This reminds me of the environmentalist who said that he would give his life to save a tree from being cut down. You honestly expect me to beleiee that if your families lives were at risk, you would drown before accepting rescue? 
Are American Sailor More Over Cautious Then European Sailors
- Thread starter JK_Boston_Catalina310
- Start date
- Status
Re: Are American Sailor More Over Cautious Then European Sai
Joe, many years ago I used to organize a recreational ski racing league in Chicago. One of the groups of people that participated were a ski club of racers from Zakopane, a small town in the mountains of southern Poland. This was back in the early 80's when they all had to escape Poland with little more than the clothes on their backs. Many of them had been on the Polish National Ski Team and a few had even been in the 1976 winter olympics.
Oh Brother, were they fun to hang out with and party with! There was no keeping up with them when they broke out the vodka. Most of them who had just arrived had the oldest skis and boots and no ski clothes but they often dominated the results. Every season, it was always interesting to see what new faces from Poland were going to be at our races.
Joe, many years ago I used to organize a recreational ski racing league in Chicago. One of the groups of people that participated were a ski club of racers from Zakopane, a small town in the mountains of southern Poland. This was back in the early 80's when they all had to escape Poland with little more than the clothes on their backs. Many of them had been on the Polish National Ski Team and a few had even been in the 1976 winter olympics.
Oh Brother, were they fun to hang out with and party with! There was no keeping up with them when they broke out the vodka. Most of them who had just arrived had the oldest skis and boots and no ski clothes but they often dominated the results. Every season, it was always interesting to see what new faces from Poland were going to be at our races.
Thanks Scott. I am glad to see some people still get what life is about.
If I were about to set out on that voyage (in a boat prepared to my likings) I would want friends to send me off with a good meal and a couple of cocktails (no this doesn't mean you are drunk).
As to the original question, I think there is much greater variation between individual sailors than there is between nationalities. I have met some American sailors that would make these Polish guys look like master mariners. And, I have met some Europeans that were strictly by-the-book on everything. A lot of it has to do with judgment, not skills or knowledge. Some people have it, and some people don't.
Are you saying that vodka has less effect on a eastern european vs a american ?? Sorry if you think I am on a "high horse" but I don't get why anyone would start a trip like that, Can't you save the drinks for when you get to your destination. Both people had most likely been up all day and then after a big meal and several drinks and toast goodbye then take off at night on a extended trip. Sorry not sure why any one was concered the charts were 15 years old or if the boat was in condition to make this trip. So lets even lower the odd of a safe trip and add alcohol to the mix. If this was your son would you advise he has several drinks then get in a car and heads out cross country ?? Sorry I just don't get it !
I never said they were drunk. Would you give your son several drinks then send him on a cross country trip in a questionable vehicle ? ? I just don't think it was a good decision. Kind of makes the condition of the boat irrevelant.
Could you not have bought him a coke and wished him a safe trip and saved the cocktails for another time ?
Again I got to question the wisdom of it and the wisdom of anyone drinking while operating boat. You may want to check the New jersey law but I think drinking (even two beers) and operating a boat is same as drinking and operating a car. Unless you advocate drinking and driving not sure why anyone would do it in a boat either.
Checking the NJ law ...
It's hard to find specific laws about open containers on a boat, but it is clear that the legal limit is a BAC up to 0.08% in NJ. It seems that it is not the same as a car with respect to open containers. All the blog references I have seen indicate that you can operate a boat and drink as long as you aren't legally under the influence.
For me, the calculator says that within a 60 minute period I would have to drink either 5 beers or 3 beers and 2 cubra libres' to match 0.08% BAC. I can't drink that much. With the sun beating on me, 2 beers overall can be a chore, and my rate in the evening is about 1 beer per hour up to 2, then the rate would have to slow down significantly probably to a max of 5 drinks for an entire day if I was really intent on drinking alcoholic drinks. (I have turned into a relative lightweight as I get older :cry
I have sipped on a beer bottle numerous times on our sail boat while the State Police have cruised by and never recieved a second glance. It would be interesting if there WERE an open container law. While boating under the influence does not seem to be a big problem (based on how few boats I see pulled over for any kind of violation) I suspect that the number of boats on the water during the weekends would be a fraction of what it is ... with a reduction of power boats like that, I think I could easily support it!
It's hard to find specific laws about open containers on a boat, but it is clear that the legal limit is a BAC up to 0.08% in NJ. It seems that it is not the same as a car with respect to open containers. All the blog references I have seen indicate that you can operate a boat and drink as long as you aren't legally under the influence.
For me, the calculator says that within a 60 minute period I would have to drink either 5 beers or 3 beers and 2 cubra libres' to match 0.08% BAC. I can't drink that much. With the sun beating on me, 2 beers overall can be a chore, and my rate in the evening is about 1 beer per hour up to 2, then the rate would have to slow down significantly probably to a max of 5 drinks for an entire day if I was really intent on drinking alcoholic drinks. (I have turned into a relative lightweight as I get older :cry
I have sipped on a beer bottle numerous times on our sail boat while the State Police have cruised by and never recieved a second glance. It would be interesting if there WERE an open container law. While boating under the influence does not seem to be a big problem (based on how few boats I see pulled over for any kind of violation) I suspect that the number of boats on the water during the weekends would be a fraction of what it is ... with a reduction of power boats like that, I think I could easily support it!
It's hard to find specific laws about open containers on a boat, but it is clear that the legal limit is a BAC up to 0.08% in NJ. It seems that it is not the same as a car with respect to open containers. All the blog references I have seen indicate that you can operate a boat and drink as long as you aren't legally under the influence.
For me, the calculator says that within a 60 minute period I would have to drink either 5 beers or 3 beers and 2 cubra libres' to match 0.08% BAC. I can't drink that much. With the sun beating on me, 2 beers overall can be a chore, and my rate in the evening is about 1 beer per hour up to 2, then the rate would have to slow down significantly probably to a max of 5 drinks for an entire day if I was really intent on drinking alcoholic drinks. (I have turned into a relative lightweight as I get older :cry
I have sipped on a beer bottle numerous times on our sail boat while the State Police have cruised by and never received a second glance. It would be interesting if there WERE an open container law. While boating under the influence does not seem to be a big problem (based on how few boats I see pulled over for any kind of violation) I suspect that the number of boats on the water during the weekends would be a fraction of what it is ... with a reduction of power boats like that, I think I could easily support it!
I think that maybe some of you are missing my point. I have a hard time with the two three or four drinks ( we don't know ) and not if they were drunk (.08) or not. I am not good with ANYONE operating a boat while drinking or shortly after drinking. The whole idea of the boat being prepared or not and safe or not then adding " few drinks" to the mix just not a good judgment call. I could care less how much they drank or did not and if they were or were not drunk. I don't need a BAC calculator to tell me if I should be operating a boat or not. Just the fact that they were leaving on a extended voyage should have been enough to NOT be drinking. I also got to believe that the eastern Europeans holding there liquor better is a myth. Plus got to think that some Poles were insulted at the implications implied about there drinking. Nice stereo-typing. Believe it if you want but I am waiting until someone proves that a persons heritage determines how well they can or can not drink. While .08 is a legal limit that determines a legal state of intoxication, half that limit will put a person at risk of being "impaired". Impaired can lead to slower reflex and poor judgment calls (among other things).
The original post seamed to have some real concerns about the boat and the operators qualifications. Given all that adding potato vodka to the mix five minutes before they cast off just did not seam prudent to me. While am not against anybody drinking and having a good time there is alway the issue of correct time and place.
Fifty percent of boating accidents involve some sort of alcohol. And Scott I will never think it is OK for anyone to operate a boat while drinking even if it just the two beers. I also checked and there is no open container boating law in New Jersey. (there is one for cars)
I noticed no one touched the comment about if they would give there son a few drinks before taking off a extended car trip.
I know I will never see eye to eye on this issue with some people so I will rest my case and just hope the two people have a safe trip.
Good point, though painting with a very broad brush. On drinking and boating and driving, I have the same rule in both the car and onboard--no drinking until the anchor is down and we aren't going anywhere until the next day. Even if you aren't legally DWI you know that it affects your judgment and reflexes, and you never know when you will need them.
I think that's a good rule at all times, but I will say that I always make sure that I am anchored in such a way that I will not be moving in the middle of the night no matter what. There have been a very few occasions where things were iffy enough so that we set an anchor watch, and then no drinking. I personally have never had much luck with GPS alarms. In many places I anchor in the Northeast it is very common for light winds to come from all directions in the night, meaning a very large bit of movement of the boat, while at the same time we might be anchored so tight to other boats or shoals that setting the alarm beyond that swinging circle wouldn't do any good either. So, it's either put up with false alarms all the time, or forget the anchor alarm. I find that I wake up anyway when there is a large change in the wind strength, direction, etc.--long before I would be dragging.
stereotypes notwithstanding ...
Here is a humorous blog entry regarding Polish and English drinking habits.
http://batorego.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/drinking-in-poland-–-the-truth/
Petersea, I don't think anybody is missing your point. I respect your attitude towards drinking and I appreciate that you have made your point, but I don't share the same concern. I don't think this is the same thing as encouraging your son or daughter to have a few drinks before departing on a road trip. The sailors that JK encountered are grown adults on their own account. They make their own decisions and will live life as they see fit. JK simply shared his comradeship and I think it is a perfectly natural thing to share a celebratory drink or 2 to mark the passage of events that put people in the same sphere. The sailors didn't look like they were offended or that they could be swayed by anybody else's opinion.
A warm-hearted toast seems like a good idea to me.
Here is a humorous blog entry regarding Polish and English drinking habits.
http://batorego.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/drinking-in-poland-–-the-truth/
Petersea, I don't think anybody is missing your point. I respect your attitude towards drinking and I appreciate that you have made your point, but I don't share the same concern. I don't think this is the same thing as encouraging your son or daughter to have a few drinks before departing on a road trip. The sailors that JK encountered are grown adults on their own account. They make their own decisions and will live life as they see fit. JK simply shared his comradeship and I think it is a perfectly natural thing to share a celebratory drink or 2 to mark the passage of events that put people in the same sphere. The sailors didn't look like they were offended or that they could be swayed by anybody else's opinion.
A warm-hearted toast seems like a good idea to me.
Re: stereotypes notwithstanding ...
Fun blog posting. Could break up the paragraphs, but that's secondary.
The comments go from the sublime to the ridiculous, sorta.
Cheers!
Fun blog posting. Could break up the paragraphs, but that's secondary.
The comments go from the sublime to the ridiculous, sorta.
Cheers!
Pete,petersea said:
I guess this is where you and I differ. I feel that adults are mature and intelligent enough to differentiate between having a drink and being intoxicated. Yes there will always be exceptions and you will read or hear about someone in an accident who has been drinking. Hopefully no one you care about is ever hurt by one of those idiots. However, if you look at that statistically, those are the outlier events.
If you don't feel you can differentiate between drinking and intoxication then it is good for you to set up zero tolerance rules for yourself. Please don't push the one the rest of us who can tell the difference.
And your analogy with the son and a cross country trip is a straw man. But to answer it, in 2000 my wife and I took 2 weeks and drove to Key West and back. Before departing we met up with my Dad for a beer and a pizza. So as long as my son (don't have any kids) understood the difference between have a drink and being intoxicated, I would have no problem giving him a couple of beers before the trip.
Now please stop hijacking this thread with a discussion about drinking and operating a boat. Start a new thread if you want to continue that discussion. Maybe one with a pol so you can see what kind of minority you are in with your zero tolerance policies towards drinking on board.
heh, heh.... the fact you even asked that question tells me you've never been to an Armenian christening...... but yes.... it's called tolerance.
Don't preach to me, friend........ I've been sober for 17 years... and there isn't anything you can tell me about the dangers of alcohol that I don't know... But I can enlighten you a bit....take it easy when you don't know the people or all the facts.
Didn't really get your analogy.... I think this was about sharing a farewell drink with a friend?
JK,
Good suggestion. Just to be clear,my zero tolerance is toward operating a boat while drinking (or have been drinking shortly before) not drinking on board. Sorry don't believe I am in a minority about drinking and operating. Sorry you think I stole your thread but I thought your original post was about safety and boat condition. I guess I made the leap that Alcohol consumption and operating a boat were not safe. May I also assure you that I can differentiate between drinking and intoxication and somewhere in the middle is "impairment" Right time and place for everyone and operating a boat or car while drinking is is just not smart..... I am also astounded you would give you son (if you had one) a "couple of beers" before a extended car trip. Really ?
Phil @Sailboatowners.com
Maybe make this a weekly pole question. With the question of zero tolerance for drinking while operating or moderate consumption while operating or drink all you want while operating.
Thanks
- Status