a small leak

[Jim]

Sail Maine, if you don't mind, what is the cost of drooping a keel and reinstalling it.

I understand the cost replacing the keel bolts depend on how the bolts are secured. I think they are mounted into a nut or wielded onto a plate inside the keel. The nut has to be cheaper but still getting the puppy out has to be a job and a half. Forget about the plate, right, this has to be dug out and reforged.

 

[Jim]

Also, is bolt failure a bad thing????

The 5200 will hold the keel in place long after the keel boats are gone. Sure it leak, they all leak. I think there is a danger of losing the keel but more than likely the keel will out last you. Production boats lose their keels and rudder every now and then. You get what you pay for.

 

[Maine Sail]

Sail Maine, if you don't mind, what is the cost of drooping a keel and reinstalling it.

I understand the cost replacing the keel bolts depend on how the bolts are secured. I think they are mounted into a nut or wielded onto a plate inside the keel. The nut has to be cheaper but still getting the puppy out has to be a job and a half. Forget about the plate, right, this has to be dug out and reforged.

Jim,

5200, without bolts, won't hold long when you are tacking or beating up wind. Hanging in mid air sitting still the 5200 will, in most cases, still not give up the keel.Sailing without keel bolts would be an entirely different venture than a static hanging keel. What would fail is the fiberglass lamination's themselves seeing as 5200 can actually be stronger than the bond between layers of polyester resin laminated fiberglass. When I removed my keel it ripped away a large chunk of the keel stub when it finally broke free.

It is quite expensive and labor intensive. Keel bolts in lead are usually J shaped and held in place with a jig and then the lead is poured around them. In order to replace keel bolts, the right way, you send the keel out to a place like Mars Metals. Mars will melt away the sides of the keel where the bolt is, remove them and then rebuild/ re-pour the lead around the new bolts.

When I re-set the keel on my Cat 30 it was expensive and I did a lot of it myself. Slowly jacking the boat building the keel jig, re-fairing the stub cleaning p the 5200 etc. etc. is much more labor intensive than it appears.

I did not use the Mars Method and only wish I knew about it then. We used the barrel bolt method where the sides of the keel are cored out and taped barrels are inserted to which stainless threaded rod is then threaded. The fairing of the barrel nut is nearly impossible to keep dry as it will move some ,as keels do, from tack to tack.

If I had to guess a keel re-set with new keel bolts will run you in the 5k+ range. If the bolts aren't bad they can sometimes be built up by a very experienced welder, passivated and re-threaded..

 

[Ross]

Re: Ok Ross how about

Jim, Because I did all of the work of bedding the deck hardware I countersunk all of the bolt holes so that when I tightened the bolys caulk was forced around the shank and not squeezed out. mMy Through the deck fitting for my mast wire is a NEMA box connected to the mast with flex conduit and fastened to the deck with screws and bedded withy caulk. I used Airex core when I reinforced the hull. When I drilled for chain plates I removed a 2 inch diameter plug from the inside and replaced it with black locust bedded in thickened epoxy and glassed over on the inside. The boat is stored summer and winter without cover and is always dry. We launched her in 1999 and have weathered at least two hurricanes and several northeasters and the boat is always dry.

 

[Steve Christensen]

If you don't mind me asking, what was the order of magnitude or approximate cost for dropping and rebeding the keel? Did you do it yourself?

In my case the keel job was combined with a hull peel, so I didn't try to do it myself. In 1995 in central Michigan the job added between $1000 and $1500 to the overall cost.

 

[Jim]

Wow, good info. Thanks Sail Maine and Steve E-38. It is a big job to drop the keel.

Sail Maine you are right the Fiberglass could give where the 5200 is holding the keel on. I never though of that. I have a friend with a mid 1980 O'Day 27 that has keel problem. Looks like he need to drop the keel and repair it. I am sure it will need keel bolts. The boat is only worth about 7-8k. I am not sure it is worth it to fix it. I would just sail it until the keel falls off. It may never happen in his life time.

 

[Hermit Scott]

What about moist air coming in? Is that a leak? What about when you sweat into the cushions? Is that a leak? What about when you fill up your water tank? That is water from the outside going to the inside of Ross's boat.

 

[Jim]

Scott

Scott, it is hard to tell from Ross's write up what he did and if it will help or hurt. He doesn't sail in open water so his boat is subject to less stress which is hard on caulk.

He could have install solar vents and gaskets on the water tanks. I am sure there is a leak somewhere in his boat. Never meet a dog that didn't have fleas or a boat that didn't leak.

Now, I do think he is a good craftman and would hire him if lived closer to me.

 

[Ross]

Scott, it is hard to tell from Ross's write up what he did and if it will help or hurt. He doesn't sail in open water so his boat is subject to less stress which is hard on caulk.

He could have install solar vents and gaskets on the water tanks. I am sure there is a leak somewhere in his boat. Never meet a dog that didn't have fleas or a boat that didn't leak.

Now, I do think he is a good craftman and would hire him if lived closer to me.

Jim, A sure sign of madness is endlessly repeating the same effort in the expectation of different results.
Jim , If I lived closer, you couldn't afford to hire me. I work only open ended time and material @ 80 dollars per hour. I hire any expert help on the same basis and charge accordingly.

 

[Jim]

Ross, I am not paying the travel time.

Plus, I have a retire friend that charges $40 per hour and does good work. You should see is teak refinishing work. Very nice! If anyone is looking in the Jersey Shore Area send me a message. I'll pass your contact info to him.

I guess, you are trying to explain something here Ross, "sign of madness". I already figure it out a long time ago, but thanks.