I am the proud new owner of a Hunter Passage 420 -- resulting in part from the advice on the thread "Should I buy a 420?" on this site a few months ago. The 2002 Hunter 420 Passage comes with a standard issue Lewmar Delta Fast Set 44 lb anchor with 20 ft of chain. I have so far anchored 4 times, and have had this anchor drag once in about 25 to 30 kts of wind (the highest we've experienced). This was in Chesapeake Bay mud, with probably not quite enough scope -- maybe 5X rather than 7X. As 420 owners know, the 420 tacks quite widely at anchor - going through at least 90 deg. My previous boat was a Catalina 36, on which I had a 33 lb Bruce. That anchor immediately set, ALWAYS held -- no exception, no question. Based on this experience, I'm considering going to the Lewmar Claw, being the Bruce knock-off at about 1/3 the price. Also rather than going to the 44 lb Claw as a replacementfor the 44 lb Delta, I'm considering going to the next size up -- the 66 lb Claw. I'm also considering going to the Anchor Sail as a means of reducing the tacking at anchor. My Questions: What experience have any 420 owners had with the holding performance of the standard issue 44 lb Delta? I'd be interested in the experience of any owners who have sweitched to the Bruce or Claw -- and hearing of the results. In particular -- any input on switching to a 66 lb Claw would be appreciated. I have an electric windlas which does a good job of stowing the Delta when it gets to the bow roller. Any insight on how the Claw would behave? Any experience with the Anchor Sail? There appear to be 3 sizes -- any insight to which size to use? They seem quite big, as in 10 ft X 10 X 9. Also -- the Hunter 420 does not have an aft stay -- any lessons learned on how to best rig the Anchor Sail? Any inputs will be appreciated. Thanks 224R Cool Hand
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Anchor Sail
Banner Bay Marine has an anchor sail made specifically for boats with no backstay. Just got mine last week, so no time to evaluate it yet.
Banner Bay Marine has an anchor sail made specifically for boats with no backstay. Just got mine last week, so no time to evaluate it yet.
Fortress?
As I recall, Fortress has a 'mud' setting. However, I don't know what your local custom is for anchors. We anchor in sand bottoms in SoCal and the Delta is a popular anchor, along with the many Danforth types.
As I recall, Fortress has a 'mud' setting. However, I don't know what your local custom is for anchors. We anchor in sand bottoms in SoCal and the Delta is a popular anchor, along with the many Danforth types.
All Chain Rode
I used a 55 pound delta and 300 feet of all chain rode as my primary anchor on a Hunter 450. It set and held very well. I think it was the chain that made the difference. If I were you I would consider getting chain. The chain also works better in the windlass.
I used a 55 pound delta and 300 feet of all chain rode as my primary anchor on a Hunter 450. It set and held very well. I think it was the chain that made the difference. If I were you I would consider getting chain. The chain also works better in the windlass.
been down the same road
We have a 2003 420 and our previous was also a Catalina 36. We now have a 66lb Bruce with all chain rode. I also looked into an anchor sail including jury rigging one to see if it would help. We should talk. I don't want to give out my telephone number to the world here but if you send me yours at x0101@comcast.net I'll call you. Are you in the Chesapeake Catalina 36 club? If so look for the Hunter 420 in the roster.
We have a 2003 420 and our previous was also a Catalina 36. We now have a 66lb Bruce with all chain rode. I also looked into an anchor sail including jury rigging one to see if it would help. We should talk. I don't want to give out my telephone number to the world here but if you send me yours at x0101@comcast.net I'll call you. Are you in the Chesapeake Catalina 36 club? If so look for the Hunter 420 in the roster.
420, all chain
Coolhand Good choice! We had the same problem with our 420. We still have our original delta but went to 150' of chain and more scope depending upon conditions. Haven't had a problem of draging since. An added advantage of the all chain is that the windlass performs like it should. For the windlass to work right with rope, I always had to have tension on it otherwise it would begin to slip. In addition I have a bruce also mounted on the spare anchor roller for special circumstances, but haven't had to use it yet.
Coolhand Good choice! We had the same problem with our 420. We still have our original delta but went to 150' of chain and more scope depending upon conditions. Haven't had a problem of draging since. An added advantage of the all chain is that the windlass performs like it should. For the windlass to work right with rope, I always had to have tension on it otherwise it would begin to slip. In addition I have a bruce also mounted on the spare anchor roller for special circumstances, but haven't had to use it yet.
Thanks for your responses
Hi, Folks. Thanks very much for all the responses, tips and good ideas. Seems like Mike, Pete, and Gahaghan all agree that chain is the way to go. Looking up my boat manual, it seems like I have 20 ft of 5/16 chain, and 250 ft of 5/8 rope. Is 5/16 what you use with the anchor windlas? I have what I think is the standard Hunter Simpson Lawrence windlas. I noticed in the Hunter manual, that they describe 5/1 scope with rope, and 3/1 scope with chain, interesting. I've read some things about high test chain vs regular chain vs BBB -- any comments or references on that? What about the added weight of chain? Looking it up in the West catalog, 5/16 is about 1 lb/ft -- so that's an additional 150 to 200 lb in the bow -- did you notice any effect of that? "They" say not to put too much weight in the ends of the boat -- of course, there's the dingy hanging off the stern. Pete -- are you in the C-36 club or the Hunter North Chesapeake club? I'm still in the C-36 club. Ed, I've just ordered a Banner Bay Marine Anchor Sail -- the largest one, with the webbing AND the hanks. I figure I can hank it to my topping lift and hoist it with the spare halyard. I just hope I can reasonably reach the aft end of the boom -- darn high. We're going out for a week, next week, so I wanted to help the anchoring situation now. It just seems like the excessive tacking of the 420 at annchor would put too much strain on any anchor, and be able to pull it out. Rick, I guess I'll have a better feel for the Delta in Chesapeake Bay mud after next week. Again, thanks to all for your responses, and any further comment would be appreciated. Cool Hand
Hi, Folks. Thanks very much for all the responses, tips and good ideas. Seems like Mike, Pete, and Gahaghan all agree that chain is the way to go. Looking up my boat manual, it seems like I have 20 ft of 5/16 chain, and 250 ft of 5/8 rope. Is 5/16 what you use with the anchor windlas? I have what I think is the standard Hunter Simpson Lawrence windlas. I noticed in the Hunter manual, that they describe 5/1 scope with rope, and 3/1 scope with chain, interesting. I've read some things about high test chain vs regular chain vs BBB -- any comments or references on that? What about the added weight of chain? Looking it up in the West catalog, 5/16 is about 1 lb/ft -- so that's an additional 150 to 200 lb in the bow -- did you notice any effect of that? "They" say not to put too much weight in the ends of the boat -- of course, there's the dingy hanging off the stern. Pete -- are you in the C-36 club or the Hunter North Chesapeake club? I'm still in the C-36 club. Ed, I've just ordered a Banner Bay Marine Anchor Sail -- the largest one, with the webbing AND the hanks. I figure I can hank it to my topping lift and hoist it with the spare halyard. I just hope I can reasonably reach the aft end of the boom -- darn high. We're going out for a week, next week, so I wanted to help the anchoring situation now. It just seems like the excessive tacking of the 420 at annchor would put too much strain on any anchor, and be able to pull it out. Rick, I guess I'll have a better feel for the Delta in Chesapeake Bay mud after next week. Again, thanks to all for your responses, and any further comment would be appreciated. Cool Hand
Catalina 36 Fleet 3 is the club
I'm very anxious to hear of your experiences with the anchor sail since you will be the first person I know with a 420 to use one. I think the only way to know how it will work on a 420 is to put it on a 420. Comparisons to other boats is not foolproof.
I'm very anxious to hear of your experiences with the anchor sail since you will be the first person I know with a 420 to use one. I think the only way to know how it will work on a 420 is to put it on a 420. Comparisons to other boats is not foolproof.
Anchor Sail
Pete -- part of my motivation in buying the Anchor Sail was that the previous owner had one and claimed that it reduced the anchor tacking substantially. He bought a larger boat, and took the sail with him. I also wonder about the use of a kellet (?) if that 's the right term -- sliding a weight down the anchor rhode to pur more catenary in it? Any experiences with that approach among the 420 owners? Cool Hand
Pete -- part of my motivation in buying the Anchor Sail was that the previous owner had one and claimed that it reduced the anchor tacking substantially. He bought a larger boat, and took the sail with him. I also wonder about the use of a kellet (?) if that 's the right term -- sliding a weight down the anchor rhode to pur more catenary in it? Any experiences with that approach among the 420 owners? Cool Hand
Cool Hand, I always use a 20 pound ...
kellet at anchor. It's the standard down rigger's ball with a large carabiner. Once I set the anchor I clip the ball on and let it ride down the rode to the chain shackle. I use the windlass to bring everything up. Our windlass takes 5/16th high test, or grade 40. I would not use the lower grade BBB. Terry
kellet at anchor. It's the standard down rigger's ball with a large carabiner. Once I set the anchor I clip the ball on and let it ride down the rode to the chain shackle. I use the windlass to bring everything up. Our windlass takes 5/16th high test, or grade 40. I would not use the lower grade BBB. Terry
Terry
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you only suppose to let the kellet down to just before bottom. aka...if you are anchoring in 20' of water, you put the kellet on a 18' line and let it ride down the 18'. At least that's how it has been explained to me. I've thought about getting one but right now my stern anchor works well for me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you only suppose to let the kellet down to just before bottom. aka...if you are anchoring in 20' of water, you put the kellet on a 18' line and let it ride down the 18'. At least that's how it has been explained to me. I've thought about getting one but right now my stern anchor works well for me.
About Delta Anchors
Mike -- thanks for your input. We have just cruised the Chesapeake (mud) for the last week, and have had a mediocre to poor experience with the 44 lb Delta that appears to be standard on the larger hunters. WE had it drag at least 3 times, and it's pretty insidious (?) in that it doesn't break loose, but ploughs through the mud slowly. In view of my super experience with a 33 lb Bruce on our former Catalina 36, I have ordered a 66 lb Claw, (appears to be identical to Bruce at 1/3 the price) and hope to put it on the boat in the next few weeks. I have one concern -- the larger Claw/Bruce hitting the bottom of the jib furling drum as the windlass hauls it in. Any experiences or comments would be appreciated. Cool Hand, Hunter 420
Mike -- thanks for your input. We have just cruised the Chesapeake (mud) for the last week, and have had a mediocre to poor experience with the 44 lb Delta that appears to be standard on the larger hunters. WE had it drag at least 3 times, and it's pretty insidious (?) in that it doesn't break loose, but ploughs through the mud slowly. In view of my super experience with a 33 lb Bruce on our former Catalina 36, I have ordered a 66 lb Claw, (appears to be identical to Bruce at 1/3 the price) and hope to put it on the boat in the next few weeks. I have one concern -- the larger Claw/Bruce hitting the bottom of the jib furling drum as the windlass hauls it in. Any experiences or comments would be appreciated. Cool Hand, Hunter 420
Clearance for a Bruce
You inquired relative the clearance for a 65 # Bruce. This has not been a problem. Our 65 # Bruce has been very easy to use, especially with the all chain rod. It must be that the grass and mud conditions on the Gulf side of the keys was our problem with the bruce. We have cruised in your area and had no problem with the bruce. Good luck, Mike
You inquired relative the clearance for a 65 # Bruce. This has not been a problem. Our 65 # Bruce has been very easy to use, especially with the all chain rod. It must be that the grass and mud conditions on the Gulf side of the keys was our problem with the bruce. We have cruised in your area and had no problem with the bruce. Good luck, Mike
66 # bruce on 420
My experience with the 66# Bruce on a 2003 420 is you do need to be careful bringing it up because it will hit the furling drum. My current procedure is to tap the switch so the shank starts to come above the roller then sit down and manually haul it up. I'v done this the last couple of times and it seems to keep the furler from getting beat up.
My experience with the 66# Bruce on a 2003 420 is you do need to be careful bringing it up because it will hit the furling drum. My current procedure is to tap the switch so the shank starts to come above the roller then sit down and manually haul it up. I'v done this the last couple of times and it seems to keep the furler from getting beat up.
Clearance and Anchor Sail
Thanks, all, for your comments on the 66 lb Bruce/Claw and clearance issues. Pete, especially based on your experience, seems like some care may be in order, and I'll try what you suggested first. Regarding the Anchor Sail -- from Banner Bay Marine -- Ed and Pete -- we used it during our week cruise of the Chesapeake, -- VERY successful. Particular instance: We were planning to spend the night anchored behind the WW II sunken concrete ships of the breakwater of Kiptopeke just 10 mi south of the town of Cape Charles. By the way -- a really interesting place to visit - 9 concrete Liberty ships were towed there and sunk in the '50s to form a breakwater for the ferry pier for the Norfolk to Eastern Shore railroad ferry. But I digress -- we had a 15 kt wind from the south, and a 1 kt current from the north. The anchoring was really awkward -- the bow was pointed mostly North into the current from the North, and the anchor rhode went down our Stbd side, with the boat pushed North with the wind from the south -- if you can picture that. It was very unsettling, and I was concerned about the anchor rhode getting wrapped around the fin keel, or rudder, or prop, etc. So - we put up the Anchor Sail for the first time. ---- Immediately, the world went right side up, the boat faced South into the wind, the anchor rhode went forward from the bow, and the stern was into the current -- all was stable. By the way, it was an uncomfortable night, wind against current in a relatively exposed anchorage, etc. But -- the Anchor Sail paid for itself right there. One question, for the first and last time, that night, we had loud vibration/noise that appeared to be coming from below -- like vibrating rigging, but no rigging was vibrating, that I could reeach. Any experience like this?? In further use -- the boat does tack with the anchor sail, but within reason -- i'd say +/- 45 deg. WE have the largest of the sails, and the configuration with the luff webbing AND the hanks. I asked for 5 hanks, but when I clip the sail to our spare main halyard, and try to pull it up with our spare jib halyard (led aft to the end of the boom) the hanks twist, and I can't get the sail up. The simple solution -- use the top and bottom hank, let the other 3 dangle. Anyway -- that's my story -- hope it was helpful. Cool Hand, H 420
Thanks, all, for your comments on the 66 lb Bruce/Claw and clearance issues. Pete, especially based on your experience, seems like some care may be in order, and I'll try what you suggested first. Regarding the Anchor Sail -- from Banner Bay Marine -- Ed and Pete -- we used it during our week cruise of the Chesapeake, -- VERY successful. Particular instance: We were planning to spend the night anchored behind the WW II sunken concrete ships of the breakwater of Kiptopeke just 10 mi south of the town of Cape Charles. By the way -- a really interesting place to visit - 9 concrete Liberty ships were towed there and sunk in the '50s to form a breakwater for the ferry pier for the Norfolk to Eastern Shore railroad ferry. But I digress -- we had a 15 kt wind from the south, and a 1 kt current from the north. The anchoring was really awkward -- the bow was pointed mostly North into the current from the North, and the anchor rhode went down our Stbd side, with the boat pushed North with the wind from the south -- if you can picture that. It was very unsettling, and I was concerned about the anchor rhode getting wrapped around the fin keel, or rudder, or prop, etc. So - we put up the Anchor Sail for the first time. ---- Immediately, the world went right side up, the boat faced South into the wind, the anchor rhode went forward from the bow, and the stern was into the current -- all was stable. By the way, it was an uncomfortable night, wind against current in a relatively exposed anchorage, etc. But -- the Anchor Sail paid for itself right there. One question, for the first and last time, that night, we had loud vibration/noise that appeared to be coming from below -- like vibrating rigging, but no rigging was vibrating, that I could reeach. Any experience like this?? In further use -- the boat does tack with the anchor sail, but within reason -- i'd say +/- 45 deg. WE have the largest of the sails, and the configuration with the luff webbing AND the hanks. I asked for 5 hanks, but when I clip the sail to our spare main halyard, and try to pull it up with our spare jib halyard (led aft to the end of the boom) the hanks twist, and I can't get the sail up. The simple solution -- use the top and bottom hank, let the other 3 dangle. Anyway -- that's my story -- hope it was helpful. Cool Hand, H 420
good inputs on 420
Cool Hand- You have now become the leading expert on anchor sails for the 420. Please keep is informed. I'm especially interested in how it does in heavy winds, eg thunderstorms Don't think I've had the vibration you are describing.
Cool Hand- You have now become the leading expert on anchor sails for the 420. Please keep is informed. I'm especially interested in how it does in heavy winds, eg thunderstorms Don't think I've had the vibration you are describing.
Vibration
Your vibration is probably the chain or line vibrating in the current. All rodes will vibrate, particularly as the wind and current increase because they are just basically taut strings--like a violin. There can also be a crunching sound as the boat tacks on the hook. All perfectly normal. Enjoy.
Your vibration is probably the chain or line vibrating in the current. All rodes will vibrate, particularly as the wind and current increase because they are just basically taut strings--like a violin. There can also be a crunching sound as the boat tacks on the hook. All perfectly normal. Enjoy.
Lewmar Claw, the rest of the story
Well -- I did it and want to share the results. I took off the 44 lb Delta and with bigger shackels put on the 66 lb Lewmar Claw/Bruce look-a-like. The only installation drawback is that the hole at the front of the Claw doesn't line up with anything to put a pin through. So, for the moment, I have a 3/8 in line attached to a SS hook through the Claw and tied to the anchor locker cleat to further support the anchor when it's stowed, in addition to the windlass and chain. First results -- we anchored overnight in the Chesapeake Bay mud, in a 10 - 15 kt breeze, 15 - 20 towards morning, with some degree of boat motion. We also rigged our now habitual anchor sail. The Claw set at once, absolutely held and did not budge for the entire 12 hours or so that we were there. Maybe I'm just biased, but it sure felt much more comfortable than I ever felt with the 44 lb Delta.
Well -- I did it and want to share the results. I took off the 44 lb Delta and with bigger shackels put on the 66 lb Lewmar Claw/Bruce look-a-like. The only installation drawback is that the hole at the front of the Claw doesn't line up with anything to put a pin through. So, for the moment, I have a 3/8 in line attached to a SS hook through the Claw and tied to the anchor locker cleat to further support the anchor when it's stowed, in addition to the windlass and chain. First results -- we anchored overnight in the Chesapeake Bay mud, in a 10 - 15 kt breeze, 15 - 20 towards morning, with some degree of boat motion. We also rigged our now habitual anchor sail. The Claw set at once, absolutely held and did not budge for the entire 12 hours or so that we were there. Maybe I'm just biased, but it sure felt much more comfortable than I ever felt with the 44 lb Delta.
Wah wah at anchor
Do you have in mast furling? I find the lines in the boom will start to vibrate as the topping lift vibrates. Everything gets into a rythm an it sounds like a big cello! Letting off the topping lift helps, but that would not work if flying the sail. you may loosen the lines for the outhaul and try to wiggle them loose in the boom
Do you have in mast furling? I find the lines in the boom will start to vibrate as the topping lift vibrates. Everything gets into a rythm an it sounds like a big cello! Letting off the topping lift helps, but that would not work if flying the sail. you may loosen the lines for the outhaul and try to wiggle them loose in the boom
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