Anchors: Opinions requested

[jibes138]

The Best Anchor

If you want to see the best anchor look at what they use on multimillion dollar yachts. You don't see any of the anchors mentioned here. These guys aren't going to put these kinds of investments at risk and the professionals on the crew know what to use.

 

[Maine Sail]

If you want to see the best anchor look at what they use on multimillion dollar yachts. You don't see any of the anchors mentioned here. These guys aren't going to put these kinds of investments at risk and the professionals on the crew know what to use.

Really? Considering I have worked on vessels like you speak of, and was employed during the building of another one, for the owner I worked for, I can assure you these anchors are not purchased for the performance. They are purchased for two reasons; sheer weight and stowability. A third reason is aesthetics (stainless). Most any large yacht anchors out rarely and when they do there is a paid crew and captain on or near the bridge at all times. These anchors are bought and designed to stow flat when hoisted against the port and stbd bow and that is criteria #1...

I vote for Jibes to replace the anchor on his boat with an equivalent weight Navy type anchor and let us all know how it works...

 

[sailingdog]

I wouldn't go with a 15 lb. Bruce. You might be okay with a 15 lb. Delta, but only if you're planning on anchoring in relatively settled conditions. Personally, I'm a firm believer in upsizing ground tackle a bit, and would recommend going with a 22 lb. Manson Supreme or Rocna. They'll hold your boat in pretty much most conditions you'd ever want to be on the boat in given a good bottom to set in.

Ive got an old 20lb CQR anchor. Its never been easy to set. Ive decided to replace it next season. Ive narrowed my choices down to either a delta or bruce anchor. I think 15 lbs should be about right for my P26W at about 5000lbs displacement I would appreciate hearing from anybody with experience on either anchor

 

[shemandr]

Help

Thanks to all the poster for their input. I have had anchoring problems with my 356 since I got it. I replaced the 10' of chain with an all chain rode (50'). Still drags. I replaced the 22 lb Delta that came with the boat with a 35. It was worse. That anchor wouldn't set for s***. I'm anchoring in sand/mud where I have for years with other boats with nary a care.
I think the delta skips along the bottom as described by Maine Sail. I propose the heavier one was worse because the chain topples it to lay on its side (As it does in the back of my car). In any event I'm done with them.
The 356 sails around the anchor a lot and snaps up violently which I think pulls the Deltas out. I've tried riding sails, rudder over, but only with limited success.
I've spent a lot of today reading about the spade, rocna and manson supreme. Then I've re read these postings again and again. I think I'm settling on one of these anchors.
Does Maine Sail take seriously the criticism of the Manson Supreme in regard to its construction and quality on this page: http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/manson-supreme-anchor.php
Should I lose the all chain rode or should I put a snubber and chain hook system on? How much snubber and what material?
For the 356 what size would be Rx'ed?
Attached is a pic of my Tradition Danforth which held on a very wind (Gusts to 45) night but was damaged. This anchor did better than the Delta by far.

 

[David in Sandusky]

Shemandr: Scope

Shemandr, tell us about where you are anchoring. Having a CQR anchor pull out every time just doesn't sound right to me, unless there is grass on the bottom, the scope is too short, or there is some other systematic problem.

50' sounds short to me. I'll bet it's close to 10 feet from your bow to under your keel. At 5:1 recommended scope for an all chain rode, that would use all of your rode chain. If there is any tide, or depth beyond your keel, you don't have enough scope and the anchor could easily pull out. I would think 100 feet of chain would be the minimum.

I'd probably add 150 feet of good nylon line to the 50' of chain, then you are good for any anchorage we have been in.

 

[Maine Sail]

Does Maine Sail take seriously the criticism of the Manson Supreme in regard to its construction and quality on this page: http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/manson-supreme-anchor.php

No I do not!! While the Rocna is built to a higher standard the Manson Supreme is not going to fail anyone any time soon. It is a great anchor for a good price.

I own and currently use a Rocna but the Manson Supreme IMHO is just as good a performer. I have well over 100 anchorings on both the Rocna and the Manson Supreme and both, save one incident with a string of lobster traps, has set within inches not even feet every single time at 100%. I never, ever thought I would see 100 for 100 sets with no issues. Both anchors are rock solid. Do you want to drive a Toyota (Manson Supreme) or the Lexus (Rocna). If I had to do it over again I might buy another Manson just based on the cost...

Just out of curiosity how are you setting your anchor? How much scope? The Fast Set is generally a decent setter, not exceptional setting but good, and is intended to set from resting on it's side. Personally of the older gen anchors I'd rather have a real Bruce (upsized) than a Delta but the Delta's are generally not a terrible setter? I agree a 22lb Delta on a 35 footer is way too small..

Should I lose the all chain rode or should I put a snubber and chain hook system on? How much snubber and what material?

Keep the chain but use a good elastic three strand snubber to prevent shock loading. The more stretch the line has the better..

Watch how this Spade sets in very, very hard sand. I drive my truck on this are and it barely dents the surface. The Fast Set will set similarly though not as well in this location as the Spade did..

Spade Setting Video (LINK)

 

[Stu Jackson]

If your boat sails around at anchor

try a bridle. Lin & Larry Pardey suggest it in one of their books. Tie a line to your anchor rode (chain or rode) let the rode out a bit more to have this line near the water, and run it back to one of your winches, and crank away until you're cocked off the wind, the boat should steady down.

Rocna or Manson Supreme, what's the question - given the personal research done and reported here, ditch your Delta and get a "real" anchor.

Our 22# Rocna has been superb for our 34 foot boat. I sized the anchoring SYSTEM - including all the parts and shackles, etc. for 42 knot winds. If you think you need more for more wind, then size your entire system accordingly. Calder's Cruising Handbook gives very good instructions for the system and component sizing.

 

[Tim R.]

The Manson Supreme is an excellent anchor. I have been borrowing Maine Sail's Supreme for a season+. I have more than 40 sets and have never had a problem. It is even one size too small for my boat and I have been in some blows with it.

 

[Maine Sail]

I have more than 40 sets and have never had a problem. It is even one size too small for my boat and I have been in some blows with it.

Make that 140+ sets at a 100% first try rate..

 

[Stu Jackson]

I don't understand your

"all chain rode" of 50 feet (replacing the 10 feet of chain).

Glad you increased the length of chain, but that ain't an "all chain rode" it's just the beginning. If you're anchoring in 10 feet of water, for a 7:1 ratio with five feet of freeboard, you need 10 + 5 = 15 X 7 = 105 feet of total rode.

Do the math.

 

[seadaddler]

Shemandr

I have same boat as you now the 36 with 35 Delta 50 ft chain 200' line and have no problems,25 kts at Block with 7 to 1 scope,Shelter Island,and all over Long Island never had a problem except one time in Sag Harbor because I did not put out proper scope and she did drag,she does like to swing a lot.
I am thinking you must be not putting out proper scope 5 to 1 or even better
7 to 1 .
When spring comes go out and see what happens when you put out more scope.
I just anchored out a few nights in the keys and same thing no problems.
Try when things get warmer for you.
Nick

 

[sailingdog]

Thanks to all the poster for their input. I have had anchoring problems with my 356 since I got it. I replaced the 10' of chain with an all chain rode (50'). Still drags. I replaced the 22 lb Delta that came with the boat with a 35. It was worse. That anchor wouldn't set for s***. I'm anchoring in sand/mud where I have for years with other boats with nary a care.

I'm a bit confused as how you can have an all-chain rode only 50' long. Most boats need to have at least 150-200' or so of anchor rode. If you're anchored in 10' and have 4' to the bow roller from the water, and you're anchoring with a 7:1 scope, you'd need 98' of chain out.

For a 35' boat, you probably want to go with at least 33 lb. Rocna or Manson Supreme. If you're going with an older design, you'd probably want a 40-45 lb. Bruce or Delta. Be aware that the real Bruce anchor hasn't been made for a few years, and that there is a significant difference in quality between the knockoffs and the original.

 

[jibes138]

Navy Anchor

My buddy has about a 10 pound navy anchor that he uses on his 17 foot downeaster powerboat. He found the anchor for about 5 bucks at a yard sale. It is a two piece design so it stows nicely. I laughed at him when I first saw it but I have seen it used on many occasions to hold the boat in the surf zone at the beach. I might be able to dig up a picture of it if you guys are interested.

 

[jibes138]

Picture Found

Here is the picture of the navy anchor at the beach. It is dug in as good as the spade movie that mainesail sent us.

 

[Ross]

An ideal anchor will bury itself and the harder you pull the deeper it will bury. But there are a few problems with creating an ideal anchor. It must be heavy enough to penetrate to bottom the pull must be such that the flukes actually dig into the bottom. Not a steep enough angle of attack and it will skid too steep and it will just cultivate the bottom. Too small an area on the flukes and it won't have enough resistance to draging. The list and the search is very long.

 

[newly anonymous]

if we're talking cruising, the real question ought to be...

...what COMBINATION of anchors do you carry?

On my boat, it's a Rocna and a Fortress.

Traded the Delta that came with the boat for a really good bottle of wine. Felt I got the best of that deal.

 

[jibes138]

Anchor Expert

A friend of mine has the perfect anchor set up. He uses it for every hurricane. He never hauls his boat preferring to use his anchor set up. He uses a 700 pound (danforth equivalent) ancher and he uses a large cable to attach the boat to the anchor and he uses rubber tubing over the cable for chafe protection. He never drags and never chafes through the line. His only threat to his boat is other boats that decide to anchor near him. His storm anchor is permanently installed in the bottom and his GPS guides him to it when needed. So take a lesson from him.

 

[Maine Sail]

A friend of mine has the perfect anchor set up. He uses it for every hurricane. He never hauls his boat preferring to use his anchor set up. He uses a 700 pound (danforth equivalent) ancher and he uses a large cable to attach the boat to the anchor and he uses rubber tubing over the cable for chafe protection. He never drags and never chafes through the line. His only threat to his boat is other boats that decide to anchor near him. His storm anchor is permanently installed in the bottom and his GPS guides him to it when needed. So take a lesson from him.

Dave,

I'm curious to hear about your "friends" thoughts on shock loading?

So take a lesson from him.

I think I'll continue to use a system proven in year round use on Maine's off shore islands & Canadian Maritimes where peoples vessels are their lifeline. I'll stick with one that has been proven to work for thousands of boats and many, many years for the waters I moor in. I would hope anyone would not just listen to one "expert" who is using a system no one else does and one that goes against the grain of proven techniques and has no measure to prevent shock loading..

In over 35 years of mooring boats I have yet to have one break or chafe free and that includes the 15 years, a few hurricanes and many Nor' Easters when I moored my boats, including my commercial lobster boat, in the open exposed ocean in NH's Plaice Cove.

Perhaps you missed a post I made from this past fall where a Pearson Flyer dragged a decent sized Danforth onto the beach when he tried to anchor it off Plaice Cove (pictured above).

...what COMBINATION of anchors do you carry?

On my boat, it's a Rocna and a Fortress.

That's a very good point NA. For me on board I carry a Rocna, Fortress & a steel Spade. At home, in the barn & for back up, an aluminum Spade, Super Max, Danforth, two genuine CQR's and a Manson Supreme & genuine Bruce (both on loan), sold the Fast Set with my powerboat..

 

[Tim R.]

I knew MS would chime in on that one!

I will have a properly sized Manson Supreme and a Danforth in the locker this season.

 

[jibes138]

Shock Loading

My "friend" is currently on a long distance voyage to Puerto Rico and the Islands for the winter. He is a former salvage captain and also captained a research vessel for a while. Yes he uses shock absorbers but I don't know specifically what he uses. He sails a steel cutter, about 34 feet, that was built in England and has three Atlantic crossings. In short he's a pretty experienced knowledgeable character.
I'm not suggesting there aren't other ways to skin a cat, but this works for him in North Carolina where we get about a hurricane a week in peak season.