Ahoy There! Das Boat ;)

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Paul H

.
Nov 2, 2005
91
- - Ohio
Seadance...just for comparisons sake...

I will share the purchasing experience that I had when I bought my '79 lancer 28... My wife and I fell in love with her as soon as we saw her...sure, she's getting on in years (the boat, not my wife ;-)). when we made the trip to view her, the broker had EVERYTHING on his desk for us to look at...maintenance records, every survey that was ever done, and the like. The owner was not there...but he went so far as to leave a note with the broker, sealed and addressed to us. In it was everything that he figured would need closer inspection by the surveyor...I thought that this was quite a noble thing to do!! When we asked to go look at her...the broker gave us the keys, and said she's in slip E56...take all the time you need, and then handed us a cell phone and told us to call him if we needed him to come and go over anything. So with previous surveys in hand...off we went to the boat. We must have spent 3-4 hours aboard; lifting cushions, opening lockers, checking plumbing.etc...needless to say, we literally ripped the boat apart without him looking over our shoulders. When we finally called him to come down...he got there and bascially did the same thing we did...with us; and pointing out a few things that we missed. Then took us for a sea trial...which went fantastic!! We went back to the hotel, and mulled it over, and decided to make an offer subject to survey. Once the offer was made and accpeted...the boat was hauled, the very same day. We called the surveyor, and he came down the next day. he was very friendly and offered that we go with him to do the survey...he had even asked me if I would like to take pictures for his file (and mine). I figured that the survey would take a few hours...lo and behold...6:00PM came, and he turns to my wife and I and says..."see you here tomorrow morning, 8:00 AM?" I couldn't believe it!! he came back the next day, and worked for about another 6 hours on the survey... Now, I don't know about most surveyors...but this guy had certificates for everything, marine diesels, rigging, naval architect...the whole gambit. While I think that I had a very pleasureable buying experience...I feel that I have now been spoiled, and I wouldn't accept any less from future purchases. The broker and surveyor set the bar extrmemly high for me. I would like to think that all of our (collectively) sailboat purchases should have a lot in common with the one that I had...realistically, they won't...but sellers should have nothing to hide... I just thought that I would share that with you.
 

Paul H

.
Nov 2, 2005
91
- - Ohio
Seadance...just for comparisons sake...

I will share the purchasing experience that I had when I bought my '79 lancer 28... My wife and I fell in love with her as soon as we saw her...sure, she's getting on in years (the boat, not my wife ;-)). when we made the trip to view her, the broker had EVERYTHING on his desk for us to look at...maintenance records, every survey that was ever done, and the like. The owner was not there...but he went so far as to leave a note with the broker, sealed and addressed to us. In it was everything that he figured would need closer inspection by the surveyor...I thought that this was quite a noble thing to do!! When we asked to go look at her...the broker gave us the keys, and said she's in slip E56...take all the time you need, and then handed us a cell phone and told us to call him if we needed him to come and go over anything. So with previous surveys in hand...off we went to the boat. We must have spent 3-4 hours aboard; lifting cushions, opening lockers, checking plumbing.etc...needless to say, we literally ripped the boat apart without him looking over our shoulders. When we finally called him to come down...he got there and bascially did the same thing we did...with us; and pointing out a few things that we missed. Then took us for a sea trial...which went fantastic!! We went back to the hotel, and mulled it over, and decided to make an offer subject to survey. Once the offer was made and accpeted...the boat was hauled, the very same day. We called the surveyor, and he came down the next day. he was very friendly and offered that we go with him to do the survey...he had even asked me if I would like to take pictures for his file (and mine). I figured that the survey would take a few hours...lo and behold...6:00PM came, and he turns to my wife and I and says..."see you here tomorrow morning, 8:00 AM?" I couldn't believe it!! he came back the next day, and worked for about another 6 hours on the survey... Now, I don't know about most surveyors...but this guy had certificates for everything, marine diesels, rigging, naval architect...the whole gambit. While I think that I had a very pleasureable buying experience...I feel that I have now been spoiled, and I wouldn't accept any less from future purchases. The broker and surveyor set the bar extrmemly high for me. I would like to think that all of our (collectively) sailboat purchases should have a lot in common with the one that I had...realistically, they won't...but sellers should have nothing to hide... I just thought that I would share that with you.
 
T

Tom S

That is the wrong use of "thermocouple"

I'm sorry, but the completely incorrect use of these terms are driving me crazy *cry (I'm a EE so you'll understand ;) ) I hate to "pick nits" but its a very long stretch to describe what two disimilar metals in contact do to each other and calling it "thermal couple". A thermocouple is a "device" (noun) used to measure temperature, not the "effect" (adverb) that happens when two disimilar metals interact with each other. (That is Galvanic Corrosion) Now if one was measuring the electron flow/Voltage and charting that vs temperature then you could consider it a thermocouple. A few other points I should mention and its more for information than anything else. There is a REAL and definitive difference between "Galvanic Corrosion" and "Electrolytic Corrosion". Many people mix the two up or use them interchangeably. Then there is the term "Electrolysis" which completely different than what we have happening on the metals of our boats "Galvanic Corrosion" is caused by an electric current generated by two different metals in a conducting medium such as seawater. When we talk about galvanic corrosion we're talking about an electric exchange. (think Aluminum and Stainless Steel) "Electrolytic Corrosion" is caused by a current from an external source, often the boat's battery or shore supply. The current that causes electrolytic action is called "stray current" and usually emanates from a poorly installed electrical circuit or a bad earthing (ground) arrangement http://www.boatsurveyor.com/corrosion.htm Ok that is probably more than you need to know but it is the correct information. I feel better now :) BTW - The prop that Seadance shows that is severely corroded could have happened to a boat that is meticulously maintained. Just showing me a prop like that doesn't mean that the owner wasn't taking care of the boat. I have seen props virtually vanish is a matter of weeks in a marina where a neighboring boat had the neutral and grounds reversed on board and resulting path found its way up through the correctly grounded neighboring boat.
 
T

Tom S

That is the wrong use of "thermocouple"

I'm sorry, but the completely incorrect use of these terms are driving me crazy *cry (I'm a EE so you'll understand ;) ) I hate to "pick nits" but its a very long stretch to describe what two disimilar metals in contact do to each other and calling it "thermal couple". A thermocouple is a "device" (noun) used to measure temperature, not the "effect" (adverb) that happens when two disimilar metals interact with each other. (That is Galvanic Corrosion) Now if one was measuring the electron flow/Voltage and charting that vs temperature then you could consider it a thermocouple. A few other points I should mention and its more for information than anything else. There is a REAL and definitive difference between "Galvanic Corrosion" and "Electrolytic Corrosion". Many people mix the two up or use them interchangeably. Then there is the term "Electrolysis" which completely different than what we have happening on the metals of our boats "Galvanic Corrosion" is caused by an electric current generated by two different metals in a conducting medium such as seawater. When we talk about galvanic corrosion we're talking about an electric exchange. (think Aluminum and Stainless Steel) "Electrolytic Corrosion" is caused by a current from an external source, often the boat's battery or shore supply. The current that causes electrolytic action is called "stray current" and usually emanates from a poorly installed electrical circuit or a bad earthing (ground) arrangement http://www.boatsurveyor.com/corrosion.htm Ok that is probably more than you need to know but it is the correct information. I feel better now :) BTW - The prop that Seadance shows that is severely corroded could have happened to a boat that is meticulously maintained. Just showing me a prop like that doesn't mean that the owner wasn't taking care of the boat. I have seen props virtually vanish is a matter of weeks in a marina where a neighboring boat had the neutral and grounds reversed on board and resulting path found its way up through the correctly grounded neighboring boat.
 

Paul H

.
Nov 2, 2005
91
- - Ohio
Tom S...I would love to have this discussion with

you in regards to the differences chemically!! I read the link you provided, and it, too, is not completely correct...and with you being an Electrical Engineer, and me being a Chemist...it should be good.... It doesn't belong in this forum though....;-).
 

Paul H

.
Nov 2, 2005
91
- - Ohio
Tom S...I would love to have this discussion with

you in regards to the differences chemically!! I read the link you provided, and it, too, is not completely correct...and with you being an Electrical Engineer, and me being a Chemist...it should be good.... It doesn't belong in this forum though....;-).
 
T

Tom S

Paul, agreed.

The article was written in "laymans" terms but it does try and explain that there are differences between the terms "Electrolysis" "Galvanic Corrosion" and "Electrolytic Corrosion". Many people incorrectly use the 'catch-all' phrase of "Electrolysis" to describe every metal-chemical reaction that happens on the boat. At the end of the day its still creates "metal rot" but knowing exactly where it comes from can help eliminate it.
 
T

Tom S

Paul, agreed.

The article was written in "laymans" terms but it does try and explain that there are differences between the terms "Electrolysis" "Galvanic Corrosion" and "Electrolytic Corrosion". Many people incorrectly use the 'catch-all' phrase of "Electrolysis" to describe every metal-chemical reaction that happens on the boat. At the end of the day its still creates "metal rot" but knowing exactly where it comes from can help eliminate it.
 

Paul H

.
Nov 2, 2005
91
- - Ohio
True Tom...

There is a sweeping generalization in using the term electrolysis... I, too, was irked at the term "thermal couple"...and Waffle's mis-interpretation of it...I'm a bit of a "stickler" as well...that's all. :)
 

Paul H

.
Nov 2, 2005
91
- - Ohio
True Tom...

There is a sweeping generalization in using the term electrolysis... I, too, was irked at the term "thermal couple"...and Waffle's mis-interpretation of it...I'm a bit of a "stickler" as well...that's all. :)
 
S

seadance

W A F F L E

you said,"I don't think SEADANCE has the time to work on this boat to get it back in shape. Her and her husband work and raise kids." Waffle, I have written several drafts in response to your commentary and I went back and deleted it. I have two sides to me. There's the kind, giving, sweet woman and then there's that horrible mean streak I have that could make the Pope cry.I am staying tight lipped. I will say this...hubby has a great job and will have plenty of time to work on her. I am a stay at home mom and my kids get out of school tomorrow and we will be there everyday as soon as the sun comes up and will go home when the sun sets. The marina is only 15 minutes drive from my house. "The three blade is used and should be reconditioned before it is put in service. I got mine done it cost $170. The PO must of hit something and one of the blades was off." Waffle it was always a 2 blade prop.We asked for the 3.
 
S

seadance

W A F F L E

you said,"I don't think SEADANCE has the time to work on this boat to get it back in shape. Her and her husband work and raise kids." Waffle, I have written several drafts in response to your commentary and I went back and deleted it. I have two sides to me. There's the kind, giving, sweet woman and then there's that horrible mean streak I have that could make the Pope cry.I am staying tight lipped. I will say this...hubby has a great job and will have plenty of time to work on her. I am a stay at home mom and my kids get out of school tomorrow and we will be there everyday as soon as the sun comes up and will go home when the sun sets. The marina is only 15 minutes drive from my house. "The three blade is used and should be reconditioned before it is put in service. I got mine done it cost $170. The PO must of hit something and one of the blades was off." Waffle it was always a 2 blade prop.We asked for the 3.
 
S

SEADANCE

BTW

I would like to say that I have always asked that you give me the good and the bad about anything that I was looking at or into. Thank you.
 
S

SEADANCE

BTW

I would like to say that I have always asked that you give me the good and the bad about anything that I was looking at or into. Thank you.
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
We have seen here several examples of people

who received a university education sometime in the distant past and have neglected it to the point that at present it is nearly worthless.
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
We have seen here several examples of people

who received a university education sometime in the distant past and have neglected it to the point that at present it is nearly worthless.
 
Jun 12, 2004
1,181
Allied Mistress 39 Ketch Kemah,Tx.
Let us not......

Let us not overwhelm the young lady with too much negativity. I think the idea of a surveyor has been beat to death. She should have enough input but now to make a decision. Sometimes, in our quest to be helpful and drive a point home, we tend to get too attimate in our point of view. I for one am guilty of that way too often. This only leads to stress and animosity, lets all just wish her the best of luck in whatever she decides and answer any questions she may have about specific items. Just my 2 cents worth. Tony B
 
Jun 12, 2004
1,181
Allied Mistress 39 Ketch Kemah,Tx.
Let us not......

Let us not overwhelm the young lady with too much negativity. I think the idea of a surveyor has been beat to death. She should have enough input but now to make a decision. Sometimes, in our quest to be helpful and drive a point home, we tend to get too attimate in our point of view. I for one am guilty of that way too often. This only leads to stress and animosity, lets all just wish her the best of luck in whatever she decides and answer any questions she may have about specific items. Just my 2 cents worth. Tony B
 
T

Tom S

Ross, was that directed at me?

I am not sure if you are saying the information I am providing is not correct. I try hard to give complete and accurate answers with supporting data. Either way, you don't need to be a EE to understand and use proper terminology.
 
T

Tom S

Ross, was that directed at me?

I am not sure if you are saying the information I am providing is not correct. I try hard to give complete and accurate answers with supporting data. Either way, you don't need to be a EE to understand and use proper terminology.
 
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