Backstay Failure

Jan 11, 2014
11,443
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Well, its only this one ring ding/cotter pin, I can handle it. Amazing how slow we are to learn or lazy. :banghead:
 
Jul 5, 2011
702
Oday 28 Madison, CT
Huh? I used ring type cotter pins for decades and never saw any evidence of them working their way out. I preferred them to the jagged edges of the split cotter pins.
On my first solo in an O'day Daysailer we were tacking and I looked up to see the starboard shroud swinging in the breeze. Brand new boat just rigged by dealer. We tried to get the sail down before the mast toppled, but it did so at the tabernacle, the weak point. We both wound up in the water. The O-ring had worked its way loose, then the clevis of course. It can happen, but if it is a new or healthy o-ring about the only way it should come out is if it was not put all the way in in the first place, which is what I figured happened here. So we motored up the Amityville channel to find the dealer standing on the dock looking at our pile of sails and mast. Being a very service oriented guy he said he could fix it in 10 minutes if we wanted to go back out. We were still shaking and soaked from the experience so we said "no thanks". That was my "initiation" to sailing in 1973.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,443
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I hope you have good insurance. This is could be expensive, it looks like the deck at the mast step has been damaged.

The forestay is not connected to the mast while the back stay is connected. This leads me to believe the forestay failed, where I can't tell. It could be a pin that fell out, it could be a bad swage, it could be the fitting at the mast, it could be the wire. When was the last time the rigging was inspected and replaced?

The best short term course of action is to stabilize the mast as it is and get the boat to a crane and remove the mast. If the deck is damaged, protect it from water getting into the core. Once the mast is on a set of saw horses you'll have a better idea of what caused the failure and whether the mast can be repaired or needs to be replaced. Taking a look at the upper end of the forestay would also be informative.

This is an awful way to end the season, at least you'll have winter to get it repaired for next summer.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,774
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Wow, it seems you had multiple things go wrong pretty much at the same time. Looks like the headstay broke (it could have been the headstay fitting that broke), then the pin came out of the backstay. I can only imagine your rig was way too loose and things just wobbled around until something broke. Might be time to get that stick off of the boat, check that it is undamaged, then if OK rewire the boat with new wire and get a professional rigger to set her up for you. If you can be there and watch and question him, then maybe you can do it yourself after that.
 
Jan 7, 2011
4,789
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Wow, it seems you had multiple things go wrong pretty much at the same time. Looks like the headstay broke (it could have been the headstay fitting that broke), then the pin came out of the backstay. I can only imagine your rig was way too loose and things just wobbled around until something broke. Might be time to get that stick off of the boat, check that it is undamaged, then if OK rewire the boat with new wire and get a professional rigger to set her up for you. If you can be there and watch and question him, then maybe you can do it yourself after that.
Yes...and all along I thought we were talking about a Hunter 285 (in the OP’s
Do you have the Beneteau or a Hunter, as per your avatar?
yeah...I thought we were talking about a Hunter 285. Photos are a Bene 35.

Greg
 
Apr 29, 2012
216
Beneteau 35s5 bristol ri

All rings need to be covered with self amalgamating rigging tape. That short end can of wire that sticks out be caught by a flailing sheet and pulled out. I’ve personally seen it happen.

Split rings without straight sections can be easily deformed by flailing sheets, and can be pulled out too.

in short, rings are more likely to be damaged than cotter pins, and require more frequent inspections and taping to remain safe.
Any attempt to describe the mode of failure is pure conjecture at this time, given the paucity of information.
I posted some photos and a description of how I found her. Is it not possible that when the backstay clevis fell out it contributed to the failure of the forestay? In big chop when the boat sinks into a traugh the forestay can become slack and when the boat bob's up out of the trough there would be great strain on the forestay?
 
Apr 29, 2012
216
Beneteau 35s5 bristol ri
Just to get a better picture of the situation here.
It's a 1990 Beneteau 35s5. Just upgraded last year. The only part of the boat that was not surveyed was the standing rigging aloft. Lesson learned! Good thing I have coverage and world class riggers here in Newport RI.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
What is the condition of the forestay? Did the wire rope part? Or did the upper pin come out?
 
Apr 29, 2012
216
Beneteau 35s5 bristol ri
I haven't seen it yet. I pulled it out of the water and tied it up down. Hopefully the yard will step it Friday.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,748
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
I posted some photos and a description of how I found her. Is it not possible that when the backstay clevis fell out it contributed to the failure of the forestay? In big chop when the boat sinks into a traugh the forestay can become slack and when the boat bob's up out of the trough there would be great strain on the forestay?
Yes.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Jan 19, 2010
1,172
Catalina 34 Casco Bay
At our club we have our own hoist to step and unstep masts. The lack of knowledge of the rig on some members boats is astonishing ! I'm talking peeps with 20 or 30 YEARS sailing experience. Often they join after having a yard tend to their boats for years. They have little or no idea as to how to tune their rig. In an effort to edify the newbies we now require their participation in multiple stepping/unstepping operations BEFORE their boat can be stepped or unstepped. We have found: under sized clevis pins, no or undersized cotter or ring pins, household curtain rod bolts ( seriously), electrical tape, duct tape, plastic wire ties and baling wire.
In the spring when we are stepping, it is always amusing to see what lost parts causing the latest dither.. Can't even begin to guess how many clevis pin, retainers, pliers, turnbuckles and other associated items rest at the bottom of the stepping float.
The process is really quite simple. Hoist the mast with someone in control of the backstay, someone has the furler, a line attached to the port upper allows a person on the float to control the mast top and 2 on the butt. Pin the furler, backstay both uppers and move out for the next boat...
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,078
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
In the photos the forestay/furler are overboard with the spool still in place on the bow. Looking at the end of the forestay that is in the water should tell the story. Likewise what's left on the mast would too. Do we need to start a pool here? Put me down for a failed swage on the upper forestay.
 
Mar 20, 2016
594
Beneteau 351 WYC Whitby
Huh? I used ring type cotter pins for decades and never saw any evidence of them working their way out. I preferred them to the jagged edges of the split cotter pins.
Me too, I've used them and have never had one come off or loose . I can tell you as a millwright for 40 years they are stronger then a cotter pin. They are temperd spring stainless steel and are twice as strong
 
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Jan 1, 2006
7,078
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I don't want to belabor this but wouldn't it be true that if you bend SS cotter pin you would work harden it? How is that secure?
 
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