Back to School?

[Gary]

Silly question

Of course we should ensure people on the water in boats have a basic degree of competency. It is fairly obvious on a holiday weekend when the pleasure boaters are rushing back home that many just don't get the basics of traffic management, collision regulations, communications, navigation, tides and weather.

 

[henkmeuzelaar]

The fastest way to lose one's freedom....

is to become obsessed with it.Once you are truly obsessed with it; only death can set you free.Freedom is primarily a state of mind and only secondarily a product of circumstances. Once you are free you are ready to become a true sailor; rather than the other way around.(just quoting an old Dutch philosopher ) )

 

[tom]

No question about education

I've taken several courses. The question is "do we want the government having even more control of our lives?". "Should we always be treated as children or do we at some point in life become adult human beings with the ability to make decisions and with responsiblity for our actions". Will having some government employee with two weeks of training testing a 60 year old boater with 30 years experience make us safer??? Imagine a pimply faced USCG recruit from Montana,just out of basic training drilling a leather faced grandfather that's lived and sailed near Mobile all his life about weather and crab pots in Mobile bay. Or having safety requirements appropriate for the ocean off San Francisco being imposed upon Mobile Bay sailors. >>> It's absolutely required that you have cold exposure suits onboard year round and a depth sounder capable of reading 200' depths.OK I'm getting a little too dramatic. But keep big brother off of my back ..please. I promise to be as safe as possible and read my Chapman's 30 minutes every night before bed.

 

[Dennis Clark]

Beneficial

I remember when I obtained my motorcycle license. Many individuals when tested didactically and on a road course not only learned that they did have deficiencies but, also some reconsidered their intent to obtain such a license. I think it makes one look at the safe way and responsible way to operate a vessel and binds them to a legal obligation to adhere to safety regulations. The waterways, like our highways are more and more crowded. A basic safety course would possibly uncover some ideas or options that are available to boaters. It's beaurocratic in nature but, can increase awareness and safety.

 

[Steve Baker]

Training is Great Theory

As a member of the United States Power Squadron which has offered boating safety courses for many years, I think training is a way to make the waters safer for all users.Unfortunately I usually finish a class with the warning that "now you know the rules, just remember that the others on the water may not have had the class"

 

[Brian Bailey]

Back to School

I believe there should be some type of mandatory basic boating skills such as at least what the coast Guard Auxillary offers for those who choose to take the course. I live at the intracoastal waterway in North Carolina and I am absolutley amazed at some of the activity I see taking place out on the waters, both small vessels as well a yachters. Especially but not limited to kids or teenagers who know nothing about the rules of the road and have caused or have come close to causing water accidents which turns in to "water rage" just like the road rage incidents we all either see or here about. There is a lot to boating such as docking procedures or even knowing how to stay in a channel and the rediculous operators I see right from my house at times makes me be a supporter of a type of mandatory wriiten test before anyone can operate a boat at all no matter what size. I don't agree with an online test for you never know who is actually taking the test, however there are community college courses available and a certificate of a passing grade should be necessary I believe before you should be able to operate. This could be controlled by the Coast Guard patrol of which are out there mainly during the season looking randomly for the drunks operating a vesel. I could go on and on about this but will stop at this point, That's my opinion and has been for years

 

[Jeff M21319]

Freedom is a double edged sword

I can certainly understand those who hate the further intrusion of the government in our lives, as I personally think the government, for the most part-SUCKS! Our rights and freedoms are violated on a regular basis and unless your rich, famous or a member of the government there's not much you can do to stop it. But... shouldn't I have the freedom to take my boat out and not be run over by some jerk in a ski boat going 40kts in 'no wake' zone? While I think that education is a great thing, I wouldn't really care if they just gave a boat license to anybody who could pass a simple 20 question 'multiple guess' type test. The idea would be that you have a PRIVELEGE that can be taken away if your behavior is so poor that you are a danger to others, just like we do with cars. (how would you like to drive on a freeway where nobody had a license they were afraid of losing?) I don't think licensing would take away my freedoms, it would add to them becuase it would help get that 5-10% of idiots off the water. BTW Fred, loved the idea about the 30.06 and the night scope, maybe we could get it sanctioned as a league and have different catagories, like small bore/large bore, optical/open sights, etc!

 

[Bob Davidson]

The life you save may be your own

Sailing since age seven, US Coast Guard at age 19 owner of many saiboats since and a current c22 owner at age 59. I have learned & forgotten more about the Sea and the rules of right of way then most. Passing a competancy test would be an easy thing for me to do but would also let me know that another boater would also be at a standard of knowledge of these things I can rely on. That would not only make my boating experience more pleasant but safer. My vote is yes to a test with any fees going toward boating safety.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

A small point about rules

My high school sociology teacher ('60s) made a point in class about laws. He maintained (and proved to the class) that more laws equal more freedom. Most laws, and all good laws, stop or prohibit bad people from doing bad things, giving the good (us) more freedom. It made sense then, and as a retired police officer, well, I can't think of too many exceptions. In a democracy the overwhelming majority of people go about their lives with no regard for rules and regulations. They just follow the golden rule. The problem we, as a group, are having with laws is that there are so many of them. We have not found a way to 'sunset' the old ones.

 

[Bob Davidson]

The right laws mean more freedom

We run our country on basic English Law. That has been used for hundreds of years. If we are to sunset old laws, which ones and how many. My point is as your sociology teacher made in the 60's. More laws do give law abidding citizens more freedon. They also educate and promote safety for you and your loved ones, mine too. I'm for that!

 

[Steve G.]

Wanna Waste Money?

I am absolutely, positively, 100% for safe boating. We need to divide the issues; 1) Everyone should know basic seamanship, right of way, etc. That is a given. 2) Any time you allow the government to put their paws into something you will, repeat will, waste money. Have you seen the test for operating a personal watercraft? Silly, or what? No wonder they are predominantly used by half-wits. There's another side to it also: a select few were simply born without common courtesy. Like the 60' powerboats that pass 100' away at 20 kts. There's one "experienced" sailor around my way that believes there are no exceptions to the "under sail - right of way" rule and cuts across the narrow channel to the mooring field in his twelve-foot centerboarder giving dirty looks to anyone trying to come in or out. I draw 7' and need that channel depth. He's almost met the business end of my plow anchor a few times. These people could pass any government test. What would they learn? Anchored at a recent airshow, I yelled at a Coast Guard boat for throwing a wake.EVERY BOATER NEEDS TO TAKE IN ON THEMSELF TO OPERATE IN A SAFE MANNER. Everyone should have certification. If they get into trouble and don't hold certification, they should be held accountable.There are, of course, a few knuckleheads who buy boats without any knowledge at all, and use them. They call MAYDAY because their oil light is on. This is a problem, but I don't see the government helping.

 

[Ellis David Hay]

IT WOULD MAKE THE PLAYING FIELD LEVEL

THIS REQUIREMENT IS STATED, REQUIRED, SUGGESTED OR INTENDED FOR ALL PEOPLE WHO TRAVEL.... THERE ARE RULES, RIGHT OF WAY AND GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP FOR THOES WHO TRAVEL REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS BY LAND, SEA OR AIR...

 

[Pirate]

Freedom!

I don't think there should be any laws that limit our freedom to operate any vehicle. I should be able to fly an airliner if I can afford to by one ... Come ON people ... get a grip! What's the big deal? If you are going to be a member of society, you must assume responsibility for your actions. If your chosen activity involves putting other members of society at risk, the society has the right to protect itself from you.Licensing is a joke, what we need is a certification process. Why should a rescue team have to take risks for some moron that can't operate a vehicle? Why should we have to worry about the qualifications of other operators? If a Licensing or Certification program keeps one drunken bubba from harming themselves or the people that are dumb enough to be passengers, it is worth the tiny hassle of getting a license.It's not about YOU, it's about THEM. THEY should have to be certified so that YOU know that they know the rules and will react correctly in any given situation. The problem is that YOU are one of THEM unless you are on my boat. I'm one of THEM to you. Shouldn't we BOTH have to be certified?When was the last time you got a VHF response from any non-commercial vessel? How many times have you had to wonder what the other boat will do in a crossing situation? How many times have you watched an obviously incompetent skipper try to make a landing or anchor?If/when these idiots get into trouble they call the Coast Guard ... just like they call AAA when they have a flat or run out of gas. If someone choses to operate without certification they should bear the cost of rescue. If (God forbid) a rescuer dies trying to help, the operator should be tried for manslaughter. No need to make it mandatory, just allow the insurance companies to charge 100 times the cost of training and certification to those that think they don't need it.I hold a BC Pleasure Craft Operator Card. It cost $35 CAD and about 30 minutes of my time to take the test. I scored 98% with NO study, but I have 40 years of on the water experience. Judging from the long faces of many of the people, there were quite a few that didn't pass ... that SCARES me.Sorry for the rant, but there are too many idiots out there.Randy

 

[Pirate]

Re: Wanna Waste Money?

"There are, of course, a few knuckleheads who buy boats without any knowledge at all, and use them. They call MAYDAY because their oil light is on. This is a problem, but I don't see the government helping."Money? How many safe boating classes could the government run for the cost of ONE MAYDAY response? How many fewer MAYDAY's would there be?It's your tax money ... what would you rather pay for?Just a thought

 

[Howard Edson]

Yes on mandatory boat training

Gail and I moved to CT last year and in spite of being seniors and long-time sailors, we were "forced" by law to take the mandatory boat training. I was initially mildly skeptical, but I reviewed some things and learned some others, and the day was worthwhile.Both the couse content and our instructors were excellent, and these are the two keys to the program's acceptance by the public. Rich graphic presentations of subjects such as rules of the road would make it more challenging and embed the learning better. And just maybe a few more people would abide by them. Hope springs eternal. Enforcement of speed limits on the Connecticut River would help too!!!

 

[Bob Early]

Governmental Control guarantees failure (IMHO)

IM(ns)HO,If licensing, like with automobiles, would work, then why is the automobile the #1 killer in our society?If Government license, control or regulation would work, then why so many scandals in insurance, banking and stock markets; each of which are the epitome of 'government regulation and control'?Apparently not many recall the debacle in the banking industry when some banks (small mid-west) were forced into bankrupcty, and others (State Street Bank of Boston) were bailed out with taxpayer money.I would agree that education would be a key point, but then, borrwing a page from the Liquor Laws, anyone licensed to "boat", if found to be causing accidents, we could sue not the boat owner but the licensing bureau for dereliction of THEIR duty to properly train and license the boat owner.I would think a properly examined skipper could be put into a 30 foot sailboat, take away the electronic gizmos and radios, and when they come back from <someplace far away> be granted the privilege of boat skipper certification, having only traditional manual instruments to guide them. (Stars, sun, moon, currents, compass, charts, etc.)The sea has it's way of taking care of the partial and total idiots? N'es Pas ?If licensing were required, then I think the Coast Guard should describe the requirements for all waters. Should that include foreign vessels as well, (see also http://www.sleavin.org/) ? ? ?Just a few ideas . . .Bobs/v Second Nature

 

[Fred]

Who will regulate ???

Dont give the state of MA. any ideas for new revenue sources. Next they will require a license with yearly renual.

 

[Steve G.]

re:response> Pirate

That, as I see it, is the problem. We do need to make the waters more safe, but I don't feel that the government's basic course would help alot. Ergo, it would waste money. I agree with your idea about certification vs. liscencing, and am all for accountability. It won't stop the drunks. Let's take a more positive approach. Maybe you trust your senators more than I do.Happy Sailing

 

[Ron Butler]

Boating Certification

First, let me say that I am more and more leaning towards a training and licensing of boaters. I will also admit that it may not solve all of the problems on the water because drivers licenses don't solve all of the driving problems that we encounter. Since most boating accidents are male drownings with their fly open, I'm not sure that licensing them will reduce their immediate need of eliminating the excess beer that they have been drinking anyway! I don't see them as a threat to my safety while I am cruising on Puget Sound and further north!Would it be effective in reducing accidents? Probably not, if the process doesn't include a way to have the applicate demonstrate their ability to read charts, know where the rocks and reefs aare, plot position using time, distance and speed, read depths from the chart etc. It would also have to include anchoring procedures and etiquette along with what wakes from their floating barges doing 15+ knots do to sailboats and other small craft!I do think that laws should be more stringent in those two areas and hope that the operator would think twice about the consequences of their actions.Is it more bureacracy? Of course, but it may be needed, if the incompetant operator is putting other boaters at risk. I think there is more of a problem from small high speed craft on lakes and rivers that run the risk of loosing control than to those of us that cruise in more open waters. Those problems seem to come from parents allowing their kids to raise havoc without the proper training, supervision and respect to other boaters! However, I am also concerned about the person who charters a boat once a year (usually a large Bayliner type!) and only needs to show the money to the charter company!! The same goes for the newly rich that walks into the broker with their bank roll and buys the biggest boat they want with no prior experience boating!I guess it is for the last several concerns that I favor a testing, licensing process.Ron ButlerS/V LothlorienTacoma WA.

 

[Paul Michaelis]

Licensing....nuts

If we require the same level of operator competency of boaters/sailors that is required of automobile drivers, we are in big trouble. For autos, in some states, even the parallel parking test has been eliminated. Most drivers don't even know how to properly apply ABS brakes that are there to save their hides. How are the same powers that be going to evaluate boaters? Sailors are probably the least of the waterborn problems, although I have seen a lot of stupidity amongst them. Power boaters shouldn't be allowed in go-fast boats until they can prove some level of competence (and maybe intelligence). For the record, I have both a sailboat and powerboat so I can comment on either issue.