Add heat-sink cooling fins to alternator?

Apr 5, 2009
2,819
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
I am looking for ways to increase the cooling for my alternator. Is it an old Ample Power unit which does not have a large amount of openings into the case. On my computer, I have added a bunch of fin type of heat-sinks to the hot bits to allow the cooling fans to remove the excess heat and it seems that the same thing might work on the alternator. Anyone ever tried it or know of a sourse for bendable fin-type heat-sinks that could be mounted to the outside of the case?
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,436
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Have never heard of heat sink fins on the alternator. I have heard of people using computer fans and ducting to increase the air flow over an alternator, which seems to help.
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,773
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I'm sorry, but it seems as though you are trying to re-invent the wheel. To the best of my recollection, I've never had an alternator fail from excessive heat not caused by an electrical fault.
 
Apr 5, 2009
2,819
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
I'm sorry, but it seems as though you are trying to re-invent the wheel. To the best of my recollection, I've never had an alternator fail from excessive heat not caused by an electrical fault.
They fail all of the time due to excess heat, especially when charging a large bank of LFP batteries. In my case, I have a 560Ah LFP battery and I have the output on the 105A hot-rated alternator limited to 50A which means that it will be putting out 50A almost all the time that the engine is running. At that rate, the case temperature stays at about 90ºc or 190ºF. @Maine Sail suggests limiting the case temperature on this alternator to less than 200º. I would like to increase the output but cannot do that until i improve the cooling of the case. I have the bilge blower pulling air directly from the front of the alternator and plan to add a computer fan to blow air onto the back. With this increase in airflow, it seems that increasing the cooling surface area with heat sinks would be helpful in pulling more heat from the case.

(1) How to not blow up your Alternator when charging Lithium - YouTube
 
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Apr 5, 2009
2,819
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
Have never heard of heat sink fins on the alternator. I have heard of people using computer fans and ducting to increase the air flow over an alternator, which seems to help.
I plan to add a blower to the back side but am hoping to increase the cooling surface area. This alternator case has very little in the way of air ports in the back end. I would love to figure a way to put a water-cooling jacket onto the case but that would be too complex and dry fin heatsinks should be easier. I know that I can get small format sinks that have adhesive thermal tape and could stick a bunch of them on, but it would be nice to find something that can be bent to fit the curve of the case.
I am thinking something like this.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,776
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
from excessive heat not caused by an electrical fault. ...
...or an excessive LOAD.

Small case alternators are not designed for full rated capacity for long periods. It's a reality of how they are built and what they were built for. An Ample alternator is surely of high quality but was also designed to be used with their regulators which were decades ahead of the now prevalent Balmars. These regulators are designed to reduce the electrical load on the alternator due to high absorption batteries like AGMs and LiFePo4s. They utilize alternator and battery temp sensors and/or Small Engine Mode. Ample's equipment was way ahead of anything else. Their Ample Power Primer still is one of the best writeups I've ever seen.

The Ample Power Primer http://www.amplepower.com/primer/primer.pdf
Sorry, link is gone, Ample Power unfortunately closed. They were so ahead of their time! [May 2019]
The Ample Power Primer is still available on the Wayback Machine at Wayback Machine
It remains one of the best...
Many thanks to Bill Murdoch

Hayden, I'm sure you know all this. I forget what house bank chemistry you have installed.
 
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Feb 26, 2004
22,776
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
I would like to increase the output but cannot do that until i improve the cooling of the case.
Aha, now we know you have LFPs.
You simply cannot do what you want with the size of your alternator, its type - small case/frame - and your house bank LOAD characteristics.
That's also what Maine Sail's article points out. You have to use an external regulator to reduce the load to reduce the heat.
You ARE trying to reinvent the wheel. Folks on this forum and cruisersforum have discussed this forever. The ONLY way to feed your load hunger is with a large frame bus alternator. Dockhead on CF has proven this, over and over again and he just got tired of repeating himself.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,436
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Modern high output alternators like the Balmar AT 170 have more cooling slots and have fans at the front and back of the alternator. These alternators run cooler than the Balmar Series 6 alternators.

We have the predecessor to the AT170, the XT165. It would put out up to 95 amps at under 100°C. The alternator was charging a small bank (232ah) of Firefly batteries which would limit the time it would run at that output.

As much as your wallet may complain, upgrading your alternator is the best route to higher alternator output.
 
Jan 4, 2006
6,491
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
The biggest problem is the temperature inside your engine compartment. Technically speaking, I'd say hotter than the hinges on the gates of hell.


I have the bilge blower pulling air directly from the front of the alternator
For the alternator you've got, your best approach is going to be to increase the fresh air flow through the engine compartment as much as possible. Larger bilge blower ? Two blowers working in parallel on the same suction hose ?

plan to add a computer fan to blow air onto the back.
I'm afraid this would accomplish little to nothing as it's already like a hurricane inside your engine compartment with the alternator fan and V-belts whipping around. A technical analogy for the computer fan would be "like a fa_t in a wind storm."

At that rate, the case temperature stays at about 90ºc or 190ºF.
Check what the current air temperature is inside the engine compartment. If there's much of a difference between the 190ºF casing and the air temperature, the glued on heat fins would be a good bet. When I was looking at cooling my alternator, I had an initial air temperature of about 150ºF.
 
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Jan 11, 2014
11,436
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The engine compartment should be about the same temperature as the engines operating temperature. The one area where that might not be true would be near the exhaust manifold.
 
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Apr 5, 2009
2,819
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
...or an excessive LOAD.

Small case alternators are not designed for full rated capacity for long periods. It's a reality of how they are built and what they were built for. An Ample alternator is surely of high quality but was also designed to be used with their regulators which were decades ahead of the now prevalent Balmars. These regulators are designed to reduce the electrical load on the alternator due to high absorption batteries like AGMs and LiFePo4s. They utilize alternator and battery temp sensors and/or Small Engine Mode. Ample's equipment was way ahead of anything else. Their Ample Power Primer still is one of the best writeups I've ever seen.

The Ample Power Primer http://www.amplepower.com/primer/primer.pdf
Sorry, link is gone, Ample Power unfortunately closed. They were so ahead of their time! [May 2019]
The Ample Power Primer is still available on the Wayback Machine at Wayback Machine
It remains one of the best...
Many thanks to Bill Murdoch

Hayden, I'm sure you know all this. I forget what house bank chemistry you have installed.
Thanks for the link to the Ample primer. I had downloaded it years ago but lost it. I now have the pdf in my manuals folder. My house bank is a 560Ah LFP bank made from 280Ah EVE cells in a 2p4s configuration. I have my alternator throttled and thermally protected but am looking for ways to cool it better so that I can up the output.
 

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Apr 5, 2009
2,819
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
Aha, now we know you have LFPs.
You simply cannot do what you want with the size of your alternator, its type - small case/frame - and your house bank LOAD characteristics.
That's also what Maine Sail's article points out. You have to use an external regulator to reduce the load to reduce the heat. I already have an external regulator and it throttles the output from 108 down to 50Ah. I also have thermal temperature control that will shut down charging if the case temperature exceeds 90ºC/190ºF which is below the 100ºC that Maine Sail told me was the save max temperature.
You ARE trying to reinvent the wheel. Folks on this forum and cruisersforum have discussed this forever. The ONLY way to feed your load hunger is with a large frame bus alternator. Dockhead on CF has proven this, over and over again and he just got tired of repeating himself. You are correct, I am trying to reinvent the wheel. I am in engineer and half of my enjotyment of my boat is tinkering with the systems. That is why I built my own battery rather than buying one prebuilt. It is why I designed and built my own hydronic heating system that heats the cabin, domestic water and the engine from bits and bobs from many differnect sourse. That is why we designed and made the spinnaker in my avitar.
The system I now have works very well but I know that I can make improvements' which is what I am in the research process of doing.
 
Apr 5, 2009
2,819
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
Modern high output alternators like the Balmar AT 170 have more cooling slots and have fans at the front and back of the alternator. These alternators run cooler than the Balmar Series 6 alternators.

We have the predecessor to the AT170, the XT165. It would put out up to 95 amps at under 100°C. The alternator was charging a small bank (232ah) of Firefly batteries which would limit the time it would run at that output.

As much as your wallet may complain, upgrading your alternator is the best route to higher alternator output.
I realize that buying a new alternator is the easiest way to go but I have never been one to take the easy road. Until this one bites the dust, I am looking for ways to make it work as well as I can make it which not driving it to an early death. When it does bite the dust and go up in smoke, I will probably build my own replacement from selvage cases and build from there.
I know I am the weirdo, but it is the way I am wired. I wanted a new house so I bought a 4-acre tract of land, built a barn that I could live in while I built a house.
 
Apr 5, 2009
2,819
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
The biggest problem is the temperature inside your engine compartment. Technically speaking, I'd say hotter than the hinges on the gates of hell.
This is something that I am looking at improving. I have a 180º thermostat mounted in the M25XP which means that the temperature of the engine space is almost at the max operation temperature of the alternator. I am planning to go back to a 160º T-stat which will lower the base temperature although it is not as efficient for the engine.



For the alternator you've got, your best approach is going to be to increase the fresh air flow through the engine compartment as much as possible. Larger bilge blower ? Two blowers working in parallel on the same suction hose?
The fan that I am using is a high-capacity squirrel cage fan and it helped a lot just by running it continuously.


I'm afraid this would accomplish little to nothing as it's already like a hurricane inside your engine compartment with the alternator fan and V-belts whipping around. A technical analogy for the computer fan would be "like a fa_t in a wind storm."
I do quite agree with this. the only thing in the engine space that move air is the fan on the front of the alternator and here is very little air flow inside. I am going to install a case fan that is blowing directly onto the back of the alternator case and see what happens. I have thermostatic control on the alternator that continuously measures the case temperature and puts it into time out when it hits 190º so it is easy to monitor any improvement.


Check what the current air temperature is inside the engine compartment. If there's much of a difference between the 190ºF casing and the air temperature, the glued on heat fins would be a good bet. When I was looking at cooling my alternator, I had an initial air temperature of about 150ºF.
When the alternator is off, it will cool down to about 160-170 which is about the engine space temperature. My hope is that with the change from a 180 to 160 coolant T-stat, I can get that lower.
 
Last edited:
Apr 5, 2009
2,819
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
The engine compartment should be about the same temperature as the engines operating temperature. The one area where that might not be true would be near the exhaust manifold.
This is what I have found with the space being about 170º and the engine coolant being 180º. I have checked the exhaust mixing elbow temp with my infrared gun and it is about the same due to the thermal wrapping I have installed.
 
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Jan 11, 2014
11,436
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
When the alternator is off, it will cool down to about 160-170 which is about the engine space temperature. My hope is that with the change from a 180 to 160 coolant T-stat, I can get that lower.
What effect will lowering the operating temperature have on the engine performance and combustion?
 
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Jan 4, 2006
6,491
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
The biggest problem is the temperature inside your engine compartment. Technically speaking, I'd say hotter than the hinges on the gates of hell.
This is something that I am looking at improviing. I have a 180º thermostat mounted in the M25XP which means that the temperature of the engine space is almost at the max operation temperature of the alternator. I am planning to go back to a 160º T-stat which will lower the base temperature although it is not as efficent for the engine.

OUCH ! That's not very neighbourly with those temps. I have a stat with a part number and no temp rating. It controls the engine coolant to 178 (gauge readout) at 2900 RPM and I had a compartment temp of 150 before I installed the exhaust fan. I now have 120º F compartment air temp. and engine still at 178º F for a △T of 58º. I realize you have a much larger engine but I still think added air volume by any means and then the fins is your best bet for this alt.

The squirrel cage fan is the best volume you're going to get (compared to my axial fan). I hope you have it mounted as close as possible to the engine compartment. The hot air is hard to pull due to its increased volume and a long suction would even further reduce the moved volume.

I'd be concerned what effect the lower stat temp might have on the engine such as carboned valves leading to burned valves.
 
Feb 10, 2004
3,943
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
It seems to me that I read somewhere that the bulk of the heat generated in the alternator was from the six diodes that rectify the A/C power from the stator. I think there is a kit that mounts the diode block out of the alternator and it is force-fan cooled. With that system the alternator fan only has to cool the stator and rotor.
Check me on this, I could be wrong. But don't check with my wife; she says I'm usually wrong.....
 

Tedd

.
Jul 25, 2013
750
TES 246 Versus near Vancouver, BC
Mis-spent some of my career designing cooling systems for industrial electronics. I think @Ralph Johnstone is on the right track: try to get cooler air to the alternator. Most likely, not a lot of the heat transfer out of the alternator is through the case so, even if you make a significant increase in that portion, it's not going to increase the total heat transfer by a lot. Whereas, if the alternator is sucking 50 C air and you can feed it 20 C air that's going to increase heat transfer by a lot.
 
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