According to a recent article in Pacific Yachting, 31 out of 50 states in the U.S. require boaters to pass some kind of boating education class and/or competency test. Do you think these types of regulations are effective in improving the competency of boaters overall and in reducing boating accident rates? Do you think the laws should be made more stringent with more involved education and tougher testing? Or do you think they are just more bureaucracy and a waste of time and taxpayer money? Share your views (constructively!) on mandatory boater education and be sure to vote in the Quick Quiz at the bottom of the home page. (Quiz by Gary Wyngarden)
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Ins and Outs
This is a most interesting thread. One of the neat things about boating is that anyone can get into the sport from a variety of different starting points. I think it would be a shame to limit just like auto licensing...especially as it has to do with age. Perhaps a better analogous licensing procedure would be that utilized by amateur radio. Age is not a primary issue, and different levels of competence are recognized. Most importantly, the amateur radio community is primarily responsible for "policing" itself, and seems to have done so quite well for many decades. In my own experiences, I find newbies and youngsters to be some of the easiest people to get along with on the water (excepting a few idiots on jetskis). The people who seem to be the most difficult to deal with are those (1) with more money than they know what to do with, (2) more boat than they need or know how to handle, and/or (3) a general attitude that the waters of the world are theirs exclusively. You know them...people who boat more for status than for pleasure. Then there are the drunks (and otherwise impaired). I know highly intelligent people who are booksmart, but very poor boaters, and "good ole boys" who have difficulty reading road signs but are some of the best common-sense boaters on the water. Though some basic education about the "rules of the road", general safety, radio conduct, etc. could certainly not hurt anything...to say the least...no amount of education will alleviate general rudeness or incompetence caused by substance abuse or exceeding one's own limitations. Part of me would like the comfort of knowing that everyone I encounter on the water is a "trained pilot", but another part of me likes the freedom enjoyed on the water...one of the last traditional freedoms enjoyed worldwide, so far as I know. Then there's always the aspect that anything the government gets overly involved in gets totally screwed up, too! Good food for thought. I will enjoy reading all of the responses to this thread. SZ
This is a most interesting thread. One of the neat things about boating is that anyone can get into the sport from a variety of different starting points. I think it would be a shame to limit just like auto licensing...especially as it has to do with age. Perhaps a better analogous licensing procedure would be that utilized by amateur radio. Age is not a primary issue, and different levels of competence are recognized. Most importantly, the amateur radio community is primarily responsible for "policing" itself, and seems to have done so quite well for many decades. In my own experiences, I find newbies and youngsters to be some of the easiest people to get along with on the water (excepting a few idiots on jetskis). The people who seem to be the most difficult to deal with are those (1) with more money than they know what to do with, (2) more boat than they need or know how to handle, and/or (3) a general attitude that the waters of the world are theirs exclusively. You know them...people who boat more for status than for pleasure. Then there are the drunks (and otherwise impaired). I know highly intelligent people who are booksmart, but very poor boaters, and "good ole boys" who have difficulty reading road signs but are some of the best common-sense boaters on the water. Though some basic education about the "rules of the road", general safety, radio conduct, etc. could certainly not hurt anything...to say the least...no amount of education will alleviate general rudeness or incompetence caused by substance abuse or exceeding one's own limitations. Part of me would like the comfort of knowing that everyone I encounter on the water is a "trained pilot", but another part of me likes the freedom enjoyed on the water...one of the last traditional freedoms enjoyed worldwide, so far as I know. Then there's always the aspect that anything the government gets overly involved in gets totally screwed up, too! Good food for thought. I will enjoy reading all of the responses to this thread. SZ
Safe boating education with taxpayer money
In New Jersey boaters under a certain age most pass a safe boating class given by the Coast Guard Auxiliary. The boater pays a nominal fee for the class. The Coast Guard Auxiliary volunteers its time to teach the class. The only cost to the tax payer is processing the ID cards given to boaters that pass. As waterway become more and more crowded, the need for safe boating education programs becomes imperative. I have read about boater fire guns at other boaters.
In New Jersey boaters under a certain age most pass a safe boating class given by the Coast Guard Auxiliary. The boater pays a nominal fee for the class. The Coast Guard Auxiliary volunteers its time to teach the class. The only cost to the tax payer is processing the ID cards given to boaters that pass. As waterway become more and more crowded, the need for safe boating education programs becomes imperative. I have read about boater fire guns at other boaters.
Bureaucracy
I don't believe the creation of another goverment agency is the solution. It will just go to create jobs and collect fees with very little results. Written tests are no substitute for on the water experience. Theorical material learned through the use of memory does not last long. Let the agencies who are currently publishing seamanship pamphlets continue to do so and those that perform on the water and at ramps inspections continue to do so. The problem is operator's attitude and motor vehicle mandatory licensing has not solved that yet. Don't anticipate mandatory boat testing would do either.
I don't believe the creation of another goverment agency is the solution. It will just go to create jobs and collect fees with very little results. Written tests are no substitute for on the water experience. Theorical material learned through the use of memory does not last long. Let the agencies who are currently publishing seamanship pamphlets continue to do so and those that perform on the water and at ramps inspections continue to do so. The problem is operator's attitude and motor vehicle mandatory licensing has not solved that yet. Don't anticipate mandatory boat testing would do either.
mandatory training
I support mandatory education but would have liked to see the word"minimal" replaced with "reasonable amount".I feel all boaters need to be educated (at least once)with the hopes that some of it sticks with them and reflects how they operate there vessel.The logistics of on the water training and compentance testing just become very restrictive and more "big brother" in my mind.However with a reasonable amount of class room training (my idea of reasonable is 8 to 10 hours for a pleasure operator) new operators have more then just the basics.My home state (CT.) reguires a mandatory safe boating course before they will issue a certificate to operate a boat.I feel that it is reasonable. We have all witnessed boaters who just don't have a clue what they are doing and while mandatory training will not stop this it will cut down on it and hopefully make the waters safer for everyone.All in all not a lot to ask considering all the enjoyment safe boating brings!
I support mandatory education but would have liked to see the word"minimal" replaced with "reasonable amount".I feel all boaters need to be educated (at least once)with the hopes that some of it sticks with them and reflects how they operate there vessel.The logistics of on the water training and compentance testing just become very restrictive and more "big brother" in my mind.However with a reasonable amount of class room training (my idea of reasonable is 8 to 10 hours for a pleasure operator) new operators have more then just the basics.My home state (CT.) reguires a mandatory safe boating course before they will issue a certificate to operate a boat.I feel that it is reasonable. We have all witnessed boaters who just don't have a clue what they are doing and while mandatory training will not stop this it will cut down on it and hopefully make the waters safer for everyone.All in all not a lot to ask considering all the enjoyment safe boating brings!
Whats needed
I am licensed in CT as is my wife. Every day I sail I see powerboaters in boats registered in CT doing dumb things endangering themselves and others. Did they go to the class? Just last year a large power boat came up the Housatonic River in a steerage only zone going so fast his bow was in the air and he was heading straight for a kayaker who he couldn't see. Luckily my friend was able to get him on the radio and ward him. Boats routinely fly up and down steerage only and no wake zones, and the police do nothing. Enforcement of the existing rules, particularly regarding speed and lookouts (ie going below and leaving the boat on autopilot at full speed) is what is needed. *box
I am licensed in CT as is my wife. Every day I sail I see powerboaters in boats registered in CT doing dumb things endangering themselves and others. Did they go to the class? Just last year a large power boat came up the Housatonic River in a steerage only zone going so fast his bow was in the air and he was heading straight for a kayaker who he couldn't see. Luckily my friend was able to get him on the radio and ward him. Boats routinely fly up and down steerage only and no wake zones, and the police do nothing. Enforcement of the existing rules, particularly regarding speed and lookouts (ie going below and leaving the boat on autopilot at full speed) is what is needed. *box
I Teach These Classes
Even so I do not think they are the magic bullet that will solve the problem with all the idiots that are out there. I am sure they do some good and I encourage everyone to find a good course and sign up everyone you take out on your boat. Education is not the single solution after all if enforcement is lacking who knows if the boater out there good or bad has had his training.
Even so I do not think they are the magic bullet that will solve the problem with all the idiots that are out there. I am sure they do some good and I encourage everyone to find a good course and sign up everyone you take out on your boat. Education is not the single solution after all if enforcement is lacking who knows if the boater out there good or bad has had his training.
Absouletly train & Test Everyone
As a member of the USCGAux, Vessel Inspector and Boating Course Instructor the need for competancy on the water is absoulutly necessary. 3-day weekends with boaters who have minimal understanding of the nav. rules and are under the influence of alcohol are a hazard to all on the water. I stopped a pontoon boat which had 12 members of a Pakistani family on board. Only 4 were wearing life jackets, and none of these were kids. They did not know how to operate the vessel and the rental company should be cited for contributing to a hazzard on the water. Sorry to be on such a soapbox, but I don't want to loose my wife or sailboat to some bonehead who is drunk and doesnt know what he is doing. Peaple griped and b***hed about seat belt laws, but they save lives. Maybe we can bring down fatailities on the water. If you ever had to haul a dead body from the water you would understand. I don't want to do it again. Take a course, get your vessel inspected, and operate your vessel safely. I don't want to explain to your wife and/ or parents that I need for them to come down to identify a body after a prop has cut them in two. USCGAux Member and 30 year sailor
As a member of the USCGAux, Vessel Inspector and Boating Course Instructor the need for competancy on the water is absoulutly necessary. 3-day weekends with boaters who have minimal understanding of the nav. rules and are under the influence of alcohol are a hazard to all on the water. I stopped a pontoon boat which had 12 members of a Pakistani family on board. Only 4 were wearing life jackets, and none of these were kids. They did not know how to operate the vessel and the rental company should be cited for contributing to a hazzard on the water. Sorry to be on such a soapbox, but I don't want to loose my wife or sailboat to some bonehead who is drunk and doesnt know what he is doing. Peaple griped and b***hed about seat belt laws, but they save lives. Maybe we can bring down fatailities on the water. If you ever had to haul a dead body from the water you would understand. I don't want to do it again. Take a course, get your vessel inspected, and operate your vessel safely. I don't want to explain to your wife and/ or parents that I need for them to come down to identify a body after a prop has cut them in two. USCGAux Member and 30 year sailor
if anything a course
in courtesy and good manners would solve most boating problems I see. unfortunely there is no cure for stupidity, someone mentioned those with more money than sense. that is a real big problem around here. people seem to think that because they can afford a large boat they have the skills to pilot it, WRONG!
in courtesy and good manners would solve most boating problems I see. unfortunely there is no cure for stupidity, someone mentioned those with more money than sense. that is a real big problem around here. people seem to think that because they can afford a large boat they have the skills to pilot it, WRONG!
Only One Certain Solution
The only certain solution is swift execution of all Jetskiers and other powerboat violators. Their heads should then be put on top of a day mark for everyone else to see as a warning. I figure that only a couple in each area at the beginning of each season would be needed to keep everyone in line.
The only certain solution is swift execution of all Jetskiers and other powerboat violators. Their heads should then be put on top of a day mark for everyone else to see as a warning. I figure that only a couple in each area at the beginning of each season would be needed to keep everyone in line.
Right-on
Hear Hear! I think the jet-ski accident will drop to zero... as well as the idiots whot purchase them.
Hear Hear! I think the jet-ski accident will drop to zero... as well as the idiots whot purchase them.
Required Safety Equipment
Isn't the flare gun for the idiots??? (tongue in cheek) That is what they told me at the sailing center after a run in with a sail boarder that dumped RIGHT in front of me (no injury or damage, just elevated blood pressure).....
Isn't the flare gun for the idiots??? (tongue in cheek) That is what they told me at the sailing center after a run in with a sail boarder that dumped RIGHT in front of me (no injury or damage, just elevated blood pressure).....
Better Than Nothing
For safe operation of watercraft I don't see any subsitute for experience and time at the helm. However, if a person is made to take a course before operating a vessel, then it has to be at least one step in the right direction. A person who will bother to take a course is at least displaying a genuine interest in boating, and not just satisfying a sudden desire to run amuck in a skiboat.
For safe operation of watercraft I don't see any subsitute for experience and time at the helm. However, if a person is made to take a course before operating a vessel, then it has to be at least one step in the right direction. A person who will bother to take a course is at least displaying a genuine interest in boating, and not just satisfying a sudden desire to run amuck in a skiboat.
Operator Certification
I have been teaching Boating Safety courses for 10 years with the US Power Squadron. Here in CT. an operator is required to complete an approved Safe boating course before operating a boat. Approved in CT generally means Coast Guard, USPS, DEP course 8 hours long minimum with a separate jet ski course. Is it enough probably not. I have seen some pretty insane things happening on Long Island Sound and Lake Candlwood by certified boaters.But it is better then nothing, the fatality statistics seem to bear this out. It will never cease to amaze me when my "students" eyes glaze over as if you are talking a strange unintelligible language of "red light returning" or having them go through the mechanics of tying a simple bowline. Watching them and realizing that in a few short hours they will be "out there" with their cards and everything from a kayak to a small "aircraft carrier" can be very sobering. But we have to start somewhere and if teaching and certifying an operator makes the water a little safer then we need more not less of this.
I have been teaching Boating Safety courses for 10 years with the US Power Squadron. Here in CT. an operator is required to complete an approved Safe boating course before operating a boat. Approved in CT generally means Coast Guard, USPS, DEP course 8 hours long minimum with a separate jet ski course. Is it enough probably not. I have seen some pretty insane things happening on Long Island Sound and Lake Candlwood by certified boaters.But it is better then nothing, the fatality statistics seem to bear this out. It will never cease to amaze me when my "students" eyes glaze over as if you are talking a strange unintelligible language of "red light returning" or having them go through the mechanics of tying a simple bowline. Watching them and realizing that in a few short hours they will be "out there" with their cards and everything from a kayak to a small "aircraft carrier" can be very sobering. But we have to start somewhere and if teaching and certifying an operator makes the water a little safer then we need more not less of this.
Some sort of license is needed
Here in Kalifornia, where no training or license is required, you can go to any lake or river used by boaters on a busy weekend and watch so many acts of random stupidity and carelessness that it's scary. Probably the worst offenders are those whose first experience in a boat involved 400+ HP and wanting to see 'how fast will it go'. I've seen enough people hauled out of the water after an accident to know that something needs to be done. Heck, you have to take a class and pass a test for a lot of things, driving a car or motorcycle, flying a plane, buying a gun, being a contractor, etc. I don't see why boating should be any different. The other good thing about licensing is that you can TAKE IT AWAY from those who refuse to follow the rules. 10% of the people cause 90% of the problems, so let's get that 10% off the water. I'll bet if they had to leave their monster speed boat in the driveway for a summer or two they'd learn to place nice. I also agree with the poster who thought maybe we could handle this the same way we handle ham licenses, with a basic license that lets you drive a boat with an engine of 20 HP or less, the next grade would let you drive a boat with up to 100 HP, etc. Having the license would also be required to get insurance and having insurance should be required to register the boat. I certainly don't have all the answers, but it seems to me that the basic idea of a boat license is an idea whose time has come.
Here in Kalifornia, where no training or license is required, you can go to any lake or river used by boaters on a busy weekend and watch so many acts of random stupidity and carelessness that it's scary. Probably the worst offenders are those whose first experience in a boat involved 400+ HP and wanting to see 'how fast will it go'. I've seen enough people hauled out of the water after an accident to know that something needs to be done. Heck, you have to take a class and pass a test for a lot of things, driving a car or motorcycle, flying a plane, buying a gun, being a contractor, etc. I don't see why boating should be any different. The other good thing about licensing is that you can TAKE IT AWAY from those who refuse to follow the rules. 10% of the people cause 90% of the problems, so let's get that 10% off the water. I'll bet if they had to leave their monster speed boat in the driveway for a summer or two they'd learn to place nice. I also agree with the poster who thought maybe we could handle this the same way we handle ham licenses, with a basic license that lets you drive a boat with an engine of 20 HP or less, the next grade would let you drive a boat with up to 100 HP, etc. Having the license would also be required to get insurance and having insurance should be required to register the boat. I certainly don't have all the answers, but it seems to me that the basic idea of a boat license is an idea whose time has come.
disagree with the license
I agree that something needs to be done but, what? Ive been in the p&c insurance biz for 20yrs and guess what, more often than not the ones that cause the most and most serious accidents dont have a DL or insurance. just like morality, you cant legislate stupidity! IMHO!
I agree that something needs to be done but, what? Ive been in the p&c insurance biz for 20yrs and guess what, more often than not the ones that cause the most and most serious accidents dont have a DL or insurance. just like morality, you cant legislate stupidity! IMHO!
Reply to Steve Zweigart
I agree with everything that Steve Zweigart says. And I like the way he puts it. I believe he has his fingers directly on the issues. But my question for him is--Are you in favor of or against mandatory training and licensing for boaters? And if so, how much? Food for thought yes, but what is your stand on this issue, Steve?
I agree with everything that Steve Zweigart says. And I like the way he puts it. I believe he has his fingers directly on the issues. But my question for him is--Are you in favor of or against mandatory training and licensing for boaters? And if so, how much? Food for thought yes, but what is your stand on this issue, Steve?
Tuffy
I agree with Dan, most people that have a DL & Insurance are typically more responsible than those without. I believe most states have somesort of law's on the books now regarding speed violations, drinking and operating a boat etc. possibly just enforcing these would make an impact. I know here in Muskegon it is not uncommon to see the USCG or sheriff doing boat stops/inspections. I'm not sure why some people get boarded, I've never gotten more than a nod from either agency. Just operate defensively guy's, save thy self. Like driving a car, you'll go crazy watching and correcting. White side up------Dana
I agree with Dan, most people that have a DL & Insurance are typically more responsible than those without. I believe most states have somesort of law's on the books now regarding speed violations, drinking and operating a boat etc. possibly just enforcing these would make an impact. I know here in Muskegon it is not uncommon to see the USCG or sheriff doing boat stops/inspections. I'm not sure why some people get boarded, I've never gotten more than a nod from either agency. Just operate defensively guy's, save thy self. Like driving a car, you'll go crazy watching and correcting. White side up------Dana
Canadians have had them for years.
In Canada, the Competency of Operators of Pleasure Craft Regulations require operators of pleasure craft fitted with a motor and used for recreational purposes to have proof of competency on board at all times. This program started in 1999, and is being phased in over 10 years here in Canada. The date at which proof of competency is required on board is as follows - all operators born after April 1, 1983 - Sept. 15/99 all operators of craft under 4m (including PWC)- Sept. 15/02 all operators - Sept 15/09 We all screamed like hell about infringements on our rights etc. when it was introduced, but you know what - the system is working. After writing the Canadian Coast Guard test, and gaining a passing mark of at least 75%, you are issued with an operator card that is good for life. We also have age-horsepower restrictions nationally. Up here, no one under 16 years of age is allowed to operate a PWC. Cheers,
In Canada, the Competency of Operators of Pleasure Craft Regulations require operators of pleasure craft fitted with a motor and used for recreational purposes to have proof of competency on board at all times. This program started in 1999, and is being phased in over 10 years here in Canada. The date at which proof of competency is required on board is as follows - all operators born after April 1, 1983 - Sept. 15/99 all operators of craft under 4m (including PWC)- Sept. 15/02 all operators - Sept 15/09 We all screamed like hell about infringements on our rights etc. when it was introduced, but you know what - the system is working. After writing the Canadian Coast Guard test, and gaining a passing mark of at least 75%, you are issued with an operator card that is good for life. We also have age-horsepower restrictions nationally. Up here, no one under 16 years of age is allowed to operate a PWC. Cheers,
Jim, where is Bronte Harbour?
We vacation in BC. Some of these post remind me of how stupid I was as a youngster and young adult on the water. Even as a rookie cop I built a 400hp v drive Chevy ski boat when I was 22 and tried to kill myself. Wow.
We vacation in BC. Some of these post remind me of how stupid I was as a youngster and young adult on the water. Even as a rookie cop I built a 400hp v drive Chevy ski boat when I was 22 and tried to kill myself. Wow.
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