Not to mention it's faster getting out of other peoples way if you don't have to wait for the tank to empty before leaving the ramp.
A Possible Solution for the "Mac Bump"
- Thread starter Sumner
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Thanks and we will give it a try. So far we have been lucky and the ramps we have used haven't ever been busy. Well the one at Lake Powell is...
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/MacgregorTrips-3-Powell09/09-10-1-Powell-09.html
...but as you can see it can handle a lot of boats at the same time. I would not want to be there though on a holiday weekend,
Sum
Our Endeavour 37
Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Our MacGregor S Pages
Mac-Venture Links
Jim, I am probably missing something very obvious here, but given the valve needs to be undone to let the water out why does the air not just come out from under the rubber washer at the top of the valve stem. Is it that you need to make some sort of clamp arrangement to hold that rubber washer against the top of the tank?
or is it that the pressure of the water coming out the bottom of the tank keeps the rubber washer at the top sealed against the ballast tank?Sorry Sumner, when I made my comment about the front of the trailer flexing and the moveable headstock I had some how or other missed your post and a few of the others - that comes from looking after kids in the school holidays whilst trying to concentrate on other things - too old for this game!I just posted another page on why I think the 'gap' appears......
..... even when the boat is in the "V" while the boat/trailer or in the water. It is here....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-trailer/trailer-mods-17-a.html
When I first purchased my boat I was going to get a new trailer built. The trailer guy said any flex in a trailer puts too much strain on a boat and he wanted to build one out of heavy galvanised box section - I thought that a bit of overkill and backed away from the idea. Plus, as there are only about 5 or 6 other 26 classics in Australia, I didn't think he would be in a position to understand a lot of other issues about the boat's construction and use. My thinking was to wait until I understood the boat a bit more before doing anything. A lot of the Classics have been around for a long time, so whatever we have can't be all that bad and my thinking is to build on what I have rather than try to reinvent the wheel.
I am still not sure what the answer to all this is but hopefully the penny will drop sometime. Thanks for all your write ups, you have lots and lots of good information in there as usual.
I wouldn't be over concerned with some flex. Lots of trailers have some along with some big ones. If the boat was tied down hard on the trailer multiple places that might not be good, but with a strap at the back and pulled up into the "V" the trailer would just flex under the boat.
We like to live in the boat on the road and also like to have almost everything in it going to where we put in and that means 2 outboards on the back, possibly 19 gallons of fuel in the Laz tank and much more. For that reason I decided to put a ...
...sub-frame under ours and add the ...
...second axle. I would of considered buying a new aluminum one, but I'd already customized this trailer with a number of upgrades and decide to continue with what I had. It has worked well for us, but might not be the right move for someone else. If I didn't have that much in the boat on the road, but was still towing some distance I would definitely add a second axle with surge disc brakes if I currently didn't have brakes. You could do this here for under $700-$800 including having someone do some welding for you if you didn't have a welder.
On the bow roller one other though. I'm not saying where I put our bow roller is the only place it can go, but if you go much further forward the bow starts marching upward at an ever increasing angle. I didn't want to get the roller up on that curve. I positioned ours where it is after looking at other ones and trying to get about where they seemed to be located. I haven't found anything negative about where it is, 61 inches back from the bow as you indicated, but can see some potential problems going too much further forward. Where it is seems to pick...
the bow up fine as the boat comes forward on the trailer,
Sum
Our Endeavour 37
Our Trips to Utah,
Idaho, Canada, Florida
Our MacGregor S Pages
Mac-Venture Links
ro
You have the same set up like mine also a 26D The front winch post is very short compared to the S type. The Mac Bump appears to work better for us.
I had to repair the trailer. It had broken springs, wheel bearings gone. Non existent wiring. Moved the axle back 12 inches, Bunks rotten, Installed front lower roller, etc etc. I didn't have time to add an extension to the tow bar and raise the V and install some bow steps. That's this coming winter. The springs were almost bottoming out on the axle so I doubled the 2X6 bunks raising it another 1 1/2 inches. On reading the thread would there be any advantage to raising just the rear bunk as I did to assist if not cure the MacB gap when loading??
Mic
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something sort of interesting.
Sumner, I think legally you must have trailer brakes with your rig..
If you keep the boat and trailer under 3000 pounds, trailer brakes are always a good idea but generally not legally required in a lot of US states.
(if I interpret this correctly http://www.boatwheels.biz/brakelaws.pdf )
Stock trailer plus boat is 2200 pounds. (Mac literature which hopefully includes the boom and sails but who knows..)
outboard 100
anchor/chain 130
batteries 130
extra wood 100
electronics 100
spare tire 100
junk 200
total 3060 (need to diet and shed 60 pounds of junk..) Trailer brakes are of course a good idea but interesting that the Mac Classics probably can be legally trailered without the brakes (and Im guessing a lot of the trailer brakes dont work..)
Also depends on the weight of the tow vehicle (this is for Alabama - first state in the list)
Sumner, I think legally you must have trailer brakes with your rig..
If you keep the boat and trailer under 3000 pounds, trailer brakes are always a good idea but generally not legally required in a lot of US states.
(if I interpret this correctly http://www.boatwheels.biz/brakelaws.pdf )
Stock trailer plus boat is 2200 pounds. (Mac literature which hopefully includes the boom and sails but who knows..)
outboard 100
anchor/chain 130
batteries 130
extra wood 100
electronics 100
spare tire 100
junk 200
total 3060 (need to diet and shed 60 pounds of junk..) Trailer brakes are of course a good idea but interesting that the Mac Classics probably can be legally trailered without the brakes (and Im guessing a lot of the trailer brakes dont work..)
Also depends on the weight of the tow vehicle (this is for Alabama - first state in the list)
Also interesting..
If the trailer cant be more than 40% of the tow vehicle weight (to not need brakes for 3000 pound trailer weight), the tow vehicle needs to weigh 7500 pounds for a 3000 pound trailer.. My Dodge 4x4 is probably just over 5000 pounds..
If the trailer cant be more than 40% of the tow vehicle weight (to not need brakes for 3000 pound trailer weight), the tow vehicle needs to weigh 7500 pounds for a 3000 pound trailer.. My Dodge 4x4 is probably just over 5000 pounds..
That's a really good question. I don't know.Jim, I am probably missing something very obvious here, but given the valve needs to be undone to let the water out why does the air not just come out from under the rubber washer at the top of the valve stem. Is it that you need to make some sort of clamp arrangement to hold that rubber washer against the top of the tank?
Air doesn't seem to blow out of the top though. At least not enough to notice.
Maybe the fit is just good enough that not much air comes out.
The air pump volume must be so big that it doesn't matter.
Kinda funny, the first time I turned on the air pump, I put my finger on the outlet and could hardly feel any pressure. I was convinced that I had wasted my money, but then someone on the board here had said they did it with the same cheap 12 volt air mattress inflator, so next time I was on the water I tried it.
I haven't figured out how to tell when it's done.
You would think you would see bubbles around the boat but I haven't seen that. On the other hand, when I pull the boat out of the water, it's obvious then that the tank is empty!.
Jim
Oh, I agree. In fact if you look most states require brakes on trailers over 2000#. I guess the question is if they consider the trailer by itself or loaded. If it is loaded then almost anyone with a Mac, even the smaller ones, would be required to have brakes in most states.
I often wondered how MacGregor put the trailers on the road since they didn't seem to meet the legal requirements in most states. Since the bare trailer is under 2000# maybe they got around it that way.
There are other areas where these trailers are also not legal. One is that that they don't have the side marker lights by the fenders. They don't have the required center light bar at the back....
http://www.boatersoutlet.com/trailerlightguide.aspx
... There again maybe they got around this since the trailer itself is lighter and narrower than the load.
Regardless I would of added the second axle and disc brakes even if there would of been no law. We did tow to Canada and back 2 summers ago with the single axle and no brakes on the trailer, but I would of never tried that trip without the Suburban. Even then it wasn't really a safe thing to do.
If we were on the road by ourselves the problem would not be as bad, but we aren't. If someone trys a panic stop in a safe situation once I think they will see that they are in a precarious situation if someone pulls out of a side road in front of them or something else happens where they have to stop or slow quickly.
I wouldn't worry about the whole deal if it was just a couple miles from home to the ramp, but if you are taking trips put a second axle and brakes on and enjoy the trip,
Sum
I did the panic stop once because I failed to pay attention for just a second. Came close to rear ending a cop.
Hey I said in a "safe situation"
, I don't think that qualifies .I pull my teardrop trailer that weighs about 1700 lb. with my streetrod truck that has a Camaro front end with disc brakes and a camaro rearend with drum brakes. The truck stops better than anything I've ever driven still twice in about 60,000 miles the trailer has push the truck out into an intersection when the light changed at the last second and I got on the brakes hard (should of just driven through). I plan on adding brakes to that trailer also, but it has an odd-ball 2000# axle and brakes are hard to find for it.
Even with brakes now on the trailer I try and restrain myself to driving at 60-65 and leave room between me and other cars even if people keep filling the space. On the way to Florida we were going through Fort Worth on the interstate downtown at 5:30 and it was stop and go. I was sure someone was going to run into the outboard or back of the boat. I usually never worry about the outboard back there, but did then,
Sum
Our Endeavour 37
Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Our MacGregor S Pages
Mac-Venture Links
Got me fascinated Jim. Can't wait until the next time I have the boat in the water and try the air matress pump on it.
. I have not fiddled around with it so far as my boat has been kept on a trailer at the marina and they do the haul out - was more interested in seeing what sort of extra stress the water put on the trailer, but to be honest it didn't appear to make the springs sag any great amount extra. Mine are the origianl springs I think and they are very solid with 9mm thick leaves. I have just replaced the 60Ah battery with a 100Ah so no need to worry as much about the use of power by the airpump.PS: can't find the light bulb symbol but it has only just dawned on me that there is minimal space around that rod so probably not much room for air to escape??
Yea that's what I think too. Not much space for a big air leak.Got me fascinated Jim. Can't wait until the next time I have the boat in the water and try the air matress pump on it.
PS: can't find the light bulb symbol but it has only just dawned on me that there is minimal space around that rod so probably not much room for air to escape??
Another good reason to have the inflator on the boat is if you get stuck. Say your anchor in shallow water and you get blown onto an extra shallow spot and get stuck. You can dump the water ballast and make the boat 1200 lbs lighter. It might just be enough to get you unstuck?
Jim
Permit me to go outside the box on this one.
If I had a water ballast boat I would attach a flexible hose to the drain the same diameter or larger than the opening and long enough to run down the ramp 8' or so, and place the end in the water to prevent air from entering the drain hose. The siphoning effect would help draw the water out faster than any mattress pump and would not require climbing into the boat to operate the pump. I would see if I could find a rubber sleeve that would snuggly slip fit over the drain outlet for a quick and easy attachment.
I would caution though, that the tank be vented with a permanent check valve so that you do not create a vacuum that could collapse your tank if you forgot to vent.
If I had a water ballast boat I would attach a flexible hose to the drain the same diameter or larger than the opening and long enough to run down the ramp 8' or so, and place the end in the water to prevent air from entering the drain hose. The siphoning effect would help draw the water out faster than any mattress pump and would not require climbing into the boat to operate the pump. I would see if I could find a rubber sleeve that would snuggly slip fit over the drain outlet for a quick and easy attachment.
I would caution though, that the tank be vented with a permanent check valve so that you do not create a vacuum that could collapse your tank if you forgot to vent.
I've noticed that many new boat trailers don't meet the DOT requirements, either, based on the pics they post on their web sites. When I rebuilt my original Mac X trailer, I added an amber side marker with PC lens (180 deg. pattern) to the front fenders at 45 deg. to cover both side marker and front width requirements (rear width and side marker taken by 'over 80' tail lights), plus another side marker near the tongue that incorporates the required reflex reflector.*
I'm also in the process of building a mount to strap to the outboard lower unit (tilted all the way up) to put tail and brake lights in tailgating drivers' eyeballs, plus provide red side markers at the extreme rear. The prop is just shy of 7 feet from the end of the trailer, so I want some red light back there anyway. Lights close together are OK, since width markers are on the trailer tail lights, as well as the ID bar.
When I rewired the trailer, I used a junction box on the winch tower and wired a 4-flat car-end connector on a short pigtail, just for this purpose. The trailer is still totally legal with no boat on it. A cheap Harbor Freight LED 'under 80' tail light kit with harness (extended, though) completes it.
Not to distract from the brake discussion, which came about via the Mac Bump topic, though . . . :neutral:
*At 31 ft to the end of the OB, the trailer is technically required to have intermediate side markers (30 ft or more), so the DOT PC width markers at 45 deg. meet both forward width and side marker requirements. But regardless of the legal requirements, when driving at night in heavy traffic in pouring rain with road spray obscuring everything, you just can't have enough lights. Hopefully, nobody changes lanes into the trailer.
Mac Bump
You have the best mod ideas. It is so funny seeing that this stuff doesn't only happen to me. My technique is to grab the bow rail down low and shake the boat back and forth violently enough so the slack is taken up. Then crank it up and do it again, and again until the boat is tight.
This is my first year with the Tstatz,Sue? a 1977 V25. Having a blast. Newport last weekend in 20+. Narragansett Bay can get crankin!
You have quite the shop!! I am envious. A lot of time too!!
You have the best mod ideas. It is so funny seeing that this stuff doesn't only happen to me. My technique is to grab the bow rail down low and shake the boat back and forth violently enough so the slack is taken up. Then crank it up and do it again, and again until the boat is tight.
This is my first year with the Tstatz,Sue? a 1977 V25. Having a blast. Newport last weekend in 20+. Narragansett Bay can get crankin!
You have quite the shop!! I am envious. A lot of time too!!
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