Atomic Four woes

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Devian

.
Jan 6, 2008
32
-Columbia 28 mk something or other Pier 39, San Francisco
Greetings all. So here's the deal. I have a 1969 Columbia 28' that needs some work. Mostly cosmetic but the Atomic Four engine hasn't been started in probably about six years or so. Not to mention that its gonna need new controls and ignition. My question, or at least the first question is about the engine. Any advice on how to get the engine up and running again? What tools I need? Costs? Any advice is greatly appreciated...... Devian
 

Devian

.
Jan 6, 2008
32
-Columbia 28 mk something or other Pier 39, San Francisco
Greetings all. So here's the deal. I have a 1969 Columbia 28' that needs some work. Mostly cosmetic but the Atomic Four engine hasn't been started in probably about six years or so. Not to mention that its gonna need new controls and ignition. My question, or at least the first question is about the engine. Any advice on how to get the engine up and running again? What tools I need? Costs? Any advice is greatly appreciated...... Devian
 
P

Pete

what have you tried ?

first suggestions is to remove spark plugs and see if it will even turn over after six years (either by hand or with a wrench pour small amount of oil into cylinders) if it turns over you will need a 1)new battery (or a least another one) 2)fresh gas, my suggestion is to by pass gas tank and use a portable tank, work on gas tank after it is running later. 3)if engine turns over I would change the oil be for trying to start. Try this and attempt to start and see where you are at. Will it start ? does it have spark? etc etc You may need to rebuild carb but I would try to get it running and see first. You could replace the ignition but I would try it first assuming it was running when it was stored Good Luck and as far as tools take a full set of wrenches and sockets with you.
 
P

Pete

what have you tried ?

first suggestions is to remove spark plugs and see if it will even turn over after six years (either by hand or with a wrench pour small amount of oil into cylinders) if it turns over you will need a 1)new battery (or a least another one) 2)fresh gas, my suggestion is to by pass gas tank and use a portable tank, work on gas tank after it is running later. 3)if engine turns over I would change the oil be for trying to start. Try this and attempt to start and see where you are at. Will it start ? does it have spark? etc etc You may need to rebuild carb but I would try to get it running and see first. You could replace the ignition but I would try it first assuming it was running when it was stored Good Luck and as far as tools take a full set of wrenches and sockets with you.
 

gpd955

.
Feb 22, 2006
1,164
Catalina 310 Cape May, NJ
Try this site

Get onto the forums and search or post questions. Don Moyer is especially helpful as is everyone on that site. Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
 

gpd955

.
Feb 22, 2006
1,164
Catalina 310 Cape May, NJ
Try this site

Get onto the forums and search or post questions. Don Moyer is especially helpful as is everyone on that site. Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
By all means turn it over by hand ......

and NOT by the starter. Remove the spark plugs and the valve cover plate. Put a wrench on the crankshaft bolt and slowly turn the engine. Do NOT "force" the engine to turn or you will break the piston rings if they are rusted to the cylinder walls, etc. If the pistons are free and with the sparkplugs out, the engine if free will turn over easily by hand. If you meet with 'any' resistance spritz some Marvel Mystery Oil down the sparkplug holes and let soak a day or two, then gently rock the crankshaft back and forth until it eventually breaks free. Also note the action of the valve stems. If the engine wasnt properly lubricated when stored, the exhaust valves may have frozen and will stick in their valve guides in an open position - take a screw driver and bend it into a 90 degree angle, reach in through the sparkplug hole and push the exhaust valves down, lubricate the valve stems with MMO (through the open cover plate) and keep hand turning and lubricating the valve stems until they are free. Even if the engine is 'frozen', dont despair. Keep spritzing MMO down the sparkplug holes, let soak and then *gently* rock back and forth with a wrench on the crankcase nut until the engine turns over easy by hand. Dont force it. If it was stuck, empty the oil and replace with 4 qts. of MMO + 1 qt of 30Wt. and let soak a few days. Then spin the engine with the starter, then start the engine ...... but only let it idle with NO LOAD (out of gear) until warm, then let soak for a few days, restart until warm then slwoly bring the engine in neutral up to speed slowly .... this will re-polish the cylinder walls, etc. .... , then drain the MMO from the crankcase and replace with 30 wt. Be gentle and dont FORCE the engine to turn over. If the piston rings are frozen in their grooves, forcing WILL break the rings. MMO will work to free up a frozen engine but you need the soak time and patience. ;-) hope this helps.
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
By all means turn it over by hand ......

and NOT by the starter. Remove the spark plugs and the valve cover plate. Put a wrench on the crankshaft bolt and slowly turn the engine. Do NOT "force" the engine to turn or you will break the piston rings if they are rusted to the cylinder walls, etc. If the pistons are free and with the sparkplugs out, the engine if free will turn over easily by hand. If you meet with 'any' resistance spritz some Marvel Mystery Oil down the sparkplug holes and let soak a day or two, then gently rock the crankshaft back and forth until it eventually breaks free. Also note the action of the valve stems. If the engine wasnt properly lubricated when stored, the exhaust valves may have frozen and will stick in their valve guides in an open position - take a screw driver and bend it into a 90 degree angle, reach in through the sparkplug hole and push the exhaust valves down, lubricate the valve stems with MMO (through the open cover plate) and keep hand turning and lubricating the valve stems until they are free. Even if the engine is 'frozen', dont despair. Keep spritzing MMO down the sparkplug holes, let soak and then *gently* rock back and forth with a wrench on the crankcase nut until the engine turns over easy by hand. Dont force it. If it was stuck, empty the oil and replace with 4 qts. of MMO + 1 qt of 30Wt. and let soak a few days. Then spin the engine with the starter, then start the engine ...... but only let it idle with NO LOAD (out of gear) until warm, then let soak for a few days, restart until warm then slwoly bring the engine in neutral up to speed slowly .... this will re-polish the cylinder walls, etc. .... , then drain the MMO from the crankcase and replace with 30 wt. Be gentle and dont FORCE the engine to turn over. If the piston rings are frozen in their grooves, forcing WILL break the rings. MMO will work to free up a frozen engine but you need the soak time and patience. ;-) hope this helps.
 

higgs

.
Aug 24, 2005
3,710
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Oil

BobH sounds like he knows what he is talking about. Depending on the angle of your A4 is in you may only need as little as 3 qts of oil. Overfilling an engine will reduce the lubricating effect of the oil as it will have a tendency to foam up. Also on the A4, you will leak out the front of the crankcase if over filled.
 

higgs

.
Aug 24, 2005
3,710
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Oil

BobH sounds like he knows what he is talking about. Depending on the angle of your A4 is in you may only need as little as 3 qts of oil. Overfilling an engine will reduce the lubricating effect of the oil as it will have a tendency to foam up. Also on the A4, you will leak out the front of the crankcase if over filled.
 

CalebD

.
Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
When you go to drain the oil out of the engine

after you have followed all the previous advice (MMO soakings in cylinders) you might consider emptying the oil from the transmission housing if you can reach it. This would be the lowest part of the engine where the engine oil circulates and therefore where all the crap and gunk would likely collect. If you can't drain the oil from the tranny then you might consider changing the old oil out a few times with some cheaper 10 or 15W - 40 oil WITH 1 Qt. of MMO as RichH suggested, whose comments are spot on and you wont get much more from A4 guru Don Moyer himself until you know more about the status of your engine. I would suggest checking out the Moyer Marine website that Letterman posted AND getting the A4 Maintenance and Overhaul manual they sell. If you can eventually get the crankshaft to turn by hand you will need to: a) ensure you have a fresh and clean fuel supply b) install new spark plugs, distributor cap, points (if needed), rotor cap and battery (moyermarine.com, WM, or an auto parts store near you for everything but the battery) c) it would be a good idea to plan on replacing all the cooling system hoses and check the water lift muffler and exhaust system d) have a can of starting fluid on hand BEFORE you attempt to start the motor. If the starter motor cranks the engine but it wont turn over with the choke pulled out ONLY THEN try a squirt of starting fluid (ether) into the air intake. If the starter motor wont turn the engine over then you have other problems. Checkout http://www.moyermarine.com/ if you do not like the advice you have received on this forum (they have a similar kind of forum at Moyer - there are just more people logged into this site than MMI so you will get quicker responses here). I am not sure which 'Pier 39' you are at but if it is NYC so am I and would be happy to lend a hand sometime. I am not a know-it-all or looking to oversee your work or boss you about. I am interested in this engine type as I have one that is from 1967 (41 years old) and it still works by golly! Good luck with your A4.
 

CalebD

.
Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
When you go to drain the oil out of the engine

after you have followed all the previous advice (MMO soakings in cylinders) you might consider emptying the oil from the transmission housing if you can reach it. This would be the lowest part of the engine where the engine oil circulates and therefore where all the crap and gunk would likely collect. If you can't drain the oil from the tranny then you might consider changing the old oil out a few times with some cheaper 10 or 15W - 40 oil WITH 1 Qt. of MMO as RichH suggested, whose comments are spot on and you wont get much more from A4 guru Don Moyer himself until you know more about the status of your engine. I would suggest checking out the Moyer Marine website that Letterman posted AND getting the A4 Maintenance and Overhaul manual they sell. If you can eventually get the crankshaft to turn by hand you will need to: a) ensure you have a fresh and clean fuel supply b) install new spark plugs, distributor cap, points (if needed), rotor cap and battery (moyermarine.com, WM, or an auto parts store near you for everything but the battery) c) it would be a good idea to plan on replacing all the cooling system hoses and check the water lift muffler and exhaust system d) have a can of starting fluid on hand BEFORE you attempt to start the motor. If the starter motor cranks the engine but it wont turn over with the choke pulled out ONLY THEN try a squirt of starting fluid (ether) into the air intake. If the starter motor wont turn the engine over then you have other problems. Checkout http://www.moyermarine.com/ if you do not like the advice you have received on this forum (they have a similar kind of forum at Moyer - there are just more people logged into this site than MMI so you will get quicker responses here). I am not sure which 'Pier 39' you are at but if it is NYC so am I and would be happy to lend a hand sometime. I am not a know-it-all or looking to oversee your work or boss you about. I am interested in this engine type as I have one that is from 1967 (41 years old) and it still works by golly! Good luck with your A4.
 

Devian

.
Jan 6, 2008
32
-Columbia 28 mk something or other Pier 39, San Francisco
thanks

Thanks guys. Hopefully I'll be able to do this soon. I'll let you know what happens. More questions sure to follow..... Thanks Devian
 

Devian

.
Jan 6, 2008
32
-Columbia 28 mk something or other Pier 39, San Francisco
thanks

Thanks guys. Hopefully I'll be able to do this soon. I'll let you know what happens. More questions sure to follow..... Thanks Devian
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,186
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
One Other Thing, Devian...

...the gas is no good and should be pumped out if you can find a place to dispose of it. However, drop the fuel float and be sure the carb has not rusted and filled with gunk. I had a C 28 with an A4 and had a real problem until I put a big water-separator filter on it and OH'ed the carb. The cap gasket was bad and she got water in the gas and really messed up the carb, especially when she sat for a while before I got her. I drained about a half-quart of water out of that filter before she was clean! RD
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,186
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
One Other Thing, Devian...

...the gas is no good and should be pumped out if you can find a place to dispose of it. However, drop the fuel float and be sure the carb has not rusted and filled with gunk. I had a C 28 with an A4 and had a real problem until I put a big water-separator filter on it and OH'ed the carb. The cap gasket was bad and she got water in the gas and really messed up the carb, especially when she sat for a while before I got her. I drained about a half-quart of water out of that filter before she was clean! RD
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Cold Chills!

That's what is running down my back, still, from reading your post Devian. This is one of those cases where 'if you have to ask', forgetaboutit! Do this: Nothing. At least don't do anything to salvage that engine. Start shopping for a small, modern diesel engine. Look for anything still in production. The advice given here is spot-on, but lordy, if your engine is as neglected at it sounds like it is, you've only just begun your exercise in 'frustration'. Now don't get me wrong. Your engine is fixable. Hell, I've replaced a broken crank on the dock, 100 miles from home on one of those damn things. But time has passed them by, even if your engine is like new. Here are some reasons I say that: 1.No center main bearings for the crankshaft! Yep. Only two main bearings, one at each end of the crankshaft. The crank is made of CAST IRON, not forged steel. Ask any gearhead what that means. Yep, weak. 2.Gasoline for fuel is dangerous. Diesel is safe. 3.Gas engines have HALF the range of diesel engines, gallon for gallon. 4.A4's compression ratio is 6.5:1. Translation; even less efficiency than modern gas engines. 5.Spark plug ignition is undependable with an old inboard engine. Wanna hear my 'three sets of bad points' story? 6.A4's don't use a modern water lift muffler system. Yep, fire hazard. And it doesn't have anything to do with fuel. 7.Over twice the weight of a modern diesel for your application. 8.Alternator can't be spun-up while underway to provide a meaningful charge. Look at the pulley ratio. Translation: plan on buying a good sized battery charger and visiting marinas often. And that doesn't count the numerous times you'll have to limp-in, either broken down or out of fuel. 9.A 30 horsepower rating is a pipe dream. If you even use 20 horses this thing will probably detonate. Why do you think they call them 'Atomic'? A diesel is rated to run full-time at full power. 10.I speak from experience. And I'm a GEARHEAD! 11.Speaking of 'gearhead', the transmission is even older in design than the Model A-Atomic 4. Good luck shifting it. In an emergency, plan on crashing. Oh, forget about changing the transmission oil. It shares the engine oil at the same time. How old is that?!
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Cold Chills!

That's what is running down my back, still, from reading your post Devian. This is one of those cases where 'if you have to ask', forgetaboutit! Do this: Nothing. At least don't do anything to salvage that engine. Start shopping for a small, modern diesel engine. Look for anything still in production. The advice given here is spot-on, but lordy, if your engine is as neglected at it sounds like it is, you've only just begun your exercise in 'frustration'. Now don't get me wrong. Your engine is fixable. Hell, I've replaced a broken crank on the dock, 100 miles from home on one of those damn things. But time has passed them by, even if your engine is like new. Here are some reasons I say that: 1.No center main bearings for the crankshaft! Yep. Only two main bearings, one at each end of the crankshaft. The crank is made of CAST IRON, not forged steel. Ask any gearhead what that means. Yep, weak. 2.Gasoline for fuel is dangerous. Diesel is safe. 3.Gas engines have HALF the range of diesel engines, gallon for gallon. 4.A4's compression ratio is 6.5:1. Translation; even less efficiency than modern gas engines. 5.Spark plug ignition is undependable with an old inboard engine. Wanna hear my 'three sets of bad points' story? 6.A4's don't use a modern water lift muffler system. Yep, fire hazard. And it doesn't have anything to do with fuel. 7.Over twice the weight of a modern diesel for your application. 8.Alternator can't be spun-up while underway to provide a meaningful charge. Look at the pulley ratio. Translation: plan on buying a good sized battery charger and visiting marinas often. And that doesn't count the numerous times you'll have to limp-in, either broken down or out of fuel. 9.A 30 horsepower rating is a pipe dream. If you even use 20 horses this thing will probably detonate. Why do you think they call them 'Atomic'? A diesel is rated to run full-time at full power. 10.I speak from experience. And I'm a GEARHEAD! 11.Speaking of 'gearhead', the transmission is even older in design than the Model A-Atomic 4. Good luck shifting it. In an emergency, plan on crashing. Oh, forget about changing the transmission oil. It shares the engine oil at the same time. How old is that?!
 

Clark

.
Jun 30, 2004
886
Hunter 280 Lake Guntersville, AL
Beta marine makes a direct replacement for the Atomic 4

You can google Beta Marine or go here:
 

Clark

.
Jun 30, 2004
886
Hunter 280 Lake Guntersville, AL
Beta marine makes a direct replacement for the Atomic 4

You can google Beta Marine or go here:
 
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