B & R Backstay

Bill19233

Bill19233

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Jan 22, 2008
766
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
Recently, I have had several people on the dock or at race meetings, tell me I should add a backstay or runners to my boat, a 2000 Hunter 340 with a B & R rig with no backstay. I know it's a bad idea, the hull and rig are not designed for one and who knows what it could mess up. Runners maybe, if I could get crew that could manage them, my crew only seems to be able to manage to get another beer during races.
But, it got me wondering, with all the different size Hunters out there with "backstayless" B & R rigs, has anyone ever tried to add a backstay or running backstays to their boat? And how did it turn out?
No way I would ever do it, but..., just wondering.
 
B

Benny17441

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May 24, 2004
7,178
CC 30 South Florida
These Hunters usually came equipped with a large roach main sail to power the boat. Before making any changes make sure the main sail will not interfere with a back stay. The B&R rig design has been a proven success and I cannot think why some people would try to second guess the design.
 
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Bill19233

Bill19233

.
Jan 22, 2008
766
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
The reason it has been suggested to me, is to reduce headstay sag and improve pointing in higher winds. Yes, the B & R rig has many good attributes and I am not going to change mine nor get a different boat. But, it's weakness is the small footprint of the of the stay and shroud attachments to the hull, which does cause more headstay sag than other rigs when going upwind in higher winds. My rig has been professionally tuned several times and is set to Selden and Hunter specs, so I can't improve that. In my area, there are more Hunters with this rig with roller furling mains with no roach, than standard mains. There is no way a backstay would clear my main or boom.
And it has not been suggested by professional structural engineers or boat designers, but by your average, think they know it all, dock jockeys who never untie their boat.
Just asking if anyone has seen it tried.
 
S

SFS

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Aug 18, 2015
2,088
Currently Boatless Okinawa
I don't know if this will help or confuse the issue, but the rigger that inspected my then-new-to-me boat last year (1983 Hunter 31) confirmed I have a B&R rig, and I have a backstay that splits just above the bimini and runs to the aft corners of the boat.
 
Bill19233

Bill19233

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Jan 22, 2008
766
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
The way I understand it, Hunter had B&R rigs with backstays in the 80's and early 90's. New boat models they put out in the mid 90's started coming with the B&R rig with the really swept back spreaders, diamond stays, outboard chain plates, small jibs, and no backstay.
The 1995 or so and newer are what I was wondering about.
My '87 26.5 had a split backstay with adjuster and you could really pull the sag out of the headstay.
 
M

markwbird

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Nov 26, 2012
1,654
C&C 40-2 Berkeley
My H-34 has the B&R rig with the split backstay. I have pondered the things that you are pondering. You have to consider that adding a backstay and then tightening it will slacken, to some degree, the sidestays and could potentially cause some lean in the mast. You would have to experiment with it. My boat already has the back stay so there is no issue with creating a strong attachment point, etc. You have that added complication. I assume you race PHRF. My feeling is that unless you are racing one design, the benefits of investing lots of cash in your boat to make it faster are limited.
 
Bill19233

Bill19233

.
Jan 22, 2008
766
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
I'm not even thinking about doing it, just wondering if anyone has seen it tried, since several unenlightened people have suggested it. And you're right Jackdaw, The prebend messes with the whole idea. Like I said in the original post, it could mess up a lot in the rig and hull.
 
pateco

pateco

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Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
SFS said:
I don't know if this will help or confuse the issue, but the rigger that inspected my then-new-to-me boat last year (1983 Hunter 31) confirmed I have a B&R rig, and I have a backstay that splits just above the bimini and runs to the aft corners of the boat.
Click to expand
My 1983 H31 also has B&R with split backstay.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
pateco said:
My 1983 H31 also has B&R with split backstay.
Click to expand
Yes, but your rig is the rigging equivalent of a platypus. It's a masthead B&R with the backstay. Weirdo! I have no idea why they did that .
 
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Rick D

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,187
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Jackdaw said:
Yes, but your rig is the rigging equivalent of a platypus. It's a masthead B&R with the backstay. Weirdo! I have no idea why they did that .
Click to expand
I understood it was supposed to be lighter and more rigid in column.
 
pateco

pateco

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Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
Jackdaw said:
Yes, but your rig is the rigging equivalent of a platypus. It's a masthead B&R with the backstay. Weirdo! I have no idea why they did that .
Click to expand
Neither do I but she has a nice tall stick for a 31', and sure is fun to sail.
 
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kloudie1

kloudie1

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Nov 6, 2006
10,104
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Yeah, the Cortland Steck designs of that era, (31, 34, 40, and a couple of others) had backstays because Hunter did not fully "commit" to the true B&R backstay-less rig. Later models went to the true B&R.. Note how the spreaders on the backstay-less rigs are much longer and more swept back to get the same support as a backstay would give.. The backstay-less rig has proven itself to work just as well as a rig with a backstay.. most catamarans and many modern racing rigs are backstay-less..
 
Red_Dog

Red_Dog

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Nov 4, 2018
155
Hunter 28.5 Catawba Island, OH
I found this thread while searching the question of a backstay on a B&R rig. Rather than start a new thread on the subject, I'll post my 2 cents here.

I'm going to reverse the OP's question: Has anyone removed their backstay?

I have a '86 28.5 that has a split backstay. There are a couple of Hunters at the yard that are sans backstay. the one next to me is newer and roughly the same length. I don't remember the model, could be a 29 or 30. As well, there is a Hunter 37 without a backstay.

I'm not rushing for my bosun's chair. But it the question of why do I have a backstay and you don't is a headscracher for me.
 
JRT

JRT

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Feb 14, 2017
2,060
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
The short answer is that your rig was designed to have it that way from the start. Just removing it will not work out, you would need an entire new rig design with proper load paths analyzed and I doubt any one would touch that project.
 
Red_Dog

Red_Dog

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Nov 4, 2018
155
Hunter 28.5 Catawba Island, OH
John Tubb said:
The short answer is that your rig was designed to have it that way from the start. Just removing it will not work out, you would need an entire new rig design with proper load paths analyzed and I doubt any one would touch that project.
Click to expand
Okay . . . I won't go there then.
Thanks
 
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