Autopilot Recommendation

[jev7337]

I'm up for a new autopilot and thought id see what others are using with similar boats.
My boat is a Hunter 430 that had a CPT wheel pilot. It worked ok - until last weekend. I took it apart and it looks like I need a new Autopilot.
All nav electronics are Raymarine, thinking of sticking to the same brand but would consider other brands as well.

Question: if you have the same boat, what type of drive do you use?
Any suggestions what drives and autopilot types to use or not to use?

I had a look at a few options.
- Raymarine Evolution Wheel Pilot seems the cheapest option but it's only rated to a max displacement of 7,500kg. The Hunter 430 is about 10,000kg. So I guess that's out of the question. Or is anyone using these on their 40plus footer?
-The linear drive option looks good but I don't think the drive will fit without having to do some surgery.
- Some hydraulic options from B&G could potentially fit. A bit pricey though.
- Rotary Drive seems the only option I can think of.
- Any other suggestions?

 

[dlochner]

A 43' boat is too big for a wheel pilot for anything other motoring in calm water. That puts you in the below decks autopilot world and they ain't cheap. There's lots to consider. Hydraulic, ram, integration with other instruments, ease of installation and so on.

There are 3 key components, the drive unit, the computer, and the controller. There is some flexibility in the drive unit, however, the computer and controller will probably have to be from the same company to be compatible. The 2 big guys are RayMarine and B&G/Simrad/Navico another alternative is Pelagic.

I have a B&G AP that is controlled by a Zeus2 and I am happy with it on my 36 ft boat. It integrates well with the MFD and instruments, is responsive and steers as well as I do in most conditions.

The other alternative is a wind vane system, however, those are more commonly found on boats sailing offshore for days on end.

 

[Mark Maulden]

Have you talked to CPT about a repair or purchase of only the failed part? I was thinking CPT when I was shopping but I wanted connectivity to electronics. So I bought the wheelpilot. Technically my boat is to big but it seems to work fine although I don’t use it for hard sailing. Now that I have it, I don’t really use it with the plotter. I mainly use it as a heading keeping pilot. I like to manually keep course knowing winds/currents. Sort of a game I play...

 

[jev7337]

a

A 43' boat is too big for a wheel pilot for anything other motoring in calm water. That puts you in the below decks autopilot world and they ain't cheap. There's lots to consider. Hydraulic, ram, integration with other instruments, ease of installation and so on.

There are 3 key components, the drive unit, the computer, and the controller. There is some flexibility in the drive unit, however, the computer and controller will probably have to be from the same company to be compatible. The 2 big guys are RayMarine and B&G/Simrad/Navico another alternative is Pelagic.

I have a B&G AP that is controlled by a Zeus2 and I am happy with it on my 36 ft boat. It integrates well with the MFD and instruments, is responsive and steers as well as I do in most conditions.

The other alternative is a wind vane system, however, those are more commonly found on boats sailing offshore for days on end.

Are you just using Zeus to control the AP without a seperate AP control?

 

[jssailem]

I’m thinking the raymarine EV 200 should be on your consideration list.

 

[jev7337]

Have you talked to CPT about a repair or purchase of only the failed part? I was thinking CPT when I was shopping but I wanted connectivity to electronics. So I bought the wheelpilot. Technically my boat is to big but it seems to work fine although I don’t use it for hard sailing. Now that I have it, I don’t really use it with the plotter. I mainly use it as a heading keeping pilot. I like to manually keep course knowing winds/currents. Sort of a game I play...

I had a a their website. They offer a replacement motor and control box for just under $1,500. In regards to installation, this would be by far the simplest option - and is being considered.
Wouldn't the new Raymarine units, or B&G etc. be more precise in steering?

 

[jssailem]

The new EV series units are vastly improved.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Wouldn't the new Raymarine units, or B&G etc. be more precise in steering?

No, not really. "Precise?" C'mon, doesn't happen in the real world on a sailboat. I visited CPT when I lived in California. You would do well to call them on the telephone and discuss potential repairs with them rather than relying on your interpretation of their website (a brand new one less than 10 years ago was $1700, so $1500 for what you've described sounds "off"). They are fine gentlemen.
Good luck.

PS I agree with Mark in this regard:

I mainly use it as a heading keeping pilot. I like to manually keep course knowing winds/currents.

 

[jev7337]

No, not really. "Precise?" C'mon, doesn't happen in the real world on a sailboat. I visited CPT when I lived in California. You would do well to call them on the telephone and discuss potential repairs with them rather than relying on your interpretation of their website (a brand new one less than 10 years ago was $1700, so $1500 for what you've described sounds "off"). They are fine gentlemen.
Good luck.

PS I agree with Mark in this regard:

I will contact them to see what the options are. At the moment replacing my old CPT with a new one seems like the easiest option, easy swap around. The price I quoted above is from their website, $1,479 for the motor and control unit. Seems very reasonable to me, I'd be spending more just for a new Raymarine drive unit.
I'm just interested in what others use with similar boats and if it is worth spending a grand or two more for something that can be integrated with the MFD.

 

[dlochner]

a

Are you just using Zeus to control the AP without a seperate AP control?

Yes. So long as the Zeus is connected, I believe there is an option for the Trident 2 instruments to control the AP. Although I don't think I have tried that.

 

[smokey73]

I have a Raymarine EV200 with Raymarine MFD, Rotary Drive, and rudder sensor. Works great! Replaced a wheel pilot that was somewhat undersized for the 20,000 pound boat. I was "lucky" and got hit by lightning that fried my electronics but did no other damage so insurance paid for the bulk of the cost of replacement.

The biggest consideration was the drive. My boat, a 1994 Hunter 40.5 was built from the "get-go" to accept a rotary drive with a platform for installation already built in inside the binnacle directly below the wheel shaft. The hardest part of the installation was sourcing the right gears for the wheel shaft and the drive shaft to get the right drive ratio. I am very happy with the installation and the course keeping ability. For a picture of the installation (not mine but used as a resource) look on the Hunter 40.5 Modifications page of SBO. It was posted by Rich Stidger.

There is an existing old thread that discusses the relative advantages and disadvantages of various drives. The Rotary Drive does rely on the wheel and the associated steering cabling so if there is a problem in that part of the system you won't have autopilot steering or wheel steering for that matter. I don't think I'd use that as my primary drive if I were contemplating trans-Atlantic or Pacific passages. But then again, if I was contemplating those I'd want a self steering vane that doesn't use any electricity for routine steering with the autopilot for use when the engine or generator were running.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I'm just interested in what others use with similar boats and if it is worth spending a grand or two more for something that can be integrated with the MFD.

Understand.
For your size boat, the CPT is the strongest above deck unit you're likely to find. Wouldn't anything else require a below deck unit?

 

[Deleted member 117556]

For your sized boat I would either repair the CPT or go with a below deck unit. Wheel pilots are just not that good. I have an EV 100 on my relatively small boat and it is good for motoring but not robust enough if there is any helm while sailing. It is much improved but I would say they have improved it all the way up to terrible...

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

I am in the process of replacing the SPX30 autopilot on my Hunter 50 with an EV-400. If you are happy with the performance of the CPT unit, the price of the replacement is less than half compared to what a new EV-200 system will cost.

 

[jev7337]

I have a Raymarine EV200 with Raymarine MFD, Rotary Drive, and rudder sensor. Works great! Replaced a wheel pilot that was somewhat undersized for the 20,000 pound boat. I was "lucky" and got hit by lightning that fried my electronics but did no other damage so insurance paid for the bulk of the cost of replacement.

The biggest consideration was the drive. My boat, a 1994 Hunter 40.5 was built from the "get-go" to accept a rotary drive with a platform for installation already built in inside the binnacle directly below the wheel shaft. The hardest part of the installation was sourcing the right gears for the wheel shaft and the drive shaft to get the right drive ratio. I am very happy with the installation and the course keeping ability. For a picture of the installation (not mine but used as a resource) look on the Hunter 40.5 Modifications page of SBO. It was posted by Rich Stidger.

There is an existing old thread that discusses the relative advantages and disadvantages of various drives. The Rotary Drive does rely on the wheel and the associated steering cabling so if there is a problem in that part of the system you won't have autopilot steering or wheel steering for that matter. I don't think I'd use that as my primary drive if I were contemplating trans-Atlantic or Pacific passages. But then again, if I was contemplating those I'd want a self steering vane that doesn't use any electricity for routine steering with the autopilot for use when the engine or generator were running.

Just noticed that my steering has the same provisioning for a autopilot. I did't notice that before as there is no thread for a fastening nut at that end. I looked at the drawings on their site and it states that this is for an autopilot. Looks like the installation could be a bit simpler than expected.
Do you know where you sourced the gears from?

 

[jev7337]

Thank's all for your replies. I think the decision comes down to two; replace my CPT or install a new Raymarine EV200 with rotary drive.

 

[JohnShannon]

I don't understand the weight limit thing on the autopilot I expect it is somewhat bogus. The CPT could likely steer the Nimitz if it had a wheel. My 37 foot boat had a wheel and occasionally needed pretty high effort to steer, but do 80 footers need two or three men on the wheel? I haven't noticed that. I suspect there is mechanical gain somewhere below decks.

 

[smokey73]

Just noticed that my steering has the same provisioning for a autopilot. I did't notice that before as there is no thread for a fastening nut at that end. I looked at the drawings on their site and it states that this is for an autopilot. Looks like the installation could be a bit simpler than expected.
Do you know where you sourced the gears from?

I'll see if I can find the invoice or other info. You may be able to get the gears from Raymarine. You'll need two gears, one for the wheel shaft and one for the shaft on the rotary drive. You'll also need chain. I'd recommend stainless steel for both the gears and the chain since they are pretty close to the magnetic compass if your binnacle is like mine was. I'll pm you and if you feel like it you can call me. pm me back with your phone number so when you call I won't ignore it. (too many robo calls)

 

[dlochner]

I don't understand the weight limit thing on the autopilot I expect it is somewhat bogus. The CPT could likely steer the Nimitz if it had a wheel. My 37 foot boat had a wheel and occasionally needed pretty high effort to steer, but do 80 footers need two or three men on the wheel? I haven't noticed that. I suspect there is mechanical gain somewhere below decks.

The issue is the size of the drive ring on the wheel. There is a lot of leverage at the end of a 40" diameter wheel, not as much for the 20" or so AP drive ring. Larger heavier boats tend to have larger diameter wheels so steering effort remains constant as boat size increases.

 

[smokey73]

The issue is the size of the drive ring on the wheel. There is a lot of leverage at the end of a 40" diameter wheel, not as much for the 20" or so AP drive ring. Larger heavier boats tend to have larger diameter wheels so steering effort remains constant as boat size increases.

That torque placed on the drive ring in heavier seas, especially following or quartering seas can be significant. I don't know about the CPT drive but the Raymarine drive uses a belt for drive and non-metallic (plastic or some other material) gears and wheels. After a particularly "spirited" overnight transit off of New Jersey several wheel shafts were toast and rattling around inside the wheel housing. I was able to jury rig a fix for the rest of the trip and a few seasons but am much more comfortable with the below decks (actually inside the binnacle) drive I now have.