AC Circuit Breaker

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Blitz

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Jul 10, 2007
677
Seidelmann 34 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
Seidelmann owners or others who might know;

I noticed today that after hooking up my batteries and plugging into the AC power at the marinia where the boat is on the hard that the circuit breaker won't turn on for the AC power. Does anyone know where I can get a replacement on line? It is made by Carling Switch Inc. and I assume it was replaced somewhere along the line once but not in some time. Enclosed is a picture of the side of the switch (3 - pole?) that has some of the specs on it.

Thanks You in advance of anyone that might be able to help.

Neal - Seildelmann 34, 1984
 
sailaway78

sailaway78

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May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Color Me Stupid

Don't think I have ever seen a three pole breaker before. Maybe have never looked in the proper place. Also, on that tag you posted a pic of, I see " Trip Voltage 65 ". Whats up with that. Circuit breakers are supposed to be tripped by amps, not volts. Is this voltage somehow on the ground wire. Some of you electrical whizzes jump in here, cause this is a totally new thingy for me.
 
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Blitz

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Jul 10, 2007
677
Seidelmann 34 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
circuit breaker

I thought the same thing, voltes instead of amps, three pole, why? I guess I'll have to read up on this one.

Nice & easy, did you change out your panel, since yours should be similar.

also, I always wondered why the battery charger works, without the AC main on. Sort of would think it is on the same circuit.

It won't stay in the cliched on position with or without the power hooked to the boat, making me think it's the switch as opposed to it tripping. Although I never really tried to turn it on without the power line hooked in.
 
Ron20324

Ron20324

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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Three-position breakers are usually only used for 240 volt AC input where you have two hots and one neutral. The label says 277 v (volts). Amperage for the hots is 30, and the netral does not have a rating, but is probably the same or used only as a switch. Perhaps the trip of 65 would be the difference between the two hots. Sounds like Blitz's boat may have been rewired at some time?
 
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B

Blitz

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Jul 10, 2007
677
Seidelmann 34 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
No rewiring

No, the boat in the electrical department is all original except with the addition of an extra house battery. The picture of the front panel is of the Seidelmann panel. Even the Guest battery isolator and Raritan Battery Charger is the original - sort of isn't broke, don't fix it.:)
 
Ed Schenck

Ed Schenck

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Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
AC won't turn on?

Does the c/b switch stay in the on position but you do not have power? Or does it seem to kick off when you move it to 'On"? I'd be worried that there is a short someplace that is kicking it off. You could isolate by first removing the wire between the main c/b and the push button for the outlets.

As for a new c/b I think I would call Blue Sea with the numbers. They can fit a regular two-pole for you.

The fact that the charger works just means that the shorepower to the boat is OK. The AC main should have nothing to do with that. At least on my boat the AC-in goes to the charger in parallel with the wire to the panel.
 
Ron20324

Ron20324

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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Ed Schenck said:
The fact that the charger works just means that the shorepower to the boat is OK. The AC main should have nothing to do with that. At least on my boat the AC-in goes to the charger in parallel with the wire to the panel.
Click to expand
It sounds like you do not have a circuit breaker for your charger? The charger should NOT be working if the AC main is off. That's why it's called the "MAIN"!

To quote the movie Australia, "Just becasue that's the way it is, doesn't mean that's the way it should be."
 
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sailaway78

sailaway78

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May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Blitz

My panel is totally different than yours. Has a two pole 30A breaker for AC, and all toggle switches. Boat is 81 year model. I wonder if your boat was possibly intended for the European market, or some other odd ball deal. The breaker may possibly be for a 240V setup, but have never seen that either. But the European stuff is certainly different. Other than that I don't have a clue.
 
Ron20324

Ron20324

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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Blitz needs to make a wiring plan diagram and change his arrangement accordingly. If the AC mains are kaput this is a good time to do that. Buy Calder's or some other authoritative book on boat wiring and don't listen to the many personal opinions you'll get on this forum.
 
B

Blitz

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Jul 10, 2007
677
Seidelmann 34 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
Study time

Ron20324 said:
Blitz needs to make a wiring plan diagram and change his arrangement accordingly. If the AC mains are kaput this is a good time to do that. Buy Calder's or some other authoritative book on boat wiring and don't listen to the many personal opinions you'll get on this forum.
Click to expand

Ron - I agree, I need to study the wiring and convert some things to a better system even though it's been stable for all these years. Standards change and I know there are better ways on doing things now. I was planning on doing this anyway but will be forced to do it sooner now than later if I can't find the switch. Thanks.
 
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Blitz

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Jul 10, 2007
677
Seidelmann 34 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
Not European

Nice N Easy said:
My panel is totally different than yours. Has a two pole 30A breaker for AC, and all toggle switches. Boat is 81 year model. I wonder if your boat was possibly intended for the European market, or some other odd ball deal. The breaker may possibly be for a 240V setup, but have never seen that either. But the European stuff is certainly different. Other than that I don't have a clue.
Click to expand

Nice N Easy;
I guess Seidelmann must of changed things along the way if your are different. Blue Seas has the same switch but each pole has it's own switch linked together with the other two poles. Their switch is also made by Carlingswitch. Also, this boat was purchased new for use in the U.S.A. with it's first season starting in June 1984. It was never intended for the european market, I know since I visited the factory during the manufactoring - even seen the hull pulled from the mold. The boat has been my family from the start.
 
Rick Webb

Rick Webb

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Jun 2, 2004
3,399
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
Could it be Designed for bringing in 220

If it brought in 220 and the 110 legs were seperate so that you would not have any 220 circuts on the boat.
 
B

Blitz

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Jul 10, 2007
677
Seidelmann 34 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
AC Circuit

Rick Webb said:
If it brought in 220 and the 110 legs were seperate so that you would not have any 220 circuts on the boat.
Click to expand

Rick - I'm not sure where you are going with this but I have never hooked the boat up to 220.
 
kloudie1

kloudie1

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Nov 6, 2006
9,900
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
You are right, Rick.. It sure looks like the way a house is wired where 110 comes off separate legs of the 240.. But since Blitz has known the boat all along, it must be some kind of 240 breaker being used to cover all three wires of the incoming 110?? Maybe to get a total separation from Shore power when it is turned off?? Strange. .. Blitz, what are the wire colors hooked to the three breaker parts? It looks like you have room for three individual breakers so if worse comes to worse, ya could drill two more holes for the switch toggle to stick through and replace the one with three..?? (with a toggle clamp so they must be all on or all off!.)
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
22,782
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
AC Main Breaker

Blitz said:
Here are the pictures associated with the previous...
Click to expand
Don't understand the whole European discussion. It appears from the pictures that only ONE leg is being switched because there's only one toggle switch. The other breaker legs could well be always on. My guess is that they had a few three leg switches laying around in the factory and just used 'em. That happens all the time. Without being able to physically inspect it, this is just a GUESS. Got it? Only Blitz can tel us if I'm close.

KISS, Blitz. Just buy a two leg AC main.

As far as the charger is concerned, Ron's right, draw a wiring diagram. Some chargers were wired to be on once you've plugged in and avoid having the AC main ON when you're away form the boat when remained plugged in. This is a design PHILOSOPHY rather than a "right or wrong." Your boat, your choice. If doen that way, use another switch for the charger on/off.

As far as Ron's concerned, don't listen to any of us! :):):)
 
Rick Webb

Rick Webb

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Jun 2, 2004
3,399
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
My Thoughts

The breaker may be desined for two 110 circuts as in 220. 220 is two 110 hots and a neutral. Using on leg gets you 110 using both gets 220.

A friends trawler is set up this way. He hooks up to 220 but has two 110 legs. Just like in a house with 220 and 110 circuts.

If it is set up this way perhaps each end of your breaker goes to the same leg on you shorepower inlet.

If that is the case you could maybe just go with a double breaker one for the hot and one for the neutral.

I am not an electrician i just watch them on TV and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Will Duck Tape hold it closed?
 
T

tsmwebb

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Jan 1, 2009
371
Atlantic 42 Honolulu
Nice N Easy said:
Don't think I have ever seen a three pole breaker before. Maybe have never looked in the proper place.
Click to expand
I think the idea is that the breaker is on both the hot and neutral wires so that it will trip even if there is reverse polarity. I think this is ABYC required. Some panels use two single pole breakers (on hot and neutral) rather than a single package two pole breaker.

--Tom.
 
Ed Schenck

Ed Schenck

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Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Ron, you are wrong about my H37C wiring. My Heart Freedom 20 is the charger and a 2000 watt inverter. The 110v main c/b has to be able to turn off either shorepower or 110 from the inverter. I have seen many boats wired like that. There is a c/b involved but it is on the Freedom 20, not on the panel.
 
Ron20324

Ron20324

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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Unless Blitz has a clothes dryer or air conditioning, I'd wonder why he'd use more than 30 amps of shore power (I know, it can be done) and if he has two 30-amp shore power inputs OR a 50-amp one? I suppose we'd have to further know his shore power setup (how many conductors in the cable?) to figure it out properly. In the pictured breaker, if one of the hot breakers trip, both of them AND the neutral trip. As stated, he needs to trace everything and make a wiring diagram.

In breaker boxes in a house, they tell you to balance the number of breakers so each side of the 220 draws about evenly. IMHO, that is why the 65V trip is labeled- if one hot draws too much more than the other. The two 110's are in opposite phase and must be pretty much equal in load.
 
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