Are you comfortable sleeping "while on the hook"?

[Ross]

Re: Manson Supreme for Me

I back my boat hard as I pay out rode. When I get to 6:1 or 7:1 I snub the line and when the boat stops the anchor is well set. I then shift to neutral and let the rode pull the stretch back.

 

[zeehag]

I back my boat hard as I pay out rode. When I get to 6:1 or 7:1 I snub the line and when the boat stops the anchor is well set. I then shift to neutral and let the rode pull the stretch back.

ross--is the way to do it...LOL----my ericson hasnt a windlass nor does the boat on which i am cruising at present-----but i am sooooo happy when the bottom is sand or mud---shaloe with sand over or silt over is very very bad-----i will leave if i find that bottom--will not ever grab nor stay--will always drag-----right now we are andhored in MUD in a river and have the cqr buried lol with the 30 ft of 3/8 chain buried--been here 3 days and not moved an inch LOL----the winds are 20 kts with gusts to 40 kts---we are fine LOL--we woulda been to ft myers had we left this am----gooooooood winds for sailing LOL!!!!!!(spozed to be a 24 hour sail from here )

 

[Bob S]

I have a 25# Mason Supreme with 60' of 5/16 G4 chain and 250' of 1/2" Samson dual braid nylon rode. I trust my set up and sleep pretty sound most nights, only had one bad experience this season. My GPS handheld's track showed that I dragged but quickly reset. I never felt it happen but I know why, I didn'd have enough scope with the waves we were experiencing. Tough to do in a crowded anchorage.

Last night I got back to my mooring around 8:00. My first experience sailing at night:dance:. We decided to sleep on the mooring and curled up to a movie on my laptop. Sometime after midnight it started blowing. By 6:00 this morning the waves were 4' + with winds around 20 knots with gust to 30. Even though I felt safe on a mooring it was pretty hard to sleep. Like a few have said here, picking the right anchorage is key to a good night's sleep. Part of my learning experience. I can't imagine anyone sleeping when you start experiencing waves!

 

[Bill Roosa]

Danforth and Delta

I've been using a Delta (35 lb) for two years now and have weathered some pretty bad anchorages. The PO also had a Danforth in the aft locker and I switched to the it as I had never used one and wanted to try it out. Well there where TS in the area that afternoon and night and we drug twice. Got to learn all about kudging off the second time.
I backed down the Danforth both times to 3/4 throttle and believe the anchor was well set. When the wind shifted though it just pulled out and did not reset. NEVER had that problem with the Delta. The delta has survived multiple wind changes in one night with no tripping.

 

[Roger Long]

I can't imagine anyone sleeping when you start experiencing waves!

The last time I dragged in the night was in the early 80 on one of my first cruising dates with my ex wife in a Pearson 26. The radio on the club boat wasn't working so I didn't get a weather report. We anchored in a nice lee well off a beach. For some reason I slept very soundly after finally switching into sleep mode.

The wind backed around 180 degrees in the middle of the night. I woke up to rather awsome sounds and motion. I stuck my head out the hatch to find that we had dragged close into the beach which now put us on a very long scope which was a good thing since the bow was being pulled through the waves that were dividing around the cabin trunk and running down the sidedecks.

There wasn't much I could do except go back to sleep and tell my bunkmate, "Don't worry, it's often like this." I went back to sleep figuring there wasn't anything useful I could do. The tide came in enough to move the breaker line astern of us, the wind went down, and we simply sailed away in the morning without much comment on my part.

 

[Tim R.]

Tim R., another forum member, used my Manson Supreme 25 pound on his 35 foot Ericson for quite a while, with no issues, despite a 25Lb. being rather undersized. He now has a Manson Supreme 35Lb on a 35 footer..

I sleep great especially with my Manson Supreme. I was always a little iffy with my Bruce that was too small. I did drag once. I had a properly sized Bruce on a previous boat and never had a problem but also anchored less with that boat.

Once my Manson is set I am able to reverse full throttle with no movement. I sleep very well. If it blows up at night I will wake up and check my position and sometimes let out more rode but have never dragged with the Manson.

I have even set my anchor backwards knowing the wind would turn 180° during the night.

Primary gear: 35# Manson Supreme, 50ft. of G2 5/16" chain, 250ft. 3 strand 5/8 line.

 

[Guest]

Ground tackle

Soundly. Our 30,000 pound boat has a 40 pound Danforth with 50 feet of 5/16 inch grade 40 chain, 250 feet of 5/8th inch three strand nylon rope and a 20 pound lead kellet. I've anchored hundreds of times all over PNW waters in all kinds of weather and sea state. Once it drug in Squirrel Cove on Cortez Island notorious for poor holding (thin layer of mud over hard shale).

One other time in Cocktail Cove on Lasqueti Island we had strong (40+) winds from a cold front out of Alaska. The anchor held but it was so noisy I could not sleep. Other than these two incidents since 2002, I usually sleep soundly. I do use the Loran system anchor alarm, which does give me some peace of mind.

Terry Cox

 

[Ross]

Re: Ground tackle

Terry, Based on your experience I am more than adequately supplied for ground tackle. Others may assert that you have been lucky but you have not blown ashore so your system must be adequate.

 

[Numlock]

I agree, I guess

Numlock,

How do you know of "you're safe" if you never actually set the anchor or test how it is set by actually backing down on it? Relying on the anchor to set itself is a dangerous practice to get in the habit ot. Sure in benign summer ocnditions you'll get lucky for a while but when the wind pipes up you may not be as well set as you think..

One should at least try and ascertain if the anchor is set by backing down on it with substantial reverse thrust or you just don't really know for sure. I've helped kedge many a boater off the rocks who set an anchor the way you describe. If your small aux motor can drag your anchor it is absolutely not set.

My 44 HP diesel can create about 500+/- pounds of thrust in reverse at 80% of max throttle. My 33# anchor has been shown in tests to hold in excess of 5000 pounds. If the 500 pounds of thrust my motor supplies, drags my anchor, it is absolutely & positively not set..

OK, sure. Back down to check the set after the anchor has time to settle. You can feel when the anchor catches--the boat straightens out and rides to the anchor. Then give the anchor a little time to dig in. If you start backing up too soon you just pull the anchor out. At least that has been my experience.

All I can say is that we haven't had a problem, not a single dragging event in several years and we've anchored in plenty of high wind situations, and plenty of switching wind situations. The bottoms where we anchor are almost all weeds over mud. I think the recipe is a) an oversize Bruce, b) plenty of chain, c) lots of scope, d) let it settle and dig in before you pull on it. d may esp'ly apply where you need the anchor to cut through weeds or grass.

Our biggest problem is getting the anchor up esp'ly after we've been in the same spot for two or three days or if it's been very windy. Several times it just would not budge no matter what. I learned a trick that works, I think from Chapmans. Get the anchor chain vertical and tight as you reasonably can. Then just sit there quietly for a few minutes. With any luck a passing motorboat will give you a wake, or maybe there's a little chop from the wind. You don't need much. The pressure of the bow going up and down works the anchor out every time.

Cheers,

Numlock
Sackets Harbor NY
'93 Hunter 30

 

[Cpt. Jon]

My father has a cuddy cabin motorboat that he and my mother will occasionally go camping in. I ask him about backing down the anchor and he had absolutely no idea what I was talking about... He said he never had a problem, though they only go for one or two weekends a year I think. Just seems scary to me...

Even after backing down and knowing the MS is well set, I still lounge around in the cockpit for quite some time to determine that don't seem to be moving.

 

[Scott B]

Ahoy Fellow Sailors,

Are you comfortable sleeping "while on the hook"? Does your boat have the "correct" ground tackle?

After getting hit with 52 knot winds after a 100 deg. wind shift on 3.7:1 scope and not budging an inch in a t-storm last year ..... yes I sleep very well on my anchor and ground tackle.

 

[MoonSailer]

I always have a line and float attached to the front of my claw anchor. It has saved it several times...actually the last time I anchored even with the front line retrieval was difficult. I use a stout line !!!! The Claw will bury itself pretty deep and throw in a tree branch etc and it is stuck. The float also indicates if the anchor is moving and it's location if any others wish to anchor close by.

 

[larryw]

Pretty sound. 40ft Bene, 200 feet of all chain, with a windlass, but I've slept in the cocpit before with the giant danforth rigged and ready to be let over, 25 knots of wind in Turtle Bay, MX.

 

[gettinthere]

Our Endeavour 42 weighs 25,000 dry. We have a Manson Supreme 45 lb plus 200' of 5/16HT chain. No swivel, just 2 shackles. And an old 555 manual windlass. Easier than I expected to hoist up 100' of chain.
No dragging except once in a VERY weed choked area where we could not get a set, only a huge ball of weeds.

Admiral is at the helm and we communicate with headsets. They work GREAT. When we have no way on, I let the anchor slip till it's on the bottom then tell her to nudge into reverse. As we are reversing slowly, I let chain slip out. This avoids a pile of chain on top of the anchor. I'll let out 3 or 4 to one scope and let it sit for a while before throttling up to see if we hold.
How do I check for dragging? I put my foot on the chain forward of the windlass. If it's vibrating or jumping, we're dragging. How do I know that, if the Manson never drags? I replaced a CQR with the Manson. Got plenty of experience in dragging with the CQR, and it was 45 lbs and had 3/8" chain.

In summary; use a set of headsets to communicate. They are fantastic.
Put your foot on the chain to detect dragging while setting the anchor.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Just wondering

a couple of things

For those of you who claim to "love" your anchoring systems, many of you haven't mentioned just what it is you have: i.e., 687# gorilla anchor with 7/28th inch chain that is 49 feet long, with 15/98 th inch rode of 238 feet on a Grandstar 45 footer with medium freeboard that weighs 34,472#. That seems to be the only way to define the anchoring system you have. It would be really helpful if not necessary to mention those important facts. Kinda like a discussion of heaving to where folks don't mention the size of their jibs, how many reefs in the main and the wind strength...

In Reply #5 on page one of this topic, I included a reference that included tables for sizing anchoring systems. Anyone ever checked what they have against those tables? Any feedback? Reason I ask is that I sized our anchoring system with those tables as I discussed in detail in the other link in that post, the one that includes Maine Sail's extremely valuable anchor analysis (also available on his own website).

Given the newer anchors available, and everything that has been written about Danforths, I find it hard to agree with claims that CQRs still work and that Danforths should be used for anything except stern anchors unless you can predict that the boat will always be pulling in one direction. This is not one of those "I like my anchor better than yours" points, it is based on fact and testing.

 

[cephius (Dave)]

Sleep? No.

I learned about anchoring on a 45' ketch sailing in the Channel Islands off of Los Angles in the 1960's. We always set three large Danforth anchors in a Y. We had a Yatchsman anchor in reserve. The boat never moved, even in 50 kts of wind we experienced on one trip. We had to dive on the anchors to free them after that wind.

As a result I never sleep comfortably on a single anchor. I check on things several times a night. Unfortunately most anchorages I visit now are full of boats on a single anchor and have little room. We have no choice but to swing with the rest of them.

I bought my current 26' trailer boat with day sailing in mind. We still like to anchor to have lunch. I was surprised at the equipment the dealer provided. The pivoting fluke style anchor looked large enough, but it was aluminum and shackled directly to the line. I have never felt an anchor so light. I could heave it a good 30'. It actually skipped on the surface when I retrieved it. I couldn't get it to stick in the mud of the Mississippi where we sail. Adding 10 ft of heavy chain solved that problem.

We were anchored in a cove for an evening Fire & Art festival this weekend. Many boats in a tight space. Since most sail out of marinas in the area, there is little experience with setting anchors. I watched one boat drop their anchor with their stern to the wind and then drift over it to line up with the rest of us

 

[Jim Seamans]

Joan and I are planning to take Java south next year around October. Yup we are doing it - both will be retired. How far we go is a mystery, we have no plan to be anywhere....

Have a manson supreme #45 with 40' of 5/16" chain and 200' of 5/8" 3 strand nylon. We have anchored this year in excess of 60 nights without one drag.

I'm wondering if I should increase or go to all chain and how much of it should I have on board?

 

[Maine Sail]

Have a manson supreme #45 with 40' of 5/16" chain and 200' of 5/8" 3 strand nylon. We have anchored this year in excess of 60 nights without one drag.

I'm wondering if I should increase or go to all chain and how much of it should I have on board?

Jim,

I would add more chain simply for the areas with rocky bottoms or coral heads that can chafe and tear up nylon. This would be based on your anchoring depths as to how much chain to have. I prefer to have two boat lengths minimum but that is for up here where we don't get much rock and no coral. I have 300 feet of chain that I am not connected to but can if I need to..

 

[JimRiemer]

I used to drop 1 till I was dragged in a storm - now unless the forecast is for dead calm I drop 2 anchors - a CRQ with 70' chain and a Bruce on a straight nylon rode for insurance

 

[Scott B]

Okay Stu,

Hunter 33, 10,400 lbs.
15kg ( 35lbs) Rocna,
250 ft. 5/8" 3 strand twist rope spliced to
50 ft. ht 5/16" chain
strong-arm windlass
pressure wash down pump to wash away all the mud that comes up with the anchor
81 nights on anchor in 3 seasons