Advice before I buy C30

Hayden Watson · Jun 1, 2023

The smile may or may not be a problem. The main issue of concern is whether the plywood in the keel stub has gotten wet and rotted or not. The first check is to see if the washers under the keel bolts are flat or cupped. If they are cupped, the plywood is most likely swelling and will need to be removed and replaced.

dmax · Jun 2, 2023

Catalina stopped putting plywood in the keel shoe during the 1988 production year so it's possible this boat doesn't have it. Often when the plywood gets soaked, you will see brown stains on the keel, which I'm not seeing. That looks like a typical Catalina smile, which can be ground out and filled (3M 5200 is a good choice) - after re-torquing the keel bolts first. Concerning the mast, Catalina used a wood block (oak) at the base to support it - most likely this has rotted, there's lots of info out there on how to replace it.

Justin_NSA · Jun 2, 2023

I'd be more concerned about the mast compression. From what I think I know based on posts here, the cabin compression post may be sitting on rotten wood. If that's true, it will continue to compress, deck may crack, standing rigging will slacken. All can be fixed. Consider the cost in the price.

Hayden Watson · Jun 2, 2023

dmax said:
Catalina stopped putting plywood in the keel shoe during the 1988 production year so it's possible this boat doesn't have it. Often when the plywood gets soaked, you will see brown stains on the keel, which I'm not seeing. That looks like a typical Catalina smile, which can be ground out and filled (3M 5200 is a good choice) - after re-torquing the keel bolts first. Concerning the mast, Catalina used a wood block (oak) at the base to support it - most likely this has rotted, there's lots of info out there on how to replace it.

The boat he is looking at is an 83 Mk1 so it definitely has plywood in the stub. My 88 still has the plywood and I make sure that the glass on top is always sealed and it has never been a problem. Most often, the brown water drainging out of the smile is the final symptom of major rotting and the plywood can be wet and rotting long before that sign shows up. The water intrution is usually from the inside of the bilge and not from seawater. It is caused by improperly sealed penetrations to mount bilge pumps and other stuff to the bottom of the stub.
It is always a good idea to check both the plywood fill in the bottom of the stub and the compression block. FYI, not all compression blocks are made from oak. I know of two boats that the compression block was made from plywood also. One had it made from a horizontal stack of plywood and the other had a vertical stack of plywood.
Both of these guys did the repair themselves for under $1000 in materials.

Hayden Watson · Jun 2, 2023

Justin_NSA said:
I'd be more concerned about the mast compression. From what I think I know based on posts here, the cabin compression post may be sitting on rotten wood. If that's true, it will continue to compress, deck may crack, standing rigging will slacken. All can be fixed. Consider the cost in the price.

These are two seperate issues. The keel stub affects the keel attachment and will make the smile much worse. The compression block affects the mast and will also cause interior problems with the bulkheads and doors as well as cracking the head liner. Many boaters choose to do both at the same time if there is a problem with one.

Justin_NSA · Jun 2, 2023

Hayden Watson said:
These are two seperate issues.

correct. I was saying the deck/mast issue looks more serious than the "smile"

Hayden Watson · Jun 2, 2023

Justin_NSA said:
correct. I was saying the deck/mast issue looks more serious than the "smile"

If the smile is just due to flexing of the hull and not rotting of the plywood core, you are correct. Once the plywood core rots out, it becomes the much more important problems because it will cause instability of keel and increasingly sever leaking through the keel bolts which if left untreated could sink the boat.
This is not to disparage anyone from purchasing a C30. Most of the 6000+ hulls have not had either of these problems, but it is something to be aware of. And it can be repaired by the average person with reasonable DIY skills for about $1000.
I have owned my C30 for 24-years and have always been happy with her strength and performance.

RitSim · Jun 2, 2023

I had an '89 C30 and tackled the mast support. The support is just behind the forward bilge wall. My mast was down at the time. Others here have pointed out that the deck rot could also be part of the issue. The mast support took one day to clean out and one day to rebuild. I have seen suggestions to replace the mast support with epoxy coated wood- I would NEVER do that. There are various steel jacking screw devices that have been used. These are certainly the most versatile because of the adjustment. I chose to build my step with Trex and long fiber polyester mix between the Trex boards. There has been some negative comments about this approach but I wanted a support that was non-water absorbing. The compressive strength is more than adequate. One of the tell-tale signs is observing the head door margins. If the mast support is degrading the margins will become smaller. If they all look good, then maybe do more investigation on the mast deck compression. This is a way bigger job. If the deck is an issue, you could consider working from the inside to avoid having to match the non-skid. The compression post is easily removed by jacking the cabin roof. Maybe a test drill hole from inside. I did have or tackle the "smile" but I did read about it and it involves digging the plywood out from the inside of the bilge and rebuilding. Try looking on one of the C30 group sites.

If you don't do the work yourself, the mast step is easily $2k by the yard. The deck issue is possibly a little more and the smile is more than that.

kappykaplan · Jun 3, 2023

G4rs said:
Is that a concern where they embed into the cast metal of the keel?

No.

Hayden Watson · Jun 3, 2023

G4rs said:
Thank you all for your guidance. Im on the fence about this purchase now. Am I ready to take on this project now and I already have a lot to do on my C27 before I sell her. Maybe i counter a little lower to plan for these repair costs.
What I am curious about is the keel bolts were shinny, like they were stainless. Is that a concern where they embed into the cast metal of the keel? Could there be corrosion inside there causing the smile?

That is not a problem and the earlier boats had mild steel bolts which would rust away to almost nothing.

jssailem · Jun 6, 2023

Paralysis by analysis...
No boat purchase will be perfect. If you believe you know the boat's condition, you feel you have the ability to work out any problems, then it maybe time to follow the Nike slogan... Just Do It!

By all means evaluate the boat's value to you, and make your offer accordingly. Then step back and see if the owner agrees with you.

Ward H · Jun 6, 2023

While you'll pay a little more look for a 89 or newer C30 try looking for one to avoid the plywood in the keel stub and eliminate the worry.
As @dmax posted, Catalina stopped using plywood in the keel stubs in 88 so 89 and newer won't have that problem. You'll also get a better engine. The early Universals (M25s I believe) had a poorly designed alternator bracket that when it failed destroyed the timing gear cover, which are no longer available. There is a fix to avoid it but the M25XP already has the fix.

I agree with @Hayden Watson , you may not have a problem from what I see. You could just grind out the old filler and fill with G Flex epoxy and fair.

Hayden Watson · Jun 6, 2023

Ward H said:
While you'll pay a little more look for a 89 or newer C30 try looking for one to avoid the plywood in the keel stub and eliminate the worry.
As @dmax posted, Catalina stopped using plywood in the keel stubs in 88 so 89 and newer won't have that problem. You'll also get a better engine. The early Universals (M25s I believe) had a poorly designed alternator bracket that when it failed destroyed the timing gear cover, which are no longer available. There is a fix to avoid it but the M25XP already has the fix.

I agree with @Hayden Watson , you may not have a problem from what I see. You could just grind out the old filler and fill with G Flex epoxy and fair.

Note that not all 88's are plywood free. My 88 hull #5134 has a plywood core in the stub.

Ward H · Jun 6, 2023

Hayden Watson said:
Note that not all 88's are plywood free. My 88 hull #5134 has a plywood core in the stub.

Yes, Important to note. I went one step further and looked for 90 or newer as the 90's were made in the newer Florida factory, not in California. I was told the employees in the California factory knew their jobs were going away so didn't care about quality. The Florida employees were a new workforce eager to show what they could do. Maybe just BS but what I was told by a buddy who lived near the Florida factory and was good friends with one of the managers/supervisors.

Anyway, a 83 without obvious issues could be a good buy if you can DIY in the winter and be content sailing it in the summer.

jssailem · Jun 9, 2023

Good for you @G4rs . PICTURES PICTURES... Always fun for us.

Advice before I buy C30

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John