After tacking boat slows

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B

Bob

It's OK, Larry...

anyone from Deltaville can call me a smart ass without repercussion - I LOVE that place. (And spent one memorable May evening pinballing from one mudbank to another coming in the main channel.) But the guy DID say wind SPEED changed on the new tack. I'm aware of apparent wind and velocity headers/lifts, but I've never heard of the wind changing speed every time a boat tacked. Still don't understand that part...
 
Seattle Scott

Seattle Scott

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May 6, 2004
916
Hunter 37C Seattle
Bob, situation was just an example

where wind velocity changed after a tack, not because of a tack. But it could be read as reciting that wind speed changed after every tack, which I don't think was the situation being offered. But its not a good example, because if wind drops after a tack boat will go slower (assuming not at hull speed already)on new tack after being perfectly trimmed and in most situations, is wind picks up after a tack, boat will be faster on new tack even if still trimmed for old lighter air tack. I think what Don is teaching ( and I am learning), is that there is a lot of jib trimming options/considerations with changing wind speed, even though you might be thinking "Hey, same point of sail" just leave it be."
 
Don Guillette

Don Guillette

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May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Wind speed

Scott/Bob: The wind speed and direction is never constant - least where I sail on the west coast. The problem my Aussie friend was having was he was being headed and the wind speed was dropping. When he tacked, had he watched the break of the sail he would have known his fairlead setting was off and he should have made the appropriate adjustment on the other side. He didn't and the boat slowed down MORE than it normally would have if his fairlead was set correctly. He was not getting the most out of the wind. Scott, we are on the same page. You can not "set it and forget it". Actually, one could and call it sailing as the boat will move through the water but your boat likes you more when you adjust her for the conditions and she can move effortless through the water. Its like giving a horse his head and letting him run at his maximum speed.
 
B

biorapper

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Jun 16, 2004
203
- - -
Yes, Don, they are fixed farileads

and the size is 26s. I've read on here that the smaller boat size makes movable fairleads less neccessary...though I'm not sure why.
 
Don Guillette

Don Guillette

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May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Fixed fairleads

Richard: It has to do with the size of the jib. On the smaller boats the jib that the boat buider normally provides is not that big so you could move the fairleads all day long and not see much effect. When your boat is in the 26' 27' range your getting into the begining range where the ability to move the fairleads becomes necessary, if your interested in increasing performance. Additionally, if you install a bigger sail (135 - 150) on your boat you would need an adjustable system. It is a simple matter to install the tracks.
 
B

Bob16841

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Jan 12, 2006
48
Catalina 25 All Over, USA
Agreed, Alan

This is my last post on this topic, don't want to beat a dead horse...OK, flawed was poor choice of words...incorrect is better. You said "the reason for the tack in the first place, is the fact that the 'wind has changed'." Bottom line is that the above statement is incorrect, that is not the reason most people tack.
 
Alan

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
Now 'I' don't understand

On a beat, not yet having passed the layline, and with no 'obstructions' in your path, What other considerations are there other than wind changes to decide whether or not to tack?....Please, somebody, anybody fill me in.
 
Alan

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
Now 'I' don't understand

On a beat, not yet having passed the layline, and with no 'obstructions' in your path, What other considerations are there other than wind changes to decide whether or not to tack?....Please, somebody, anybody fill me in.
 
B

Bob

How about

Covering another boat, staying with the lead pack, or you might have seen that boats up ahead are being lifted. If so, you can climb the ladder a little early and be first to that shift, then tack back.
 
B

Bob

How about

Covering another boat, staying with the lead pack, or you might have seen that boats up ahead are being lifted. If so, you can climb the ladder a little early and be first to that shift, then tack back.
 
Alan

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
Bob 'V'

I agree, and that is why I specified in my original post(#7) "Usually...the reason for the tack in the first place, is the fact that the 'wind has changed'" Your first two points are valid with a caviat. Covering another boat with both tacks being near equal, is fine. I would not continue to cover with a 10* knock. Also tacking with an upcoming lift would of course be wrong, but again we are talking about a "change in the wind" In my post(#27) I stated "any time the wind shifts it's time to make a descision on whether or not to tack." An upcoming lift cetainly is a good reason to remain on your current tack, but here again we are talking "change in the wind". All this brings me back to my original point, tacking usually needs to be considered with a change in the wind (barring obstructions).
 
B

Bob

I won't argue, Alan...

with most of what you say, but for the sake of discussion, say I'm on starboard tack on the left side of the course and see boats some distance ahead, also on starboard, being lifted, I'm going to tack across until I hit that lift, then come back on starboard. I'll be ahead of where I would have been if I'd just remained on the same tack the whole time, waiting for the lift. My point, I guess, is that sometimes you react to wind changes that haven't reached you (or you haven't reached) yet, but that is primarily in racing scenarios. But I think this is outside the scope of the original post.
 
D

Didereaux

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Dec 5, 2004
121
- - San Leon, TX
maybe I missed something...but

Up front I'll admit that maybe I am missing something in all this, BUT....! I can't find in any of the posts the most logical and common problem for one tack being slower than the other...namely wave direction. Waves almost never run dirctly in front of the wind, in dfact usually 20-30° to one side: therefor if your tacks are the same degree off hte wind your bow will be harder onto the wave fronts on one or the other tacks, slowing you down on that tack unless you fall off. ;( didereaux
 
W

Wayne

Headsail Leech flutter

Don I have had trouble setting my headsail ever since I purchased my 2001 C380 . The problem is when the wind gets over 15knots the leech begins to flutter ( luff ) I have tried everything from more pressure to moving the fairleads up and down but she still flaps. I have run out of ideas except buy a new sail. The sail is 5 years old and Im thinking there may be some wear and tear.
 
Don Guillette

Don Guillette

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May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Leech Flutter

Wayne: Does your jib have a leech line? A leech line or leech cord is a small piece of line sewed into the hem of the leech. I'm sure some sails are made without them but I've never seen one. Yours is probably very loose and what you want to do is tighten it just enough to stop the leech from fluttering. You did not mention the mainsail fluttering but I want to add that the leech line on the the main is a pretty trick little control most sailors don't bother with. They just use it to stop the flutter in the main. When reaching or running they could use it to bend the battens which gives the mainsail more shape. By tightening the leech cord they can prevent the top batten from twisting off. The more the top of the sail twist off the more the power spills off. What is actually happening is the leech cord is holding the top batten in line with the boom. The next time your out sailing try messing with the main leech cord when your reaching or running and see if it works for you.
 
A

Alan

Bob 'V'

Absolutely, you make an excellent point and as you say, this is a discussion-no argument. And my original assertion was that most tacks are based on a wind change. Seeing a lift coming and double tacking to take advantage of it certainly falls within that statement. Don, you are so right about the leech line. I had the sail maker put mine in in reverse and over the headboard just so I could adjust the leech on a run or reach. With the boom out over the water, it's impossible to get to it in the conventional location. Bringing it back to the gooseneck makes for easy adjustments.
 
W

Wayne

Leech Flutter

Thanks Don Yes I have adjusted the leech line to such a degree there is a small amount of curve along the leech. I rang a sail maker and he said to make sure I have the headsail fully up to such a degree you can see small wrinkles running up the luff of the sail. My mainsail fine and I am aware of the leech line adjustment, I never have any problems with the Main except sometimes it drops a little, thats a simple fix. I will be going out tomorrow so I will try a few things. Thanks again. Wayne
 
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