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Ross...
While additional scope is a good idea it's not the answer. I have spent many hours diving on anchors (not just mine) and I can tell you that in 12 to 15 knots the chain is NOT sitting on the bottom constantly and instead goes from straight to fairly slack with about 6 to 12 feet resting intermittently on the bottom. Obviously the more chain the better but once you hit 18 knots even all chain goes straight/slack, straight/slack. Over 25 and even a 30lb kellet does nothing! The size of the anchor DOES matter because it's what's HOLDING the boat every time that chain goes tight. I've also watched many a CQR, even properly sized ones, inch forward on every surge doing what they do best plowing a furrow along the bottom. The CQR is not a high holding power anchor and to suggest that it's OK to use an undersized CQR, for anything other than a lunch hook, is just plain wrong! No one can guarantee benign conditions overnight even in the Chess. One funny thing I notice every time I'm involved in helping someone who has dragged anchor is the comment: "I've never dragged before?". Yes and there is always a first for everything especially when 80% of boaters I witness anchoring NEVER properly set their anchors in the first place and wouldn't know scope if it bit them on the nose! Go ahead and use that 20 pounder but please don't visit Maine!
While additional scope is a good idea it's not the answer. I have spent many hours diving on anchors (not just mine) and I can tell you that in 12 to 15 knots the chain is NOT sitting on the bottom constantly and instead goes from straight to fairly slack with about 6 to 12 feet resting intermittently on the bottom. Obviously the more chain the better but once you hit 18 knots even all chain goes straight/slack, straight/slack. Over 25 and even a 30lb kellet does nothing! The size of the anchor DOES matter because it's what's HOLDING the boat every time that chain goes tight. I've also watched many a CQR, even properly sized ones, inch forward on every surge doing what they do best plowing a furrow along the bottom. The CQR is not a high holding power anchor and to suggest that it's OK to use an undersized CQR, for anything other than a lunch hook, is just plain wrong! No one can guarantee benign conditions overnight even in the Chess. One funny thing I notice every time I'm involved in helping someone who has dragged anchor is the comment: "I've never dragged before?". Yes and there is always a first for everything especially when 80% of boaters I witness anchoring NEVER properly set their anchors in the first place and wouldn't know scope if it bit them on the nose! Go ahead and use that 20 pounder but please don't visit Maine!
I understand anchoring
Nice N Easy, trust me I understand anchoring, it's why I can't agree with those who suggest he use a plow anchor that's too small on the Chesapeake. The bay has a mostly mud bottom and provides good holding in most cases. The primary anchors both sail and power boaters use up here are either danforths or deltas as a result. The CQR is a very capable anchor but it's not the best in these conditions. We have thunderstorms roll through here on a regular basis in the heat of summer. Many pop up out of nowhere and bring powerful winds with them. All of those protected coves Ross speaks of get quite crowded on a weekend. Using an undersized anchor that's better suited to other conditons may be fine on a calm night, I just don't want to be down wind of him if a storm rolls through. Mike
Nice N Easy, trust me I understand anchoring, it's why I can't agree with those who suggest he use a plow anchor that's too small on the Chesapeake. The bay has a mostly mud bottom and provides good holding in most cases. The primary anchors both sail and power boaters use up here are either danforths or deltas as a result. The CQR is a very capable anchor but it's not the best in these conditions. We have thunderstorms roll through here on a regular basis in the heat of summer. Many pop up out of nowhere and bring powerful winds with them. All of those protected coves Ross speaks of get quite crowded on a weekend. Using an undersized anchor that's better suited to other conditons may be fine on a calm night, I just don't want to be down wind of him if a storm rolls through. Mike
lots of things have been mentioned here, but ONE
Space!!!!! everyone has there own preferences as to chain, type of anchors etc. in the worst of situations what you don't want is to be dragging and not to have the space to move and not be in danger. those nice little holes are usually full of others that hav'nt set properly or there just isn't space for everyone to do so. ie worton, fairlee,ordinary point etc. at least if you set where you have space you can always lay out more line to get more scope even if its a 20 to 1. a number of years ago we were caught in fairlee when a tornado blew thru. 100knots plus. we just laid out more line and held well. can't say the same for everyone else. fortunately it was in the middle of the week and there were only about three or four others in there. i hate to even think what it would been like on a weekend. SPACE! SPACE is high on the list. S/V Que Pasa?
Space!!!!! everyone has there own preferences as to chain, type of anchors etc. in the worst of situations what you don't want is to be dragging and not to have the space to move and not be in danger. those nice little holes are usually full of others that hav'nt set properly or there just isn't space for everyone to do so. ie worton, fairlee,ordinary point etc. at least if you set where you have space you can always lay out more line to get more scope even if its a 20 to 1. a number of years ago we were caught in fairlee when a tornado blew thru. 100knots plus. we just laid out more line and held well. can't say the same for everyone else. fortunately it was in the middle of the week and there were only about three or four others in there. i hate to even think what it would been like on a weekend. SPACE! SPACE is high on the list. S/V Que Pasa?
trade it in
My boat came with the standard 22# delta. On my previous boat I always used an oversized Fortress. I found a company at the Strictly Sail Philly show that was willing to take my 22# as trade-in for a larger 35# delta. Game me about 80% of the value for a new 22#. A no-brainer in my opinion. contact me if you want the companies name. I'll tell you that the old 22# looked brand new (not sure it was used much). I now carry the 35# delta as primary with 50' for 5/16 chain and a oversized fortress in the stern locker as a backup.
My boat came with the standard 22# delta. On my previous boat I always used an oversized Fortress. I found a company at the Strictly Sail Philly show that was willing to take my 22# as trade-in for a larger 35# delta. Game me about 80% of the value for a new 22#. A no-brainer in my opinion. contact me if you want the companies name. I'll tell you that the old 22# looked brand new (not sure it was used much). I now carry the 35# delta as primary with 50' for 5/16 chain and a oversized fortress in the stern locker as a backup.
Thanks for the feedback
Hey Folks: Thanks for the replies. Lots of things to consider in what you have said. I think that a little test is in order. I'll let you know how it plays out. Kevin
Hey Folks: Thanks for the replies. Lots of things to consider in what you have said. I think that a little test is in order. I'll let you know how it plays out. Kevin
CQR?
1. You do not have a CQR. You have a cheap copy. It would be a good idea to quit referring to it as the genuine article. 2. Copies are bad. 3. It's too small anyway. Ross - catenary etc, follow the link.
1. You do not have a CQR. You have a cheap copy. It would be a good idea to quit referring to it as the genuine article. 2. Copies are bad. 3. It's too small anyway. Ross - catenary etc, follow the link.
It is interestint to note that weight not area
seems to be the defining charactaristic of an anchor. But is a 40 pound anchor twice as big as a 20 pound anchor. Will a 20 pound anchor on a 10 to 1 scope hold as well as a 40 pound anchor on a 5 to 1 scope?
seems to be the defining charactaristic of an anchor. But is a 40 pound anchor twice as big as a 20 pound anchor. Will a 20 pound anchor on a 10 to 1 scope hold as well as a 40 pound anchor on a 5 to 1 scope?
higgs, not necessarily true
straight line holding power is not necessarily a true test of an anchor. More important IMHO, is the ability to reset itself during a wind shift. I've used the Rocna all season ( every weekend over the summer and 3 separate weeks out) and very often ended up doing a 180 deg. swing overnight and one night 270 deg.) I snorkled over the anchor in clear water and observed the drag patterns in the sand and could see how the anchor STAYED dug in, we didn't pull out and reset, but turned and held. Some nights we had 15 - 20 knot winds during the shifts. Most bottoms I set in are sand, mud and weeds. I pulled up a weed ball 5 ft. dia. and still held after the danforth ( fortress) dragged that I had set off the stern to stop being pushed into shore by passing boats in a very busy area we anchored for several nights. BTW I have a 33lbs. Rocna, 50 ft. chain and 250 ft. rode on an 11,000 lbs boat.
straight line holding power is not necessarily a true test of an anchor. More important IMHO, is the ability to reset itself during a wind shift. I've used the Rocna all season ( every weekend over the summer and 3 separate weeks out) and very often ended up doing a 180 deg. swing overnight and one night 270 deg.) I snorkled over the anchor in clear water and observed the drag patterns in the sand and could see how the anchor STAYED dug in, we didn't pull out and reset, but turned and held. Some nights we had 15 - 20 knot winds during the shifts. Most bottoms I set in are sand, mud and weeds. I pulled up a weed ball 5 ft. dia. and still held after the danforth ( fortress) dragged that I had set off the stern to stop being pushed into shore by passing boats in a very busy area we anchored for several nights. BTW I have a 33lbs. Rocna, 50 ft. chain and 250 ft. rode on an 11,000 lbs boat.
Fortress is aluminum ? so is surface area more
important than weight? If you were to make a 35 pound aluminum plow would it hold better than a 35 cast steel plow? All of this presumes that there is no material failure.
important than weight? If you were to make a 35 pound aluminum plow would it hold better than a 35 cast steel plow? All of this presumes that there is no material failure.
????
From what I can tell, a Fortress does not have significantly more surface area than a comparable Danforth, and, in fact, seems to have less. I have a Fortress as a backup, but it just looks too small to take seriously even though I have the size prescribed for my boat. From what I can see, surface area is not the issue.
From what I can tell, a Fortress does not have significantly more surface area than a comparable Danforth, and, in fact, seems to have less. I have a Fortress as a backup, but it just looks too small to take seriously even though I have the size prescribed for my boat. From what I can see, surface area is not the issue.
Agree with the "can't agrees"
The anchor you have, as pointed out is a CQR copy. In theory you would think that CQR's would be one of the best anchors; I know I initially did. By design, you think boat swing on the anchor would be just fine, but the tests just don't bear this fact out. Also even the real CQR's don't set very well and drag easily; again looking at them you'd think they'd dig in quickly. You will find many folks like them but also many folks who have not been happy with them. The anchor you have is too small for your boat as well; I agree with the rest. I know Craig comes on these forums and pitches his Rocna but there are enough folks out there who have tried them out and are very happy with them. I would prefer to own a Rocna but purchased a 22 lb Delta plow instead as money was an issue and I was purchasing an entire anchor system, bow roller, hawse pipe, anchor chain retarder, line, chain, shakles, etc so I had to compromise with the Delta. So far I am happy with the Delta but when my boat costs have settled down (refitting an older boat) I will definitely get a Rocna.
The anchor you have, as pointed out is a CQR copy. In theory you would think that CQR's would be one of the best anchors; I know I initially did. By design, you think boat swing on the anchor would be just fine, but the tests just don't bear this fact out. Also even the real CQR's don't set very well and drag easily; again looking at them you'd think they'd dig in quickly. You will find many folks like them but also many folks who have not been happy with them. The anchor you have is too small for your boat as well; I agree with the rest. I know Craig comes on these forums and pitches his Rocna but there are enough folks out there who have tried them out and are very happy with them. I would prefer to own a Rocna but purchased a 22 lb Delta plow instead as money was an issue and I was purchasing an entire anchor system, bow roller, hawse pipe, anchor chain retarder, line, chain, shakles, etc so I had to compromise with the Delta. So far I am happy with the Delta but when my boat costs have settled down (refitting an older boat) I will definitely get a Rocna.
I don't know if this has been talked about,
I have tried to follow with limited time. Two things: #1 Cantenary: Yes more is better but you can exceed what the bottom can hold if the anchor is not designed for the bottom structure you are trying to grab. #2 The thing I worry most about is reset. If a light anchor does not set, it sails through the water. Even good anchors will sail through the water if the boat picks up speed while trying to reset. I have decided that the bruce style will almost always try to reset as it is pulled through 360 degrees. Most other anchors will be completely dislodged. Most don't have ability to reset at a different or changing angle. I have Bruce Knockoffs. I still like them. The Bruce still delivers more/ pound than other anchors. r.w.landau
I have tried to follow with limited time. Two things: #1 Cantenary: Yes more is better but you can exceed what the bottom can hold if the anchor is not designed for the bottom structure you are trying to grab. #2 The thing I worry most about is reset. If a light anchor does not set, it sails through the water. Even good anchors will sail through the water if the boat picks up speed while trying to reset. I have decided that the bruce style will almost always try to reset as it is pulled through 360 degrees. Most other anchors will be completely dislodged. Most don't have ability to reset at a different or changing angle. I have Bruce Knockoffs. I still like them. The Bruce still delivers more/ pound than other anchors. r.w.landau
I suspect that anchors are getting a little like
performance boats. Every new inovation is an improvement and we can scrap the old. Anchors are made of iron because you can get a lot of it cheap. Can you make an anchor that holds better than a traditional anchor of course. can you make it for less money and sell it for less money ? perhaps not. If you can make it for less will you sell it for less? Hell No! You will promote it and hope that you get endorsements and make enough money to let the crew of your boat worry about the anchor.
performance boats. Every new inovation is an improvement and we can scrap the old. Anchors are made of iron because you can get a lot of it cheap. Can you make an anchor that holds better than a traditional anchor of course. can you make it for less money and sell it for less money ? perhaps not. If you can make it for less will you sell it for less? Hell No! You will promote it and hope that you get endorsements and make enough money to let the crew of your boat worry about the anchor.
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