B&G AP1000 Autopilot troubleshooting

Jan 9, 2020
55
J J/42 1 New Castle NH
Posting here because this forum always seems the most resourceful, but if there is a better place, pls advice and I can move. I have an B&G H1000 a/p that I am having trouble calibrating in the "at dock" calibration process. I've already swapped out to a known working ACP "brain". When I try and complete the "hard over" at-dock calibration I get the error msg "Attention - Pilot Un-calibrated. refer to instruction manual for details". Of course the manual doesn't detail this message. Prior to the "hard over" step, I completed the "port" and "stb" rudder stop settings., but there is no way to confirm it's actually "set" (?) The only other piece of info i have is that I can confirm I have voltage in to the ACP computer, but the "drive" terminals do not have voltage, and I don't know if that is a factor of the "brain" not getting a proper signal from a sensor (rudder?) or the instrument controller. So just wondering if anyone has any troubleshooting advice on what to test and confirm next.
Many thanks
WSC
 

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Feb 21, 2013
4,638
Hunter 46 Point Richmond, CA
Sorry, cannot help you on an in-dock B&G calibration because the two Raymarine auto pilots I installed required a sea trial calibration. If you post a copy of your manual I would be happy to look it over. Might require consultation with B&G or an electronics technician familiar with B&G instruments.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
The only other piece of info i have is that I can confirm I have voltage in to the ACP computer, but the "drive" terminals do not have voltage, and I don't know if that is a factor of the "brain" not getting a proper signal from a sensor (rudder?) or the instrument controller.
When you say the driver terminals do not have voltage do you mean the ACP wasn't outputting voltage for the drive unit, or you didn't supply voltage to the drive unit?
 
Jan 9, 2020
55
J J/42 1 New Castle NH
I get voltage into the act but the drive terminals (to the right of the power in terminals) do not have power. I don’t know if it’s supposed to always have power or only when it gets instructions to do something.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
There may be a separate fuse for the drive power supply. The power for the brains may come from another source.

The blue and brown duplex cable should be the wires that control the drive unit, is there power at those connections.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
I get voltage into the act but the drive terminals (to the right of the power in terminals) do not have power. I don’t know if it’s supposed to always have power or only when it gets instructions to do something.
The drive output terminals on the ACT will only be powered when it's trying to drive, i.e, change the rudder position.

For reference, here's how these things work. There are two pair of wires going to the drive unit, a pair to energize the clutch, and a pair to energize the drive motor. When you select "AUTO" the clutch should engage, and you should be pretty much unable to turn the wheel manually. To drive the rudder, the pilot energizes the drive output with one polarity or the other for turns to port or starboard.

I'm assuming a bunch of stuff here.
  • do you have an electric linear drive?
  • did this ever work?
  • does it basically work, other than the calibration fault?
 
Jan 9, 2020
55
J J/42 1 New Castle NH
I've never got it to work b/c I can't get past the calibration error. When I try to turn it on on the display, that's when I get the error, and when I try and calibrate it in "dockside" mode, I also get the error on the "hard over" calibration step. yes, I believe this B&G linear drive is electric...see pic. So the info about power in Auto mode is helpful, and may explain why the drive terminals read zero voltage in calibration mode. So still suspecting some sort of rudder sensing issue. Thanks for all the feedback thus far.. helping my troubleshooting logic immensely. WSC
 

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jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Good info. That looks to me like the Simrad HLD-2000 linear drive, with a linear rudder position sensor strapped to it. That's an excellent drive unit. I had the sister unit, an HLD-350. It's "electric over hydraulic," meaning there's an electric motor driving a hydraulic pump, forward or reverse; and the "clutch" is a normally-open, electrically actuated hydraulic valve, that bypasses the pump, so when the pilot's not engaged you can steer the boat manually. It functions exactly as does an all-electric linear drive.

I confess I don't know what the expected output of the hard-over step might be. You can at least verify that the ram is working, by hot-wiring the clutch (apply 12V), and the apply 12V to the drive wires, first with one polarity and then the other. If that works, I'd look into the rudder position sensor next.

Have you done a good visual inspection, to see that all wires are securely connected, etc.?
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
You may have a simple compatibility issue. The Drive you have is the original B&G drive, which will work with contemporary B&G AP computer and controller. It is somewhere around 25 years old, at least in design. I have one that is controlled by a NAC 2 and Zues2 MFD.

The H1000 is by now ancient. There have been 2 more iterations, the H3000 and the H5000. The B&G website barely mentions the H1000. Some of the early B&G products used an early and later abandoned NMEA 0183 standard. One of those is the Network series of instruments and APs, which was developed around the same time as the H1000.

A call to B&G Tech support can confirm whether the H1000 is compatible with the rest of your electronics. Call, don't email. Their email tech support is not all that good or responsive, calling has generally been more productive. Be prepared for bad news, i.e., the components are no longer compatible and tech support is no longer available. For your sake, I hope I am incorrect and they can provide assistance and an economical solution.
 
May 7, 2018
3
Hunter 31 Mystic
The rudder angle potentiometer may not be working. Disconnect the three leads for the pot from the controller. The three leads are left, right and center. Using an ohmmeter, check the resistance between each of the three leads. The two outer leads should be around 1000 ohms, with the center to outer lead from around 200 to 800 ohms. The center lead will change with the rudder angle. If there is no resistance, there is an open somewhere in the circuit.
 
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Jan 9, 2020
55
J J/42 1 New Castle NH
Thanks for the advise so far.. I was finally able to do a few more troubleshooting steps...still trying to determine what they mean. I learned that to test voltage on the drive terminals in the ACP, you need to ground on the neg side of Power In and test the Pos (+) side of Drive Out. When I did this I got 8.71V (??). Power In voltage reads 12.8v. So not exactly sure what this means yet.

I also attempted to engage the clutch on the ram drive by energizing it (the blue/brown wires in ACP) by using my voltmeter to jump power from the Power IN side.. when I did this I got 12.8v, but not sure I heard any sound that would indicate "clutch working". Need to confirm I did this right by using a volt meter. Finally, on my control panel, while I have a rudder sensor "range" displayed at the bottom of the screen, there is nothing that indicates any reference to the actual rudder position. Thinking if I'm getting a rudder sensor reading, the display should show some sort of mark on the rudder ref display.

So as far as I can tell, I'm still suspicious of the rudder sensor and am trying to fine a working one to swap out and see if I at least get a reference on the display. Still need to do the resistance test mentioned above... will advise on progress.
 
Jan 9, 2020
55
J J/42 1 New Castle NH
I think I made a bit of progress this weekend. I swapped out my rudder sensor from a linear drive to the old style (but kept it disconnected from rudder). That got me past the calibration errors and I was able to see the rudder sensor indicator on the display. So clearly I had a faulty rudder sensor. I was able to get past the errors on Dockside Calibration and actually turn the unit to ON mode. However, I got some new errors, which I suspect are due to the fact that the sensor was not connected to the rudder (just the ACP)? see enclosed pic. Also, I think I need to figure out how to bleed or purge my ram, as when I hit +10 on the pilot, the ram was seemingly burping air and/or leaking a bit from what I think are the seals where the rod enters the ram unit. I suspect that since the sensor was not connected to the rudder, the unit was not getting the right data, etc; Finally, enclosed is a link to vid of us trying to actuate the ram by hitting +10 as described. I believe the noise I hear is the ram pump working? IMG_1489.MOV
 

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Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The noise sounds like a dry pump or one trying to build pressure, which would suggest a leak somewhere in the system.

The original rudder sensor may not be bad, there is little on them to break. Because the ram on drive is not moving, the rudder is not moving and the rudder sensor thinks all is fine. So there is a conflict between the sensor and the controllers direction, the controller is saying turn right and the sensor is saying the rudder is centered.
 
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Jan 9, 2020
55
J J/42 1 New Castle NH
dave - hadn't thought of that.. so i could test this by removing my linear sensor and manually moving it to see if I get the same results as I did with the other rudder sensor. Thanks for the info. I'll do that next...
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
dave - hadn't thought of that.. so i could test this by removing my linear sensor and manually moving it to see if I get the same results as I did with the other rudder sensor. Thanks for the info. I'll do that next...
Does the controller display have a rudder position indicator? The later models do. If you move the sensor the display should indicate the movement if it is working.
 
Jan 9, 2020
55
J J/42 1 New Castle NH
So definitely proved my linear rudder sensor didn't work (removed it from ram, no sensor indicator on display, failed resistance test). I installed a B&G "dial" rudder sensor and got it to work, but on the hard over calibration I got some weird error message about "measured boat speed exceeds three knots" ?? But I was able to get the AP into "ON" mode (past the calibration error) and tried to test ram by hitting "Minus 10". Ram actuated but didn't really move.. had some air coming out of seals, etc; I'll enclose link to video. So I figured I'd pull the ram unit and see if I can rebuild it, but the damn tie rod end seems to be frozen in place. Take at look at the enclosed pic.. I removed a nut that was underneath this tie rod, thinking the whole thing would slip up and off, but it's not budging.. even after pb blaster and whacking it with a hammer.. can't tell if it's threaded into the alum plate coming off rudder or not. So just curious if anyone has pulled these ram units before and had similar challenge. goal is to remove it and rebuild it if possible, then I should be in business.

link to vid of ram not working.... ram trying to work on minus 10 attempt.MOV
link to pic of tie rod "frozen" IMG_1511.jpg
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
It looks like you have a leaking seal on the ram. I saw stuff dripping out. So removing the ram and looking to rebuild/replace is probably the way to go.

Is the ram attached to an Edson Tiller Arm? It may be easier to remove the arm and the ram as one unit and put it on a work bench.
 
Jan 9, 2020
55
J J/42 1 New Castle NH
its attached to a massive plate that attaches to the rudder post. that can't be removed, and my challenge now is getting the tie rod end of the ram off the rudder plate. Seems frozen in place.. will let pb blaster do it's magic for a couple of days.. I don't think the tie rod end can come off "thru the bolt".. I think it's all fastened to the mounting plate.
 
Jan 9, 2020
55
J J/42 1 New Castle NH
just an update on this problem I've been working to resolve. I found a service in RI who rebuilt my B&G T1 ram unit (more cost effective than going brand new) and decided to retest the linear rudder sensor, which I thought I proved was faulty, before re-installing everything. Below is the result from my resistance reading.. there are three wires, Red, Black and White. When I connect the white and black, and move the sensor, the ohm's range from 116 to 114.5, so I'm assuming this unit is in fact working. Assume the black wire is "center"? will let this helpful group know final results of install. Sadly, the B&G head display LCD is close to being 100% gone, so hopefully I can see enough to complete testing. (garmin retro in my future I think). Thanks!
1595945449165.png
 
Jan 9, 2020
55
J J/42 1 New Castle NH
OK, finally got the rebuilt T1 Ram unit installed and was able to complete some more testing. I wired up the linear rudder sensor thinking it was good based on the continuity tests, but it failed to register the rudder sensor indicator on the display unit. So I reconnected another "dial" style sensor I had that does work properly and hooked everything up. My issue now is when I try to complete the dockside calibration (boat not moving), during the hardover step, I get an error message that says "boat speed exceeds three knots", so for some reason the H1000/ACP thinks the boat is moving when it's just sitting on mooring. (other H1000 displays who speed at 0 knots). Whats also interesting is that I can get the A/P to turn on, but when I try and use the +10 or -10 functions I end up getting a "drive failure error", so I'm assuming this is because the dockside calibration is not set properly. So just sharing for other's reference, and the hope that someone might suggest more troubleshooting options.