Bad Layered Fiberglass?

[hunterkendrick]

Hey everybody, my wife and I are looking at buying this boat, we are very new to sailing. Someone left a YouTube comment under this video of the boat we are looking to buy saying it had bad layered fiberglass.
In your expert opinion, does this boat look like it has bad layered fiberglass? Or any other glaring red flags?
I called the broker and he obviously said there were no soft spots and said it’s just an older boat. The reason it’s priced so low is because the jib sail is ripped and there aren’t any electronics besides the autopilot.
Thanks!

 

[Davidasailor26]

I didn’t see anything that struck me as a big fiberglass problem. Tartan is not known as a low end builder and I’ve never heard of systemic fiberglass problems with them. As always it’s probably worth getting a surveyor to check for any hidden problems though.

 

[dlochner]

Nothing struck me as being odd. The previous owners have taken the time to keep her looking good, clean, woodwork looks good. There were a few oddities, the small apartment sized refrigerator and the seawater strainer for the engine lying on its side.

Unless the boat has an enormous battery bank, that refrigerator will only run when connected to shore power. I've never seen a seawater strainer sitting on its side.

I suspect the cabin sole has been replaced. There is a shot showing the salon and the nicely varnished cabin sole with plastic access ports. That seems an unusual arrangement. Also in the same scene there is an mis match on the cabin soles. The scene is 40 seconds into the video.

Without seeing the boat, it is hard to say what the actual value is. Well, the actual value what someone is will to pay for it. It is interesting that all, but one, of the Tartan 33s on Yachtworld have recently lowered their price. That suggests the market is soft these older boats and the owners and brokers may have unrealistic expectations.

Things I saw that might be holding down the price was the jib, a new one is probably in the $2-3K range, the gas engine, the refrigerator, and the age of the boat. The other boat I took a quick look at seemed to be better equipped for cruising and had solar panels. One has to wonder why the cabin sole was replaced. The other T33 I looked at did not have the plastic inspection ports in the sole. Older boats are also harder to insure, especially in Florida.

Depending on what you intend to do with the boat, it may be a good boat for you, or maybe not. If you decide this might be the boat for you, then be certain to have it surveyed.

Good Luck!

 

[Tally Ho]

For a brand new boat owner, I would highly recommend a survey.

Tartans are generally decent quality boats, but that boat is 43 Years old! Who knows what abuse previous owners have subjected her to?

Give yourself some peace of mind and hire a competent surveyor. You could ask them to keep the cost down by focusing on structural elements of the boat (don’t bother with sails for example).

What is the condition of the engine ? That would be another high-cost issue if the engine was on its last legs.

Greg

 

[jssailem]

WELCOME
You join SBO and put out your first post right before St Patricks Day…

Lucky, or just good timing.

The video shows a nice looking boat that has been detailed and dressed to show. Seeing the images I thought of the way used cars are shined before they go on the lot. It is up to the buyer to look under the hood for signs of damage or parts that will wear out 2 blocks from the dealers lot.

Boats are much the same. The question is what to look for? Well you need to develop a list of priorities.
Here are some ideas.

1. Purpose of a boat… Keep the water on the outside.
   1. This starts at the Hull.. A surveyor will get the boat out of the water and inspect the hull for potential leaks. Through Hulls. Soft spots. Keel/Hull joints. Rudder. Bow.
   2. Deck hardware… Ports (windows). Anything attached that could allow water inside. Etc
2. MAST. That is one big heavy pole that if it falls could ruin your day. The mast itself and the wires/fittings holding it in place
3. Power… Both sails and auxiliary motor.

IF this all sounds foreign to you, get a survey done by a professional you hire not the broker Or a survey that the owner did a couple of years ago.

If you decide to buy the boat the survey will be a tool that will help you with a list of repairs that you will need to consider once the boat is yours.

Good luck.

 

[Hello Below]

@jssailem A competent marine surveyor will certainly answer the OP's question regarding the fiberglass layup. However, IMHO marine surveyors are a jack of all trades and master of none. It has been my experience that it may take additional trades people to determine the condition of the onboard systems (your point 2 and 3) including riggers, marine mechanics. marine electricians and sailmakers. Given the price of the boat the OP is considering and the cost of these folks, the marine surveyor will definitely suffice.

 

[jssailem]

I agree with your thoughts Len.

I view the survey is a cursory look at the boat for a buyer who lacks the knowledge of boat building and safety issues. If you go forward with a purchase, the survey may be required to get insurance.

The other thought, what is the price and can I afford to loose the money should the boat sink. There are an estimated 2300 boats in our marina. They all sit there pretty. Quite a few would be a concern to untie from the dock.

 

[Hello Below]

Things I saw that might be holding down the price was the jib, a new one is probably in the $2-3K range, the gas engine,

@dlochner the yachtworld listing does show a diesel as the engine type.

Here is a short Practical Sailor article for the Tartan 33.
What to Look for When Buying an Old Tartan 33

 

[dlochner]

@dlochner the yachtworld listing does show a diesel as the engine type.

The listing is a bit uncertain. See the screen shot below. Engine listed as a Universal in one place and in another "Atomic Universal 4" in another. Universal built the Atomic 4 and Tartan used them in the 27 and maybe the 33? Comparing photos of the A4 and the engine in the ad, they don't appear similar. In particular the large flywheel the A4 has is not there. Clearly identifying the engine would be important before purchasing the boat.

 

[Tally Ho]

I noticed the advertisement says atomic 4. I watched the video, and assume what I saw was just that…but I have never seen one before…so hard for to tell. Ran quieter than my Yanmar 2GM20F for sure.

I would think that the Atomic 4 would knock the price down some.

Greg

 

[DArcy]

That is NOT an Atomic 4. It is a Universal diesel. The front engine mount is loose, you can see the washer vibrating when the engine starts up.

Be very wary of YouTube comments. This guy says "Bad layered fiberglass And anybody been around boats knows it". I have been around boats my entire life, just like the guys that posted above. Tartan is considered to be a good boat builder and has a reputation for well laid up fiberglass, not "bad layered" (which is not correct terminology). I suspect the guy that wrote that has not actually been around very many boats. With older boats like this (mine is a 1981 as well) how they have been maintained is just as important as initial build quality. From the videos and pictures this Tartan appears to have been reasonably well maintained. If you have a knowledgeable friend that can have a good look over the boat with you it might help your decision.

I would budget several thousand ($4 - 8k) for upgrades and sails, along with some elbow grease. You could get an oil analysis done on the engine if you want some idea of its condition.

 

[jssailem]

A boat of that age will eventually need to have the auxiliary repowered, if not already done. That will take a bite out of your cruising budget. Have a mechanic look at the engine. Just be prepared.

 

[shemandr]

I've sailed quite a bit on Tartan 33's - actually two of them. It's a very good boat with an S&S designed hull with a Shields Keel, which is nice to keep the ballast down low without the drag of wings. It has mildly swept back spreaders and a 7/8 fractional rig.
Both of the ones I sailed on had a Universal diesel engine. One was replaced because a yard mechanic put a wrong threaded oil filter on and it blew off.
I suspect the bad fiberglass comment comes from print thru, which most production boats have. Nothing structural about that.
The video shows a very clean boat. The only scrunch in my facial expression came when the motor was started. The fan belt seemed a bit loose and maybe the crankshaft had a wobble - but I'm not an engine guy.
You don't pass on a good boat because the sails are bad.
Also, the lack of electronics doesn't bother me because typically electronics are obsolete anyway. You have a chance to build a system that works for you.
You'll want to upgrade the battery system and again it's best to start from scratch.
I'm thinking mid twenties for price.

 

[American_Mainsail]

Absolutely, positively, get a pre-purchase survey. Surveying that boat will likely cost < 1 boat buck ($1,000), and I guarantee that you will be much more familiar with what you're getting into before you buy. It could save you thousands, or your entire investment, if there are serious mechanical or structural issues.