all lines back to cockpit ??????

[kloudie1]

Lines led to Cockpit

Much better/quicker/easier if you plan on "tweeking" .. The hunter 34 came with lines led aft .. that was one of the things on my selection list that led me to that boat. I had sailed several different boats on long distance runs and in races .. I liked being able to do most work from the cockpit. Ya have to carefully coil the halyards and have 'em handy so that they can run freely if necessary.. Still have to go to mast to rig the cunningham.. and the outhaul. The halyards are coiled such that if you pick 'em up off the winch and lay them on the cockpit seat, the clutch can be released and they will run freely, 99% of the time without hockles or tangles.

 

[larryw]

My Bene had all the control lines led to the cockpit, and under a shroud so there are no lines on deck to slip on or trip over. I love it.

 

[BaySailMD]

Absolutely at the top of my list of best things I've done.

For years I mulled over bringing most of the lines of my O'Day 34 into the cockpit. I am so sorry I waited. It wasn't cheap because I also needed to install additional winches and cleats. Routing was not entirely obvious. But what a difference!

 

[Absolutely]

Sure a lot of answers. If the girl in the picture is going forward each time, I would leave the lines alone. If not.....? My boat has generally all lines run to the cockpit under the dodger. I really don't care but when the wind is over 30 knots, I care. I am not sure what the percentage increase in movement is around the mast in rough seas but it tends to be a little softer in the cockpit. You still need to go forward to set and unset poles, tie up the main sail, and in a real blow, you might have to tie up the ginny. If you are alone, always scary out there even with the jack. If you have crew that is a bit new, easier to show and tell in the cockpit. Good luck on your choice.
Gene

 

[Union36]

YuBetcha!

We've had 3 cruisers, 25 Coronado, 27 O'Day & a Union 36. I've rigged all 3 boats aft to the cockpit to make single handing easier because I do that alot. Its a great way to go if done properly. Just do your homework & I feel that you won't regret it.

Now with that said, if I'd had somebody like the person in the picture to go up and do my dirty work, well then hey....go for it!

 

[Rick D]

Both

My first cabin boat was a Thunderbird 26'. It had mast mounted winches. I added jam cleats so I could use the winch for different halyards. I singlehanded the boat for a dozen years with no lifelines, no A/P and no electronics except a S/S AM radio. When I got married, my wife got nervous handling the tiller when I was forward, so I purchased a couple of winches and cleats and mounted them on the cabin top. I also added single line reefing. It made a big difference in her comfort level and it motivated me to reef a lot earlier than I used too; a good thing. My next two boats were a Columbia 28 and an O'Day 27. Both those boats had mast mounted halyard winches, and I left them like that except for adding jam cleats. my next two boats, a Hunter Vision and Hunter Legend had lines led aft. The downside of lines led aft are that, mess aside, the lines don't always run free, so if you are on the foredeck, you have to holler at someone to fix the jam or go back and do it yourself. There is also no way to tie off a halyard at the mast. In general, I find it more convenient having the lines in the cockpit, but if they were not, I'd give some thought before I'd do so.

 

[soggysocks]

Great value for the time and money...

I don't know of anyone that sails regularly and came to the conclusion that leading all the lines aft was not worth the time and money.

Leading all the lines aft is the first thing I do when I purchase a boat after all the required maintenance issues are resolved. I'm not a racer so the first four things that I do are lead all lines aft , purchase some Bottom-Siders for the entire cockpit, one QuickStep for boarding and install a roller-furler. I consider all of them a safety issue and particularly well suited to me as I love to single hand "my" boats.

I sail in the SF Bay area and offshore - staying in the cockpit is the safest place to be in high winds and heavy seas.

On a day sail - many of my "crew" are busy talking and laying all over the deck. Simple adjustments from the cockpit make waking up my crew and / or walking over them unnecessary.

The vast majority of the time spent on leading the lines aft is in coming up with the layout and just exactly what to purchase - the installation is generally pretty quick and easy - like one or two days at the most.

Once you've done it a few times, its kind of like buying fenders - size, location and configuration are obvious.

David Doyle
Boats I captain regularly:
Beneteau 43, Cal 36, Gulfstar 37, Catalina 30.
Doyle Marine
Alameda, California

 

[sandpiper10471]

Sounds like some people are running up on deck a couple of times at least just to hoist sails when they have their lines run to the cockpit anyway. So for some, what is the point? Self-steering has made hoisting and dropping sails much easier. On small boats (less than about 27 ft.) I prefer to have my lines led aft, especially if I am only dealing with one deep reef in the main. Then sail can be shortened very quickly and remember, small sails tend to be easier to handle and small boats are more lively in a seaway with less room for the crew to maneuver on deck.

On my former 33 ft., I ran all lines aft after several seasons. I found I was still going to the mast regularly to hoist as something always messed up - stuck sail slide, jackline caught on the unused reefing hooks etc. Then back to the cockpit to continue hoisting. Dropping the main was more efficient at the stick because only then could I properly pull the whole sail down quickly. However, invariably a twist of halliard would get caught in the line clutch by the cockpit, necessitating another trip back to the cockpit, then back up on deck, with a flapping sail, a swinging boom, and battens flying from the leach.

From my experiences with many boats from 22 ft. to 65 ft., I find simplicity is the best. If you have a solid, stable boat with reasonable motion in a seaway, keep everything at the mast. You have to go on deck anyway to do the sail ties.

 

[shoreline]

Things I have found with line led aft 1. line stretch multiplies with length 2. clutter of lines in the cockpit, as if sheets and main aren't enough, 3. as long as they don't get snagged its great, but usually end up going forward anyway! In rough conditions, I use a harness and have more things to do than just adjust a line )

 

[Hermit Scott]

At first I hated it that everyone had a different opinion on topics. I wished that someone would just give me the right answer and be done with it.
Now, I appriciate all the choices and styles that everyone brings to the table. You really have to do your homework and then maybe still have to try a few different things to find out what is best for you.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Sounds like some people are running up on deck a couple of times at least just to hoist sails when they have their lines run to the cockpit anyway. So for some, what is the point?

Good point. Answer: dropping the main.

 

[Roger Long]

I wished that someone would just give me the right answer and be done with it.

Would someone please give Scott the right answer? Anyone can do it. It's always the same answer: Just do it exactly my way.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Oh, NO, Wrong Answer

Would someone please give Scott the right answer? Anyone can do it. It's always the same answer: Just do it exactly my way.

\The correct answer is:

Your boat, your choice, we have absolutely NO IDEA!

 

[Capn Bill]

I am also slowly accumulating what I will need to lead essential lines back to the cockpit. I was able to buy a couple of winches on-line for $45 each and have ordered the halyards with enough extra length to run them back. The organizers & clutches will be next. Will it be worth all the extra work? I don't know. I guess it'll be worth it the first time I get knocked overboard trying to raise the main in a 6-foot sea! Bill on STARGAZER

 

[kenn]

On our little boat, without lifelines or granny bars at the mast, it's a touch riskier to go forward in some situations. Also, lacking autopilot, it's more difficult for me to stay away from the tiller for more than a few seconds, when singlehanding. So for the 2009 season I ran our main and jib halyards aft to the cockpit. I also converted the main from luff rope to slugs.

The main halyard is now delightful; we can raise and lower easily from the cockpit, or worst-case standing on the table with the companionway hatch open. The jib, not much difference... because once that's up and tight, we never touch it, except when changing sails. So for this year we will probably keep the jib halyard on the mast, and use the fairlead and clutch for something else, like topping lift.

 

[Roger Long]

The main halyard is now delightful; we can raise and lower easily from the cockpit,

Looks like it's 9 and 0 for lines lead aft. Seamanship, standards, decency, civility, it's all going by the board Why, people even have mains that roll up inside the mast of boom now.

Where will it ever end?

 

[Rob19574]

I have an older Catalina 30 and everything was on the mast. I decided to run everything back to the cockpit and it turned out to be a much bigger job that I originally anticipated. The reason I decided to move everything back was that I mainly single-hand most times out. My wife enjoys sailing but does not go on deck to engage much (not complaining because she is out there with us) and my kids are too young. I find that I am still running up to the mast to help the sail either up or down or to untangle something. My cockpit usually has someone lounging where I need to be to work the halyard winches and so-forth. I have an auto pilot so going on deck was never that difficult. I don't entirely regret my decision but the benefits are not exactly what I though to get. The majority of our sailing consist of family day-sails and an occasional overnight-er so nothing too extreme.

So the question back to you is really what type of sailing do you do and what is the main driver to wanting to move everything back? Do you have an auto pilot?

- Rob

 

[Ross]

I guess than I don't have enough strings to pull. I take to covers off the sails lead the jib sheets port and starboard, remove the mainsail gaskets. All of that requires someone on deck. Next I stand at the mast and hoist the jib and the main and coil the lines. I guess I could lead those back to the cockpit. When I strike my sails I like to be on deck to push folds left and right on the mainsail, so I guess someone would need to be on deck for that. For me leading all of the lines to the cockpit just wouldn't be much of a gain.

 

[Ron20324]

... Seamanship, standards, decency, civility, it's all going by the board Why, people even have mains that roll up inside the mast or boom now.

Where will it ever end?

Right, Roger. Geeze... where will it end- boats without any sails at all?

Whatever lines were not in the cockpit when I bought my B323, I led back. This makes it alot easier to direct the newcomers to haul and slack whatever lines need it.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Yes, I have lead everything to the cockpit and ended up moving some line back to the mast.

My personal preferences:
Sail trim lines lead to cockpit:
Jib Halyard
Jib sheets
Genoa car lead adjusters
Outhaul
Boom vang
Cunningham
Port & Starboard Spinnaker halyards
Spinnaker pole down haul/tack lines P&S
Spinnaker pole lift
Spinnaker sheets
Spinnaker tweekers

Lines at mast:
Main halyard
Reef lines
Staysail halyard

The boat has no topping lift on the boom, it is a near useless bit of kit IMO. A boomkicker holds the boom up whilst hoisting the main and while reefing. The main halyard serves as the topping lift at the dock. I haven't had a topping lift on a sailboat for almost 20 years.

The boat was converted to roller furling because Wench was concerned about me being out of the cockpit for sail changes etc. The roller furling is off the boat and I've returned to hanks. I could not stand the compromised sail shapes and limited trim adjustment with a furler. IMO this is also a seamanship issue as well as a comfort and boat speed issue. When the wind is up and you "reef" the head sail at some point the ability to sail upwind goes to near zero. In heavy air, or in gale conditions, where can you set a storm sail? I added an inner head stay for the working jib and storm jib, in "offshore" configuration this required that the Genoa must be furled on each tack. The extra weight aloft of a furler and a sail with a Sunbrella cover sewn as UV protection makes the boat pitch more than it should. The boat sails better with hanked on sails. The boat goes up hill quite nicely with a 100% blade jib and two reefs in the main in 30 knots of breeze. Changing down from the Genoa happens *before* reefing the main. Changing to the jib in 14-16 knots of breeze is no hassle at all with a hanked on sail. If the forecast is for really heavy air, the storm jib comes up on deck and gets hanked on ready to go at the same time. The storm trysail lives in its bag at the base of the mast on a second sail track.

I race the boat both single-handed and crewed. I can reach all the sail trim adjustments from the tiller when single or short handed. Yet the lines are set up to when crewed no one gets in each others way during sail changes and spinnaker sets and douses.

When I have guests aboard that tend to lounge in way of sail controls, I find it simple to get them involved in sailing a bit by letting them know what needs to be changed and in what order. They turn from useless lump passengers to novice sailors. When we are daysailing, nothing has to happen quickly if I'm doing my job right. There should be no panic and no surprises.

This set up came from the idea that adjustments that are easy to make, get made. Adjustments that are difficult don't get made.

Modern boats that have no decent working deck and sailing schools that allow people to think that out of the cockpit = unsafe have lowered the seamanship standard IMO. By the time it gets to be a safety concern, you already have the small headsail up and the main reefed. If you are not used to working on deck it does become a scary place when it is time for jacklines and harnesses. If working on deck is part of the normal routine you get to enjoy more than the 8-10 feet of boat that is the cockpit. Why decide that 33% of your boat is no man's land?

I also have a 42' power boat. Except for dock lines I can do everything from the helm, including anchoring. When I am no longer able to work the deck of my sailboat, I'll shed a tear and retire from sailing.

Just my opinion. As others have said, do what makes you enjoy sailing your boat more. There is no right answer. As a hint, look at the boats in your marina and see what the people that use their boats more than once a year do. Advice from dock queens is questionable data.

Randy