A story of the engine that could.... Then didn't…NOW DOES

Oct 22, 2014
21,105
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I have been thinking about how to write this tale of woe. A couple of my friends here at SBO have commented about the drama I have been experiencing with the Perkins 4.107 engine in my 48 year old boat. While it came to me with evidence of abuse, with some normal maintenance and minimal fixings it powered me on a series of adventures in the Puget Sound and the waters of Canada over the past 6 years.

It all started with my planning to go adventuring in the wilds of British Columbia, September 2021. Having talked and planned for the past couple of years about sailing around Vancouver Island, an approximate 800nm cruise from my home port of Everett WA, and with the hassles of COVID in the rearview it looked to be a fair sailing opportunity.

Going out for a 60 day planned cruise, I wanted to leave as little to chance as possible. The mast and rigging were ready. I had secured a strong anchor system and line for stern ties when that was the only way to secure the boat. I outfitted the inflatable with a 6hp outboard and made a safe rack on the rail for a kayak. New sails had been purchased over the past couple of years, and with the experience/skills of my sailing buddy @LeslieTroyer, we had fabricated/installed new AC & DC power and control systems.

Only major system not yet ready was auxiliary power. While my Perkins 4.107 has been running smooth and without temperature issues for these past 6 years, I still wanted to have a mechanic look it over. Scheduled the appointment. The mechanic gave positive reenforcement that the engine still looked capable of making my planned voyage. We checked the valves and adjusted two of them to bring them all to a common place. Restarted the engine and all sounded good.
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One major issue was noted. 2 of the injectors had broken hold downs. While they still functioned, it only felt prudent to correct this problem. I took all 4 injectors out and had them services as a Seattle shop. They came back in about 10 days ready for install.
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With the injectors in place, I bleed the fuel lines and pushed the starter button to hear the Varooom.

No varooom instead the starter kept going when it should stop. Damn…. Switching off the main power corrected this problem. What is wrong with the starter?

After a series of testings, install/remove/install/remove and visits to the electrical shop where I purchased the beast - I got the starter back after a couple days with a new solenoid. We added a relay to back up the new solenoid and WHIRRRR the starter jumped in and turned the flywheel. Now we’re going somewhere.

Again bleed the fuel lines, kick it over… no varooom… DAmn… Maybe there is a leak. Seems like air is getting into the lines. Well they are likely 48 years old. So off to the hose shop for new fuel lines. And while I am at it I bought and installed a new filter polishing system. Who knows what fuel issues might be out there lurking in the wilds.
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It would be nice to be a couple miles from the boat so I could go over and work on these issues when ever. But I don’t. It is a 250 mile jaunt from home to boat. These projects are taking way longer into the year than ever considered. An end go June departure was now out of the question and soon the reservations at Thetis for a Catalina Rendezvous had to be rain checked for next year. DAMn…..

With plans on hold I concentrated on getting the motor to go Varooom… With my next drive to the boat planed for after the 4th and all the fuel lines ready I was expecting positive results maybe even an opportunity to go for a sail once I heard that sweet sound of the Varooom..

While my boat has what could be considered an engine space (tiny room), the entry requires a person to slide in a narrow door and then you can sit up or lay on your side to work on the engine. Slipping into the engine space, I went again through the procedure of checking fluids, affirming the fuel lines were bleed, turn on the power, and then push the starter.

While the starter turned the engine over perhaps a revolution, there was an ominous CLUNK. Then nothing. I tried the starter one more time NOTHING. No rotation… No VAROOOM… NOTHING. DAMN DAMN DAMN….

Now what.

Numerous possibilities came to mind and were suggested as I reached out to fellow sailors for ideas.
  • Hydrolock… Raw water was off - just bumping the engine to get fuel to the injectors. No water lift muffler on the engine.
  • Does excess Diesel cause hydrolock? Removed the injectors to expose the cylinders to air.
  • Have you tried manually turning the crankshaft. Yes. It is frozen in place.
  • How about the starter? Removed starter. No joy.
  • Are you in Neutral? Perhaps the Transmission is the issue. Yes in neutral. But maybe the damper plate has lost a spring or is causing the lock up? Removed the transmission and all the springs look in place. Nothing looks out of the ordinary.
  • We used a 4x4 across the companion way and lifted the V-Drive up then attached it to the boom. Using the 6-1 mainsheet tackle we pulled it throough the companion way and over to the dock. It was lowered into a cart and delivered to the Tranny shop. 0528F8FA-1C46-4E01-B9DA-165E8CC004CE.jpeg 18CF6EF4-289F-4881-A74D-28A7B6482F22.jpeg
  • What about the high pressure pump. Perhaps the gears are jammed. Removed the pulleys belts and water pump to get at the cover plate. Removed the cover plate and all the gears have their teeth, are bathed in oil - yet the gears on the crankshaft are frozen in place. LOCKED UP. There is a little wiggle on the gear for the high pressure fuel pump so think it is still functioning if the crankshaft would rotate.
Now I am at an impasse. Next step is to pull the engine out of the boat. That looks to be a project that will put my sailing of SV Hadley back maybe 6 months.

Which way is the best path…
  • Pull engine. Resolve problem. Rebuild engine?
  • Pull engine find a rebuilt unit and hope it is good and can fit the boat?
  • Scrap engine and buy a new engine for the boat?
  • Sell the boat for scrap and buy a new boat.
This is my dilemma… Well that is the sad story.

In the words of Eva Perone… “Don’t cry for me Argentina!”

All ideas are welcome.
 
Jan 4, 2006
6,491
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Looking on the bright side, your writing skills are excellent :clap: !

Do I understand you correctly to say that the crankshaft has been locked up all this time ? If I'm wrong, at what point did you discover that the shaft was indeed seized ?

yet the gears on the crankshaft are frozen in place. LOCKED UP.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,377
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Well it is not my money so do what you want but I want my next cruising sailboat to have an electric aux.

 
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Oct 22, 2014
21,105
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Good query Ralph.
From the valve adjustment, to the time I completed the fuel line replacement the engine would turn over without an issue. After install of the injectors and the new starter, I tried to bleed the system. This procedure included using the manual fuel pump to get fuel to the high pressure pump. Then turning the engine over with 2 of the injector's fuel lines loose. The engine turned over without issue.

Upon seeing fuel around the line connections I figured the lines no longer were sealed, perhaps leaking air - why the engine was not starting. Changed out the fuel line. Bleed the fuel lines to the high pressure pump. pushed the starter. It turned over did not start, then CLUNK. Crankshaft seized.
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,423
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
John and I have been discussing this for a while and moved it out of the Vacuum Gauge link.

I have suggested one last disparate try of adding SeaFoam DeepCreep Foam and/or Brake Fluid to each of his 4 cylinder via the injectors. Testing showed those 2 are better than PB-Blaster.

Why?

Both of those items can release stuck piston rings. I know, since I did the same for my 16hp Yanmar Genset Engine.

I am helping by looking for a new 4107 or 4108 engine to fit his Configuration.

Also scanning the Market for a new Boat nearby him. Shipping a boat is not a good thing.

SBO friends to the Rescue for John....

Jim...

PS: I am stuck with John , since we host the Weather and Forecasting Forum. Oh well, he is stuck with me too.
 
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May 1, 2011
4,247
Pearson 37 Lusby MD
tale of woe.
Well-written, John. Sorry to hear of your woes. No comparison, but I finally got my boat back after the manual hydraulic pump and rams for backstay and vang decided to leak after 15 seasons (in Apr). COVID this and COVID that. Hope to get out sailing next weekend.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,105
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
You go for it Kappy.
My sailing skill are rusting like the metal of my seized engine. Maybe faster.
 
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Nov 6, 2006
9,894
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Sorry to hear, John. I was hoping that your "klunk" was a not-expensive kind but as you post more info, it is starting to sound not-so-good. Not a whole lot of things that will lock the crank in both directions; I think you've eliminated most of 'em .. Can you remove the oil pan to look for klunk stuff without pulling the engine?
Not to be a killjoy, but a friend's Westerbeke split a piston and it seized that way, but it was running when it klunked.. It seems strange to me that it was able to lock itself solid while not running. I have had cars break crankshafts and break piston rods while running but all of them could be rotated a little (25-30 degrees) in both directions.. I dunno..
 
Jun 11, 2004
1,633
Oday 31 Redondo Beach
Which way is the best path…
  • Pull engine. Resolve problem. Rebuild engine?
  • Pull engine find a rebuilt unit and hope it is good and can fit the boat?
  • Scrap engine and buy a new engine for the boat?
  • Sell the boat for scrap and buy a new boat.
Before doing any of that can you pull the head and look to see if anything has fallen into a cylinder that might be jamming a piston? Perhaps a small washer or something fell in when you R&R'd the injectors? Or a valve stem broke? Unlikely I know but a less drastic measure than your four listed items.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,105
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
We have discussed the idea of removing the pan. If even possible which is in doubt, what ever happened would need to be in the pan.

if we can get the engine out, then we need a shop to examine the engine and block.
 
Oct 1, 2007
1,858
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
Only major system not yet ready was auxiliary power. While my Perkins 4.107 has been running smooth and without temperature issues for these past 6 years, I still wanted to have a mechanic look it over. Scheduled the appointment. The mechanic gave positive reenforcement that the engine still looked capable of making my planned voyage. We checked the valves and adjusted two of them to bring them all to a common place. Restarted the engine and all sounded good.
My goodness John. I lived with a 4.107 for 12 years. Mine looked as rusted as yours and ran just as well as yours. Except I left well enough alone, changed the oil, checked the lifters once in a blue moon, and we got along just fine.
Sorry, not to be a wise guy, but this tale of woe sounds like a classic case of "..if it ain't broke, don't fix it.."
You have gone from the engine "..running smooth.." to scrapping the boat!
 

Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,651
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
I've followed John's adventures in upgrading S/V Hadley over the past few years as he prepped for his upcoming sailing adventures into the wilds.
This latest setback, when he should be at the end of his refit, just plain sucks!!! Doing routine maintenance and shit happens.

Knowing John's and Les's attention to detail, I think this may be a blessing in disguise. Better to have the engine go down in your home slip than in Desolation Sound isolated from civilization. It will be interesting to hear what the autopsy finds.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,105
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
@Rick486 I agree with the wisdom of the idea “if it ain’t broke…”. I normally follow the concept. It has served me well.

In this case the adjustment of the valves revealed that a previous mechanic appeared to over tighten the injector hold downs. Removal of the valve cover revealed two of them being broken (split into two pieces).

The chain of events that has followed, baffles me. Trying to make sense of the experiences. As Ward states, “better to happen in home port…” has me considering the existence of the spirits that are said to watch over sailors.

My curiosity urges me on to discover what is the cause of the damage that seized the engine. I will try to do a better job of photography as I remove the engine and examine it’s innards.
 
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Apr 5, 2009
2,819
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
Just working from the facts as presented.
While the starter turned the engine over perhaps a revolution, there was an ominous CLUNK. Then nothing. I tried the starter one more time NOTHING. No rotation…
"Perhaps a revolution", or perhaps less? if it turned over less than one revolution, I would look to some type of obstruction inside the cylinder that is preventing the piston from reaching top-dead-center. Have you tried rotating the crankshaft backwards? If there is something inside the cylinder it should rotate backwards to lower the piston back down as long as the obstruction is not wedged into the ring gap. If you cannot rotate the crankshaft in either direction, I would pull the head as a first move to see the top end. That also has the nice benefit of making the remaining bits lighter in case you need to go deeper.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,105
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Good points Hayden. At this point we are preparing an A-frame track setup to permit us to lift and move the engine from it’s mounts to the companion way. Head removal has been discussed. Lightening the load is a part of our thinking.

Our challenge is a lack of work space and a deep (4.5 feet) bilge over which we must accomplish the removal of the nuts and bolts. So far the only casualties have been a couple of washers which have been sacrificed to the abyss.
 
Apr 5, 2009
2,819
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
I would certainly pull the head before removal of the engine. If the problem is in the top side, that is a much easier rebuild. The bottom end of these small industrial diesels are very strong and reliable.
 
Apr 5, 2009
2,819
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
A clunk when first turning over an engine especially with no start would suggest something inside the cylinder.
 
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Jun 2, 2007
403
Beneteau First 375 Slidell, LA
A couple of far-fetched possibilities here - is the valve cover off? On my engine it's possible for an object to drop down into the oil galleries and maybe jam the crank or camshaft. Also, maybe the starter became loose and misaligned, jamming the ring gear? A long shot, for sure.