Another Lithium conversion ... Hunter 49 Schematic

[tkwhalen]

Similar to Maverick I plan on making the change to lithium lifepo4 this winter. To help with my planning I could really use a schematic of the 2007 Hunter 49 electrical lay out; that is much more detailed then ones available in the Hunter Manuals on this site. I am wondering if any other 49 owners have taken the time to create one or got their hands one from some where else. (I'm looking at you artboss and semperavanti141as you two seem to have done more upgrades and have more knowledge then the rest of us amateurs). Something that shows every shunt, bus bar, fuse, switch, breaker and major component (generator, shore power plug, isolator, inverter/charger, alternator etc.) and how they all flow together wrapped up in a big red ribbon would be great.

Thanks for any help

 

[artboas]

Similar to Maverick I plan on making the change to lithium lifepo4 this winter. To help with my planning I could really use a schematic of the 2007 Hunter 49 electrical lay out; that is much more detailed then ones available in the Hunter Manuals on this site. I am wondering if any other 49 owners have taken the time to create one or got their hands one from some where else. (I'm looking at you artboss and semperavanti141as you two seem to have done more upgrades and have more knowledge then the rest of us amateurs). Something that shows every shunt, bus bar, fuse, switch, breaker and major component (generator, shore power plug, isolator, inverter/charger, alternator etc.) and how they all flow together wrapped up in a big red ribbon would be great.

Thanks for any help

All the info is, more or less, in the online documents . You just have to stitch the wiring together.
The generator & shore power are connected through the power distribution box, and are handled with relays.
There is only one shunt, and it’s in the battery compartment. It connects to the Magnim unit.
If you have the isolation transformer, this is also shown, along with a modification permitting to run the boat from 120 Volts.
You’re welcome to contact me with any further questions. I think I know every inch of wiring on this boat

 

[Maine Sail]

I would suggest startin* your research here:

Drop-In LiFePo4- Be an Educated Consumer

Lead is Dead! (except for start batts) Warning: This article is long and detailed. It may require two reads so the nuances and detail are not missed. You may be wondering why I am saying lead is dead ? The answer to that is simple;

marinehowto.com

 

[tkwhalen]

All the info is, more or less, in the online documents . You just have to stitch the wiring together.
The generator & shore power are connected through the power distribution box, and are handled with relays.
There is only one shunt, and it’s in the battery compartment. It connects to the Magnim unit.
If you have the isolation transformer, this is also shown, along with a modification permitting to run the boat from 120 Volts.
You’re welcome to contact me with any further questions. I think I know every inch of wiring on this boat

Artboas

I've pulled all the stuff online for the 49. Maybe I need to check out the documentation for the 50.
Couple of questions.... what's a magnim unit? I assumed the one shunt I see in the bilge with the batteries fed the voltage read out at the Nav Station.... and the only power distribution box I know of is with the AC panel. Therefore I have assumed that the generator and shore power both must go through the invertor charger before going to the panel... as such I assumed that the automated relays doing the switching were built into the invertor generator ... sounds like I am way off base but looking at the diagrams on the site I don't see an other distribution box except the one at the panel ... again thanks for any education and help here

 

[Hayden Watson]

Similar to Maverick I plan on making the change to lithium lifepo4 this winter. To help with my planning I could really use a schematic of the 2007 Hunter 49 electrical lay out; that is much more detailed then ones available in the Hunter Manuals on this site. I am wondering if any other 49 owners have taken the time to create one or got their hands one from some where else. (I'm looking at you artboss and semperavanti141as you two seem to have done more upgrades and have more knowledge then the rest of us amateurs). Something that shows every shunt, bus bar, fuse, switch, breaker and major component (generator, shore power plug, isolator, inverter/charger, alternator etc.) and how they all flow together wrapped up in a big red ribbon would be great.

Thanks for any help

Will you be doing a DIY build or drop-in(ish). The needs are different for each setup.

 

[tkwhalen]

Will you be doing a DIY build or drop-in(ish). The needs are different for each setup.

I will be upgrading the current system first, alternator, charger/inverter etc so they can be set up to support lithium. Thus why I am intrested in having a detailed understanding of my existing set up. After that updating I will add drop in with a BMS that will support my windless, power winches and bow thruster. Got some decisions to make about start battery vs house and using dc to dc vs a dump system. It's a process.

 

[mermike]

Who knows what the prevoius owner(s) did? The only way you'll get an accurate wiring diagram is to trace it out. You will learn much of what you need to know in the process.

Start with crude drawings of what you can see. Post pictures and ask questions. Refine as you go.

 

[artboas]

Who knows what the prevoius owner(s) did? The only way you'll get an accurate wiring diagram is to trace it out. You will learn much of what you need to know in the process.

Start with crude drawings of what you can see. Post pictures and ask questions. Refine as you go.

Actually, the 49 was wired fairly completely from the factory with respect to batteries & charging. If anything, it was overdone.
The only changes I’ve made to the DC system was replacing my charger / inverter to the Magnum Energy unit. The boat came with a high output alternator, genset , etc.
My battery choice is “old school” though… I have 6v AGM batteries. I went through 2 rounds of lead acid first, which were not optimal. I’m not sure what I’ll do when the AGMs are due to be replaced.
The issue is that going to Lithium requires a rework of all my DC charging, and for sailing on Lake Ontario, it’s not worth it. I can see the benefits for long distance cruising, but I’m not in that category right now.

 

[Hayden Watson]

Who knows what the prevoius owner(s) did? The only way you'll get an accurate wiring diagram is to trace it out. You will learn much of what you need to know in the process.

Start with crude drawings of what you can see. Post pictures and ask questions. Refine as you go.

Truth! On my C30 there is not a single component in the power distribution / charging system that was installed by Catalina.

 

[CliveCollett]

On my 49, the PO had specified the balmar external regulator. This with the blue sea battery combiner provide protection for the alternator. The Magnum can be adjusted to limit the charging current and absorption/float voltages.
My solar controllers have settings for lithium.
I have used 3 200Ah Ultimatron drop in batteries with built in BMS protection and Bluetooth connectivity.
The only other changes were to connect all 3 batteries to a Distibution point (bus bar but with a pretty blue case) using the same length cables. This has been working fine for 5 months so far. I have left the engine start battery as a standard LA for simplicity and alternator protection in the event of a lithium disconnect. The house bank also runs the 1 powered winch, anchor windlass and bow thruster. With the exception of the winch, the others tend to be used when the engine is running.
I may add a 4th battery next year and another 230W solar to my existing 700w. This should give us unlimited time away from marinas should we choose to do so.

 

[tkwhalen]

On my 49, the PO had specified the balmar external regulator. This with the blue sea battery combiner provide protection for the alternator. The Magnum can be adjusted to limit the charging current and absorption/float voltages.
My solar controllers have settings for lithium.
I have used 3 200Ah Ultimatron drop in batteries with built in BMS protection and Bluetooth connectivity.
The only other changes were to connect all 3 batteries to a Distibution point (bus bar but with a pretty blue case) using the same length cables. This has been working fine for 5 months so far. I have left the engine start battery as a standard LA for simplicity and alternator protection in the event of a lithium disconnect. The house bank also runs the 1 powered winch, anchor windlass and bow thruster. With the exception of the winch, the others tend to be used when the engine is running.
I may add a 4th battery next year and another 230W solar to my existing 700w. This should give us unlimited time away from marinas should we choose to do so.

Thanks CliveCollett

Are the Ultimatron's the same size of the old 8 D's? ? It appears based on you comments that batteries built in BMS combined with the battery specs that they are able to handle the large volumes of through put to run your windless, thruster and electric winches. Which charger invertor are you using in your set up? Do you have a generator in the system?

 

[Hayden Watson]

Thanks CliveCollett

Are the Ultimatron's the same size of the old 8 D's? ? It appears based on you comments that batteries built in BMS combined with the battery specs that they are able to handle the large volumes of through put to run your windless, thruster and electric winches. Which charger invertor are you using in your set up? Do you have a generator in the system?

If you are looking for a high capacity 8D drop-in, you might look at these. I have a couple coming for my motorhome which will give me 920Ah in the space that is currently holding my (6) golfcarts. They are built with EVE 230Ah cells in a 2p4s configuration with JBD 250A BMS's with Bluetooth so you can set the parameters to your own limits if you prefer.
Mine should be here later this month and I plan to report on my findings. I have seen several tear-down videos on the Basen packs, and they are pretty solidly put together.

 

[CliveCollett]

Thanks CliveCollett

Are the Ultimatron's the same size of the old 8 D's? ? It appears based on you comments that batteries built in BMS combined with the battery specs that they are able to handle the large volumes of through put to run your windless, thruster and electric winches. Which charger invertor are you using in your set up? Do you have a generator in the system?

The previous batteries were 200Ah AGMs and the 200Ah Ultimatrons are the same size but about a 3rd of the weight. I assume 8 D's are an American make?? and I have no knowledge of them but the Ultimatrons are 522mm L*240mm W*218mm H. As the batteries are connected together using equal length cables, they share high loads equally so no issues. Each have a maximum discharge rate of 150A. I have the Magnum inverter charger fitted and have used the custom settings to adjust for the lithium. I also have the 11Kw FP generator installed but have not run that yet as I need to change the exhaust hose. I dont expect a problem as that feeds the AC side so nothing to do with the batteries.
Ultimatron Lithium battery-EN (ultimatron-france.fr)

 

[Zencra]

I will be upgrading the current system first, alternator, charger/inverter etc so they can be set up to support lithium. Thus why I am intrested in having a detailed understanding of my existing set up. After that updating I will add drop in with a BMS that will support my windless, power winches and bow thruster. Got some decisions to make about start battery vs house and using dc to dc vs a dump system. It's a process.

I have 6x100ah Battleborns installed, a victron Orion dc-dc charging start battery, 170amp Balmar alternator/wakespeed 500 alt regulator/ balmar apd, charging house along with 900 watts solar and silentwind pro. I have kept the original magnum inverter charger a custom set it to charge to 98%.

 

[tkwhalen]

I have 6x100ah Battleborns installed, a victron Orion dc-dc charging start battery, 170amp Balmar alternator/wakespeed 500 alt regulator/ balmar apd, charging house along with 900 watts solar and silentwind pro. I have kept the original magnum inverter charger a custom set it to charge to 98%.

Thanks ... I think I will be close to your set up. Plan on using Victron and Battleborn wrestling with start battery thinking of the new lithium start battery from Dakota so it can be on the house charging system vs maintaining a wet cell start battery and using dc to dc. I have the same alternator but will need to change it's regulator. Two questions where did you mount the solar panels and how did you run the wiring? How do you like your silentwind wind generator?

 

[Hayden Watson]

I have 560Ah LFP and a group 21 AGM start battery. I have all loads isolated and charge them both through an ArgoFET isolator. I have the charge voltage of the alternator set to 14.2V which is fine for both the AGM and the LFP. The Argofet keeps the batteries totally isolated when they are bine discharged but allows the alternator to charge both. My external regulator limits the output of the alternator to about 60% of max and will shut it off if the alternator case temperature gets too high.

 

[Zencra]

Thanks ... I think I will be close to your set up. Plan on using Victron and Battleborn wrestling with start battery thinking of the new lithium start battery from Dakota so it can be on the house charging system vs maintaining a wet cell start battery and using dc to dc. I have the same alternator but will need to change it's regulator. Two questions where did you mount the solar panels and how did you run the wiring? How do you like your silentwind wind generator?

our solar is mounted to a SS frame that in incorporated into the factory Hunter davits we have, otherwise I would build an arch over stern of boat to take the 6x150 watt panels. I have them setup as 2 banks of 450 watts wired back through 2x victron controllers. the silentwind has been excellent in places like the the Caribbean and when we crossed the Atlantic but has been fairly useless here in the Med. I have just replaced the bearings and cleaned brushes which has helped a bit. would I install on again with hindsight? Yes, in our situation I would, if I was just coastal cruising and staying in marinas, no I wouldn't. Currently we are in a marina for the first time in 4 years, we have just had 36 hours of 40-50 kts and was only seeing 1.5 amps at best as we're sheltered with buildings etc.

 

[tkwhalen]

our solar is mounted to a SS frame that in incorporated into the factory Hunter davits we have, otherwise I would build an arch over stern of boat to take the 6x150 watt panels. I have them setup as 2 banks of 450 watts wired back through 2x victron controllers. the silentwind has been excellent in places like the the Caribbean and when we crossed the Atlantic but has been fairly useless here in the Med. I have just replaced the bearings and cleaned brushes which has helped a bit. would I install on again with hindsight? Yes, in our situation I would, if I was just coastal cruising and staying in marinas, no I wouldn't. Currently we are in a marina for the first time in 4 years, we have just had 36 hours of 40-50 kts and was only seeing 1.5 amps at best as we're sheltered with buildings etc.

Any chance you could send pictures of how your solar array is mounted on the factory davits?

 

[Zencra]

I have 560Ah LFP and a group 21 AGM start battery. I have all loads isolated and charge them both through an ArgoFET isolator. I have the charge voltage of the alternator set to 14.2V which is fine for both the AGM and the LFP. The Argofet keeps the batteries totally isolated when they are bine discharged but allows the alternator to charge both. My external regulator limits the output of the alternator to about 60% of max and will shut it off if the alternator case temperature gets too high.

doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a high output alternator and at 14.2 you're a fair way off full charge?

 

[Hayden Watson]

doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a high output alternator and at 14.2 you're a fair way off full charge?

As for the 14.2v, anything over 13.8v (3.45v/cell) with a short amount of absorption time will get an LFP to full charge. My battery, on shore power is charged 60A charging current. To recharge from 0% SOC to 100% SOC whould take the following.

• A fully discharged at 0% SOC at 10v [2.5v/cell] (the bottom limit where the BMS shuts the battery off) it would take about 10-minutes to raise it to 12v [3.0v/cell],
• about 9 hours to raise it to 13.8v [3.45v/cell]
• Another 15-minutes to raise it to 14.6v (3.65v/cell)

On shore power, I charge only the LFP and it is set for 13.8V with a 12A tail current which gets it to 100% without worrying about tripping the high cell voltage limit in the BMS.

The purpose of a high output alternator is to recharge a battery bank as fast as the alternator is capable of. None of the "high output alternators" that I know of are capable of charging a large LFP bank at full output without overheating. My alternator is an old Ample Power 108A externally regulated alternator. It has heavy duty windings and should be able to run continuously at a case temperature of 100ºC [210ºF].

When I installed my battery, I found that the alternator temperature would be going past 95ºC about 10-minutes after it started charging. I have a fully sound insulated engine compartment and it was staying at over 80ºC just from the engine. I throttled the alternator to 60A AND run my bilge blower anytime the engine is running and that lowered the case temp to 90ºC max. I have now rerouted the bilge blower so that it is pulling the hot air directly from the alternator's cooling fan and that lowered the case temp to about 80ºC. I further plan to add a cool air duct with blower fan that blows cool outside air directly into the alternator inlet ports which will allow me to increase the output current. My aim is to set it as high as I can while staying below 90ºC.

I am currently limited to 60A mostly due to the 3/8" v-belt and cannot go higher than that until I install a serpentine belt.