Another solar question.

KD3PC · Nov 29, 2009

If mounted correctly, they should weather well...however the walmart brand for panels or regulator will not last long. I am not sure what you mean about not having to "use shorepower"..but 40 watts of panels will barely keep your bilge pumps running...

You will likely have to have at least 80-100 watts (or more) and a decent weather proof/marine regulator to keep batteries sharp and have a full time bilge pump.

For more running equipment/lights/gear you really need to do a "solar budget"...

all the best,
dave

Bill Roosa · Nov 29, 2009

best cases

a 20 watt panel will be, at best sun and orientation, producing a whopping (20/12=) 1.66 amps. Since you will not be seeing that but for 4 nanoseconds each totally sunny day that the wind is blowing the boat so the panels are EXACTLY due south you should plan for significantly less output.
I'd say 0.5 amp for 3 hours each sunny day and half that on cloudy days
That is 1.5 Ah each day or if you bilge pump runs at 1.5 amps about an hour of continuous running each day. Probably doable as the bilge should not be running that much anyway.
not sure why a keel stepped mast matters
Most marinas are pretty secure but you might ask the manager or other slip owners to get a feel. If it is bolted down then you are probably going to be OK. Weather is another issue entirely. Old mother nature will snatch your stuff in a heart beat so securing it against her is of more import in my mind. If mother nature can't snatch it nobody else is going to bother it.

zeehag · Nov 29, 2009

Ed Schenck said:
Not quite what I was expecting. My Rule 2000 runs at 8.5 amps. Worst case unless the boat is sinking would be four times a day for a total of eight minutes. I think that equates to less than 2 amp-hours. Are you suggesting that I have to plan for the pump to be running full-time? I guess with shorepower that would be possible.

The WalMart panels are from ICP, a Canadian company. They get good reviews from what I can see. Maybe a metal frame is better though. Being in Florida I was hoping for more like five to six amps per day.

The keel-stepped mast matters because that is the source of the bilge water. The only other hole in my boat(without a valve) is the stuffing box. It was rebuilt when I installed a new engine in 2005.

you are going to need so much more than mere 20 wt panels---if only that size, there will accrue so many panels ye have no place for folks....why not save a bit more money and buy larger panels which could almost do the job you need to have done?? 20 wtts isnt even trickel charging the system -- if ye leaver the bimini frame up you can mount the panels to that---if you take it down, where will you find enough space ot install the many panels you will eventually need to make your systems actually function???...i would consider thinking this over a bit longer--until there is a good sized kitty to use for the conversion----ye may end up with a couple 120 watters and some real charging power......if your ultimate goal is self suffieiency, go for larger panels..and larger panels means a larger capacity regulator---all this is costly----plan ahead as far as ye can.....

Sumner · Nov 29, 2009

Ed Schenck said:
Not quite what I was expecting. My Rule 2000 runs at 8.5 amps. Worst case unless the boat is sinking would be four times a day for a total of eight minutes. I think that equates to less than 2 amp-hours. Are you suggesting that I have to plan for the pump to be running full-time? I guess with shore power that would be possible.

The WalMart panels are from ICP, a Canadian company. They get good reviews from what I can see. Maybe a metal frame is better though. Being in Florida I was hoping for more like five to six amps per day.

The keel-stepped mast matters because that is the source of the bilge water. The only other hole in my boat(without a valve) is the stuffing box. It was rebuilt when I installed a new engine in 2005.

I would think that a plan that could run the pumps full time would have to include shore power either as the main source or a backup source.

If you are talking about the needs you quoted of less than 2 amp hours a day then you are correct that even a 20 watt would probably work where you are since you get more sunlight hours in the day than those of us that are north of you.

That being said why not work at it a little harder and mount at least a 40 watt panel permanently on the boat and take care of some of your needs while under way and would help with the theft problem.

Solar Panel Install....

I got the above 40 watt panel from...........

solarblvd.com

...........................for $160.00 last summer and it is only $135...........

http://www.solarblvd.com/product_info.php?info=p1401_Solar-Cynergy-40-Watt-12-Volt-Solar-Panel.html

...........now. I'm going to get another one myself so that we have 80 watts of solar since we plan on adding the frig (see my other post).

They also have a 60 watt for..........................

http://www.solarblvd.com/index.php?cat=c41_60---95-Watt--10-.html

...................... $199.00. You will also need to get a controller from them, but they aren't that expensive for the PWM charge controllers.

We were happy with their service and got the panel in short order. As I mentioned I'm ordering from them again.

Good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

shorty · Nov 29, 2009

20w works fine for me

and I'm in Maine. On a mooring, bilge pump on float switch, that's all, no lights when away. Keeps 2 each 105 AH Lifetime AGM batteries topped up really nicely. I leave boat for 2-6 week periods. Installation shown below.
I would not buy from Walmart.
I do have a regulator that work with both batteries.
In 2007 Duralite panel was $174 and Eco Energy ASC20 regulator was $51. One of the best purchases I have made.

Sumner · Nov 29, 2009

Ed Schenck said:
............ Does your "adding the frig" mean that you have stopped looking for the "big" boat?

Yep, once we found out from the guys here and here................

http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=114127

.............that we weren't old at all

and had lots of years of sailing ahead of us we decided to put it off at least another year and a half and hopefully try some coastal cruising in Florida this time next year with the little Mac.....

http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=114047

Figure out a place to mount a fixed solar panel and you won't regret it.

Good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

Mike B1026 · Nov 30, 2009

Walmart (crap)

Be very careful buying from Walmart. Just because a company builds a good product, doesn't mean the model you buy from Walmart will be the same.

Not to make a long post, let me just say I have talked with numerous manufacturers over the years that sell to Walmart. They always say the same thing. Walmart does not place a lot of importance on quality, it's only price, price, price. In one instance, the manufacturer told Walmart they would not make a their product that low of quality, they wouldn't want their name on it. Walmart said fine, we will put or store brand name on it. They made it to the lower standards that Walmart wanted but didn't put their name on it.

Most companies will not stand behind models made for Walmart. Walmart backs those with their own warranty. Thats great if you want to keep returning the same crappy merchandise to them.

Ed Schenck said:
Not quite what I was expecting. My Rule 2000 runs at 8.5 amps. Worst case unless the boat is sinking would be four times a day for a total of eight minutes. I think that equates to less than 2 amp-hours. Are you suggesting that I have to plan for the pump to be running full-time? I guess with shorepower that would be possible.

The WalMart panels are from ICP, a Canadian company. They get good reviews from what I can see. Maybe a metal frame is better though. Being in Florida I was hoping for more like five to six amps per day.

The keel-stepped mast matters because that is the source of the bilge water. The only other hole in my boat(without a valve) is the stuffing box. It was rebuilt when I installed a new engine in 2005.

Capn Bill · Nov 30, 2009

Ed Schenck said:
I know, there is already an active solar thread. And I got about 1200 hits in “Search”. So I have already decided on one or two 20w Coleman panels with regulator from WalMart. The objective is to not have to use shorepower. The only draw being the bilge pump because of a keel-stepped mast.
The question is about mounting on an absentee owner’s boat where storms are prevalent. Is security a problem for example? Does it have to be mounted such that theft is difficult? Then where since the bimini frame is not an option? When I am away for long periods the bimini is put away and the frame folded up. What other issues am I forgetting?

We just bought a couple of those Coleman solar panels to try and keep our new Optima AGM batteries charged while on the hard this winter. I was getting too old to carry those batteries up and down a ladder every fall and spring. I removed all the leads except those solar chargers and hope I'll have good batteries come spring. We mounted them on the life-lines since my winter cover is a "boom tent" type. I'll let you know how this idea works. Capn Bill on STARGAZER

moparv104x4 · Nov 30, 2009

My sailboat is on a mooring in Michigan, for the last 3 years I have used one 15w solar panel mounted on the cabin top behind the mast to keep the two house batteries a group 27 and 31 charged. The boat is used mostly on weekends with occasional 10 day stays. I motor only to get off the mooring and get through a 2 mile channel to get into Lake Michigan. I run the stereo most of the time we are on the boat. The auto pilot and GPS are always on when we are underway. Most nights I watch the news on the TV powered off the batteries with an inverter. I also use the inverter to power up my laptop to check out the internet and watch movies. I like to read at night on the boat so I also run enough interior lights to be able to do that. My 1 cheap 15w panel with charge controller from Sportsmen’s Guide keeps up with my use and the batteries rarely drop below 50%. Last year I only spent 2 nights in a marina where the boat was plugged in and one was while I was making repairs to my cooling system.

Captandrew · Nov 30, 2009

Ed,
I live on my boat in St Petersburg. And I have Solar Panels. My current install includes 2 X 85 Watt panels with regulator, and it provides 100% of my needs. But, for over a year I was not living aboard and had just a single 85 watt, which took care of my bilge pump, Refrigeration, and occasional Stereo etc. during visits. Not only that but the golf cart batteries overcharged and dried out. I had more than enough power. When I came back aboard I upgraded,adding a regulator. So it can be done. However I do recommend not using Walmart panels for the previously mentioned reasons. Close by you have Hotwire enterprises, at Tarpon Springs. You will get excellent free advice, and good prices if/when you do buy. John and Libby are extremely knowledgeable. They will also be at the St Pete Boat Show next weekend, with deals. If you have not done anything yet I will be happy to talk.

Buck420 · Nov 30, 2009

Ed Schenck said:
I know, there is already an active solar thread. And I got about 1200 hits in “Search”. So I have already decided on one or two 20w Coleman panels with regulator from WalMart. The objective is to not have to use shorepower. The only draw being the bilge pump because of a keel-stepped mast.
The question is about mounting on an absentee owner’s boat where storms are prevalent. Is security a problem for example? Does it have to be mounted such that theft is difficult? Then where since the bimini frame is not an option? When I am away for long periods the bimini is put away and the frame folded up. What other issues am I forgetting?

Remember, as Bill said, you will only get 20 WATTS out of the panel at noon on June 21st on a cloudless day. And most panels rate their wattage at 15 (or more) volts, making the actual IDEAL amperage output ~ 1.2-1.3 amps per hour for your 20 watt panel.
On a cloudless Winter day in Fla with ~ 8 hrs of usable sunlight you might get 4 or 5 amps out of the panel for that 24 hr period. If there is anything but full sun, your actual daily amperage output will be less, often much less.
I would not count on 2, 20watt panels delivering more than an AVERAGE of maybe 4 amps per (24hr)day.

I have 2,( [FONT=verdana,arial]Uni-Solar PVL-68T Solar[/FONT] ) 68 watt panels and associated regulator, breakers, etc (They roll up, measure 16" x 9', and I mount them on brackets on top of my boom... I have in-mast furling).
On a sunny day within a few hrs of noon their combined output is 6-7 amps per hour. The output drops off from there. Not sure of total daily output because I haven't used them too many times; but plan to do so later this Winter when I put the boat out on a mooring in Boot Key.

sailaway78 · Nov 30, 2009

Size of house bank

Ed,
If you have a decent size house bank, you will not need to use a regulator with those smaller panels. I would think that a 200ah house bank, with two 20 watt panels, using a regulator would just be a waste of money.

rpwillia · Nov 30, 2009

Here is what I have

A 15 Watt single panel mated to a BatteryMindr charge controller. As we mostly day sail with an occasional 3-7 day trip during the year it is fine. I normally do not plug into shore power.

As a side note I recommend the BatteryMindr charge controller as it has a desuplhinator circuit which I believe helps your battery life. When I first got the panel and charger my #1 battery would not crank the diesel - after installation I got another 3 years out of the battery.

rpwillia · Nov 30, 2009

Here are the pictures

Note that I used the existing wires run from the batteries to the shore power charge.

JoelHoover · Dec 2, 2009

I just wanted to reinforce the earlier post about Wal-Mart products.

It is very true. No matter what the brand, all manufactrers downgrade their product quality to meet Wal-Mart cost and volume demands.

dserrell · Dec 3, 2009

Another solar question.

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