Backfill and odor on Jabsco, Beneteau 43

[Mark Rickey]

We have a new (2007) Beneteau 43 with the Jabsco manual toilet in the aft head. I have had backfill to the bowl problems since I recomissioned it this spring. I have checked the flapper valve as well as the joker valve, cleaned, used vegetable oil, etc. and still have backfill. Then i changed the joker valve and the backfill problem went away...for a few weeks. Now it is back. what else should i check?

Also, we don't use raw water to fill the bowl. In fact, the raw water through hull is closed and we use fresh water from the shower instead. The intent here is to keep the odor of Chesapeake Bay water out of the boat. Despite that, I am beginning to smell that smell under the starboard seat cushions, that I had on my old Hunter 34. Do I need to replace the hoses already?!?!?

This is new equipment. I would expect it to work for more than a year.

Thanks

 

[Bill Murray]

check the vent ....

sounds lie a back pressure problem - yes even on a new boat! Is your tank full? Did you let it get full before you emptied it recently? If so, it is very likely a plugged vent. Good luck - one of my 410's vents is impossible to disassemble at the outboard end!

Check out Peggy Hall's expert writings on the subject on this site - and buy her book!

 

[Rick I]

Beneteaus with Jabscos

are notorious for joker valve problems. Don't know what it is but they all seem to have them, more often than not it's the aft head. On my B I've changed them out regularly. I have another boat (CS) with the same head, no joker valve problem.

 

[Peggie Hall-HeadMistress]

The problem isn't with the toilet, it's the plumbing and the user

And replacing the joker valve isn't the solution. And while I agree with your recommendations, Bill, I doubt that backpressure is the problem.

Because liquids run downhill, backflow occurs if waste or flush water is left sitting in a line that runs uphill to the tank. And it will do that no matter what toilet you have because water does run downhill. (So Rick, the reason it did on one boat but not another is due to the way it's plumbed). The joker valve isn't supposed to block it, only slow down a major inrush of water (sea water actually, from the days when toilets could be flushed directly overboard). A new one MIGHT block it completely for a very short time, but only till enough flushes have gone through it to stretch the slit even the smallest amount. The slow seepage begins to occur...increasing as the joker valve becomes more worn.

The solution: flush long enough in the dry mode to move the bowl contents all the way to the tank. Any toilet that's working anywhere close to factory spec can move bowl contents at least 6 linear feet and up to 4' vertical feet in the dry mode. No waste or water left in the line, none will run back downhill to the bowl. But as long users continue to leave waste or water in a line that runs uphill to a tank, replacing the joker valve is only a band-aid...it's not the cure.

If the tank is more than 6' from the bowl, the solution becomes a loop in the discharge line immediately after the toilet that's just slightly higher than tank inlet fitting. Then it's only necessary to pump long enough in the dry mode to move the bowl contents over the top of the loop...gravity will get it the rest of the way to the tank.

And btw, learning to use the dry mode to do more than just remove the last bit of water from the bowl will also increase the number of flushes a tank can hold by 50% or more because you aren't filling it up with flush water.

There's also a MUCH better, easier way to avoid INTAKE sea water odors than using the shower head (no, not a chemical inline device)...but that's another topic. You'll find plenty of information about how to do that if you search the HM forum archives.

 

[Paul Mermelstein]

Ok Peggy, what is it?

Peggy, you mention that "there is a better way to MUCH better, easier way to avoid INTAKE sea water odors than using the shower head". What is that?

By the way, I have your book and it is excellent.

Thanks.

Paul

 

[Mark Rickey]

squirts back at me sometimes

Thanks Peggie, Rick and Bill. We have tried pumping dry for a while and that does eliminate some of the problem, though there is still some backflow (which I can live with). However, from time to time, when pumping dry, the darned thing squirts back at you and, well, you can imagine the rest. Is this a sign of another problem (perhaps faulty flapper valve)?

 

[Peggie Hall-HeadMistress]

If the toilet spits up or burbs, check your tank vent

Backflow or backfilling is one thing...a "burp" or "spit up" is an indication of a pressurized system that's pushing back against pumping the toilet. So is a toilet that becomes increasingly harder to pump. A blocked tank vent will cause a system to become pressurized, because air in the tank displaced by incoming waste that SHOULD escape through the vent has nowhere else to go but back through the toilet.

Keeping the vent clear is an essential part of sanitation system maintenance (Surprise: sanitation systems REQUIRE maintenance if you want to prevent problems instead of being forced to solve 'em one at a time at the most inconvenient times...and the toilet is rarely the source of any problem).

Paul, you have my book. But apparently you haven't read it yet or you'd know it's in there. And I've described it here more times than I can count, so you should be able to find it if you search the archives.

 

[Mark Rickey]

Thanks

Thanks Peggie...I'm buying the book.

 

[Steve Dion]

holding tanks above the head?

Mark:

I assume that your holding tank/s are above the head? I have seen this in some of the Bennies.

The newer Jabsco's have a lock out feature the locks the joker value in place. It may be that most of these boats are used in areas where they do not have holding tanks so it is not much of a problem. When you have a holding tank you need to rethink the setup.

 

[EatDrinkHealthy]

Tank inlet

I like to add.

My CS30 has a head hose going along the starboard side into the tank. The entry into the tank also on the starboard side. What were they thinking? When the boat heels to starboard and the tank is quite full, the nasty stuff will flow back even with a fairly new joker valve.

I re-routed the hose to go into the tank from amid ship. So it doesn't matter which way it heel it won't flow back. I also shortened the up loop, like Peggy suggested, so the pump doesn't have to pump a long way to get the stuff to the tank. Gravity will do that. Because there is very little water stays in the up loop, even if it backflows it is just a small amount and most of which is just water anyway.

 

[Mike - Papillon]

Spitting back

I too have a Benny with a Jabsco head. I've made a habit of pumping as much as possible in the dry mode to clear the discharge line as Peggy recommends. I've learned that once you have 99% of the water out of the bowl it will spit back at you. At this point there's little to no pressure on the pump handle. I believe the spitting is due to the pump pushing air not water back towards the bowl. Whatever the cause I know when the last few pumps start to make a gurgling sound it's time to stop pumping or be prepared to get splashed.
Mike

 

[Mike B]

How does she handle?

Mark, not to hijack this thread but how do you like the 43? Have you had her out in rough water yet? If so how does she handle? What do you like/dislike about her?
Thanks
Mike