Abandoned vessels, what's the solution?
- Thread starter T-Schwan
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It really is a very simple problem to sol;ve.
When buying a boat or when a foreign flag boat enters the country, one must buy a bond that will cover the removal of an abandoned or wrecked boat. This bond can be returned when the boat is sold or leaves US waters. To make it more palatable, the bond could make interest.
When buying a boat or when a foreign flag boat enters the country, one must buy a bond that will cover the removal of an abandoned or wrecked boat. This bond can be returned when the boat is sold or leaves US waters. To make it more palatable, the bond could make interest.
Perhaps a program that repurposes old boats into small houses for the homeless would be nice but I fear that would just delay the inevitable issue of how to get rid of it when it's no longer wanted
The US government may pay interest but will then turn around and tax you on that interest LOL
As soon as you think it is simple, it is not. The deposit cost will be higher than the value of the boat, resulting in a huge dump of boats that are untraceable. Secondly, how to you enforce it for trailer sailors? I have a couple of boats that have not seen water in years. if such a rule came about, who is going to come after me. These are small boats that at some point I will take a sawsall to them, once I strip for parts. But why should I pay a security deposit for a boat that is not in the water?
I had the same thought, but a google search with a number of different keywords comes up dry.
I'm thinking it would cost far less and be more practical to repurpose old travel trailers, assuming you could convince them to move off the street and into whatever community would have to be put in.
On a hopeful note, there is a company that is apparently making a go of it recycling fiberglass boat hulls (for kiln fuel, I believe).
Rhode Island boat recycling program plans expansion to other states
Rhode Island boat recycling program plans expansion to other states
It could be simple. First off, it's not a security deposit, it's a bond and why should the cost be higher than the value of the boat? Once the cost for the bond gets close enough to the value of the boat, then it will be time to dispose of the boat, no? Perhaps the incentive should be to set up the cost of disposal as you buy the boat, that way you can be rewarded for selling it at a higher value than the cost of disposal.
You redeem the bond when you sell the boat or leave it at the dump or take an insurance claim for a totaled boat. @PETER SCHMIDT highlights the problem perfectly. Who is going to pay $3,000 to get rid of their boat. All we ever do is attempt to push our problems on to somebody lower in the food chain. Why do you think there are there so many "free" boats available. The marine environment would be so much cleaner if disposal where encouraged via a funded program rather than discouraged by pricing that nobody is willing to pay? Program gets funded by bonds. If you own a marina, fine, pay into the program, maybe a bond for every slip currently occupied ( and the marina should redeem a bond every time the marina delivers a boat to the dump). Buy a boat, buy the bond at that time. You can redeem, or let the marina redeem when they deliver the boat after you've abandoned it. This also requires more liberal actions for marinas to take ownership and redeem bonds for boats when they can't locate the owner or the owner is neglecting.
To get rid of abandoned boats, there has to be an incentive to do it properly. Paying fees at the dump isn't an incentive. Perhaps it is managed locally, regionally, or statewide, or nationally (Boat US involvement?)
I don't know why the cost should be any higher than would be reasonable for the eventuality that all boats must ultimately be destroyed in a responsible manner.
A bond? Hmmm...if I scuttle my boat in deep water, and report it stolen, do I get my bond back?
Why would you do that? Do you want to invite prosecution for a false police report?
I don't know how much truth there is to the conversation I have had with a marina manager here in MI but he has told me that without a registration the marina can not destroy the vessel. Thus the abandon vessels are then lined up along the back fence waiting, for what I am not sure.
NO. Disposal cost of my previous boat would have easily been in the 1500 range to pay some government agency do it. I only paid 2400 for the boat. As soon as you add 1500 to the 2500, at the time, that would have put it out of my price range. Screw that, I strongly oppose YOU preventing me from enjoying my hobby of sailing. When the boat was crushed by a tree, I cut it up and disposed of it properly. Total cost was 300 bucks, because I did the work myself.
Don't forget there are many of us who are able to do things we otherwise could not afford, simply because we are diyers. Same with my motorhome. It was an '83. I did all my own work, and was able to enjoy it for 16 years/85k miles. You start taking away my hobbies, and I will be very displeased with you. Just another government program where the rich oppress the poor and that ain't cool.
This is the root of the problem, particularly in S Florida and the Keys.
Property is being bought up and turned into hosing for AirBnB and the wealthy who visit once or twice a year. The tourism industry has a huge need for low income workers, wait staff, cleaning staff, etc, etc. Housing is too expensive for low income workers, so they buy old boats, anchor them and then have affordable housing, until the next storm and the boat breaks free or the resident is tired of "living the dream" and abandon S Florida.
Florida, especially S Florida has been trying to deal with this issue. There are several initiatives under way. It becomes a challenge because they need the workers who live on these boats, they have to appease the wealthy who seem to think that all boaters who anchor out are undesireable, and responsible cruisers who need a place to anchor or moor (who also support the local economies).
This is a big issue for Key West and there are some initiatives under way there. For more information search abandoned boats and FWD (Florida Wildlife Dept.), Monroe County abandoned boats.
The cost of disposal may actually be less than the cost to transport the vessel to the recycling facility. That leads me to another question... Is there more harm done to the environment caused by emissions of transportation, electricity and other resources required to properly dispose of a fiberglass boat than to simply leave it? Harmful fluids and bottom paint aside, does the boat actually leach harmful chemicals into our air, water or soil as it sits? A similar analogy is hybrids and electric vehicles - Does the fuel savings actually offset the whole supply chain that's utilized in manufacturing, maintaining and operation of such a vehicle?
The aerospace industry has been dealing with this problem for a while. As planes are increasingly build with composites there is an increase in waste. They are finding solutions. One solution is to grind up the scrap and the using the scrap to make things like tray tables and seat arms. Rhode Island is also looking at solutions, one is to grind up the boats and use them as fuel for generating electricity.
Aesthetically the abandoned boats are an eyesore and there is no guarantee that during the next hurricane they won't come free and do more damage to the environment and other buildings and boats.
Advantages and Disadvantages of Plasma Pyrolysis
plasma.
Aircraft carriers are being built today with plasma pyrolysis technology to reduce their onboard waste. Imagine a salvage ship that travels around, cutting up derelict boats for parts and powers their operation with a plasma furnace fed by crushed fiberglass hulls. It is one thing to scrounge for a payoff from marine salvage when you just have a truck, hand tools, and a trailer or garage, but if your entire operations and workshop space is designed to salvage old boat parts, it will probably be a lot more efficient and cost effective. A small converted vessel, say in the 30 to 60 meter range could both collect salvage and provide point of sale while running their operation on the energy captured by their on-board plasma furnace. It might not only be a viable business, but it could qualify for a number of government environmental and waste management subsidies. With so few facilities currently in the world, there would probably also be interest in funding the advancement of the technology to help make it cheaper in the future.
-Will
plasma.
Aircraft carriers are being built today with plasma pyrolysis technology to reduce their onboard waste. Imagine a salvage ship that travels around, cutting up derelict boats for parts and powers their operation with a plasma furnace fed by crushed fiberglass hulls. It is one thing to scrounge for a payoff from marine salvage when you just have a truck, hand tools, and a trailer or garage, but if your entire operations and workshop space is designed to salvage old boat parts, it will probably be a lot more efficient and cost effective. A small converted vessel, say in the 30 to 60 meter range could both collect salvage and provide point of sale while running their operation on the energy captured by their on-board plasma furnace. It might not only be a viable business, but it could qualify for a number of government environmental and waste management subsidies. With so few facilities currently in the world, there would probably also be interest in funding the advancement of the technology to help make it cheaper in the future.
-Will
I did that with my old hobie cat. The town dump charges me by weight for the disposal of the hull and the salvage yard down the road paid me for the aluminum and steal. I made about $40. Chainsaws are easy tools to use on fiberglass. Can reduce a hull to pickup bed size chunks pretty quickly.
Not a bad idea. However, don't shipyards take a deposit against abandonment when they accept a boat into their yard? My guess is they pocket the abandonment deposit and let the abandoned boats sit in their yards even though they have already mitigated the cost of disposal on the front end. Then, they complain that it is too expensive to have that boat hauled away.
The same is true of the private sector foots the bill. Even more so, in fact. Where there is cost to a supplier of goods or services, their customers will get the bill until they start losing customers. We boat owners, in this case, are the customers. Yard and marina prices will go up faster than any tax hike would result. There is unlikely to be a loss of servicesto shift costs either, except in the private sector.
Perhapse the original purchase would include a redemption deposit like with glass, plastic, and aluminum
bottles. Sailors drink a lot of . Why not get your deposit back like returning an empty can? I don't think that smells of socialism. That's just recognizing a wide spread problem and taking steps to correct it.-Will
Here's an interesting example. This ship has been sitting here for a couple of decades or so. It's worth $1 million in scrap. As of last year it's still there. Some sources claim it's been there since '82. It's 620ft long
A ship that’s been at the Port of Chicago for decades will finally be moved
I'm the kind of guy that would grind off the hull number of my boat, and abandon it on a public waterway. Is it any surprise that I'm also the kind of guy that would file a false report to get back my bond money? With interest! Okay, years later, my boat is found on the bottom, and the authorities let me know they've found it. I'm also the kind of guy that would tell the police they need to find the monster that stole my beloved vessel and sunk her.
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