for me was 1) pull fuse, wait, put fuse back in, 2) pull Bluetooth gateway connector from display, and re-insert. After these two steps, the App would find everything and firmware updates could be applied, and other interactions with the SG-200

It seems that the reboot process (that occurs after firmware updates) doesn't always recognize the devices on the network (or at least not right away).

Chris
 
Jan 9, 2020
55
J J/42 1 New Castle NH
Just curious if anyone knows the latest status on the pending software update, and whether or not if any new units are shipping without the required update via BT. I have an old Link 2000 on this new (to me) boat, and based on everything I've read, the SG200 is the best product to use. Thx.
 
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
My SG200 is working fine now. I think the SOH issue goes away as you go thru more deeper discharge/charge issues, and don’t expect +- 1%.

I really like time to charge/ discharge screens.
 
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Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Just curious if anyone knows the latest status on the pending software update, and whether or not if any new units are shipping without the required update via BT. I have an old Link 2000 on this new (to me) boat, and based on everything I've read, the SG200 is the best product to use. Thx.

There have already been a couple of updates and we got another tweak, just last week, for really large LiFePO4 banks. There will be another update soon helping to deal with the way the unit looks at the available data for batteries at rest for long periods. With the SG200 it is best to purchase the BT Dongle as this will be a device that continues to improve as new battery technologies come along or the lab finds ways to make it even more accurate.

As has been stated SoH needs deep-cycles and is not a fast learn like SoC is.
 
Feb 2, 2006
464
Hunter Legend 35 Kingston
Just a data point to add here:
  • I've been seeing SoH vary between 100% & 90% (and nothing other than those values) all summer. 90% was by far the most common value. We were cruising all summer, and never really had a period of "no-load" on the system. Also, we were on shore power or motoring most days, so only 1 in 5 days would we drain the batteries down to 70%-80%.
  • The batteries were brand new in the spring and should have been ready 100%.
  • While the SoC generally seems ok, I still find that the value can "jump" by 5-10%.
  • ..... Deleted
Apologies for activating an old thread.

Fyi, after a few software updates, the system seems to be more reliable with respect to updates, but still glitchy at times.

But what hasn't changed is that it only ever reads 100% or 90% SoH. Never any other value. The batteries are new enough that somewhere between 90 and 100 might make sense. The SoC value is also a bit wacky. It still seems 10-15% off at times, and when the system is left to sit after the Chargers have gone into float mode or shut off, The SoC reading jumps from, say 80% ish to 100%.

Have a promariner 1240p, and a Victron smartsolar 75/15 charge controller.

Really seems like it hasn't figured out the batteries after almost 2 seasons. Last summer and this summer I have run their quick calibration procedure.
 
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Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Apologies for activating an old thread.

Fyi, after a few software updates, the system seems to be more reliable with respect to updates, but still glitchy at times.

But what hasn't changed is that it only ever reads 100% or 90% SoH. Never any other value. The batteries are new enough that somewhere between 90 and 100 might make sense. The SoC value is also a bit wacky. It still seems 10-15% off at times, and when the system is left to sit after the Chargers have gone into float mode or shut off, The SoC reading jumps from, say 80% ish to 100%.

Have a promariner 1240p, and a Victron smartsolar 75/15 charge controller.

Really seems like it hasn't figured out the batteries after almost 2 seasons. Last summer and this summer I have run their quick calibration procedure.
Best to contact Chris Witzgall at Balmar: cwitzgall@cdielectronics.com