A Firm Foundation

Bill1565 · Mar 14, 2012

Wow!! what a revelation.

Shoaldrafter · Mar 14, 2012

boat design

Roger,

Up until this time last year I was a lake sailor or canoe sailor.

But the coast was always there. I studied boats and designs and construction and what worked and what worked in weather and what worked in skinny water, etc.

The coast of the Carolinas offer lots of water but it is also skinny water. What works in skinny water and can also be used near shore?

You said, "frustrated on the ICW by that keel hanging down there, even though Strider’s isn’t very deep."

Sand bars and shoals abound in Carolina waters. After much study I decided that a full keel without a bite is safest and easiest to get off sandbars. Not too many boats were ever made in glass to this idea. And those that were often had deep draft.

Why a full keel? Because it can hit a sandbar that stops boat from going too far. Often you can get off sandbar by heeling boat and backing out. And a full keel without bite keeps most of boat and weight off sandbar.

So, your furstration was keeping you floating. Flat bottom boats slide up futher and then cannot be tilted. The working boats of coast such as skipjacks used the flat bottom and usually a board to deal with sailing.

Any new design should be trailer legal. That by its nature keeps boats small. I would point out that coastal working boats were wide. But, that limits the boat to Chessie to Georgia coast and Gulf Coast.

When thinking new boats, ask how much. A thirty foot glass boat properly made is expensive. That is why so many of us fix old boats that while not perfect, work.

Maybe now is the time to learn how to rebuild a diesel? Most likely you would need very few metal parts. Just a lot of seals and sealants. And a lot of scraping and sanding smooth the surfaces to be rejoined. Should keep you busy for a few months.

Just take a lot of pictures of before so you can put it back together.

If you decide to haul your boat, I recommend contacting:
Tom Cliston at lighthouseboatny@aol.com
I suspect about two grand.

Ed K

Roger Long said:
Just to repeat my favorite Sterling Hayden quote for the benefit of anyone who hasn’t read previous posts:

“[FONT=&quot]Every true voyage must rest on a firm foundation of financial uncertainty.[/FONT][FONT=&amp]”[/FONT]

I titled my first post about this engine problem because I have been thinking about the uncertainty as being about the cruising. I’ve been envisioning a red line on the bank balance gauge and, when the needle goes over the line, the cruising is over and I go back to life on shore. My needle was already well over the yellow line when this happened.

The way out of this for me is to realize that the voyage is life and life is the voyage which is what I think that wicked old sailor actually meant. I’m just going to shift the yellow and red lines around the dial to the same distance from destitution as I previously had them set from giving up sailing. That frees up enough money to put a brand new engine in the boat if it comes to that.

Life is uncertain anyway. A couple of blood platelets could clump together in the wrong spot and tomorrow this forum filled with posts about what a strange and interesting guy I was and how much you will all miss my writing.

Ironically, I was thinking about returning to shore life for a while for quite a bit before this happened. I used to love being alone on the boat and cruising alone. It’s like the famous Titanic joke though. A passenger says, “I asked for ice but this is ridiculous.” I’ve come to realize that I’m just not cut out for singlehanded cruising of this length and duration. I’m good for a lot more of it than most people but there are limits.

I’ve given a lot of my life to the sea. I find my attraction for rough water, waves, and big open spaces decreasing at about the same rate that my interest in waterways and shorelines sliding along close enough to see the wildlife and appreciate the nature of the communities and life on shore is increasing. The fact that Barbara would be much more inclined to join me for this kind of cruising is a pretty significant issue.

The builder of my Yawldory design has been after me to design the perfect ICW cruiser which would also be a great boat for the Great Loop, the canals in Canada, and all sorts of interesting places. I swore I would never design another boat but the wheels are turning in my mind.

I really want a pilothouse and I found myself constantly frustrated on the ICW by that keel hanging down there, even though Strider’s isn’t very deep. There are so many beautiful places that I just couldn’t reach or explore.

I’ve planned my whole life around the idea that I would never sell this boat but I’m beginning to conceive of it as being possible for the first time.

kloudie1 · Mar 14, 2012

Roger, the guy (Kenneth Grahame) said that messing around boats is fun.. he really didn't make the distinction between power (ICW cruiser) or sail... All are fine to mess with ! Your experience and wisdom will carry the day.

Ian McColgin · Mar 14, 2012

An ICW cruiser. Cool thought. Would she have sails? Looking at high tabernackles like the Johnsons did on their ketch Yankee? Keep us on this.

Bill1565 · Mar 15, 2012

Great looking hull. Would be ideal for SW florida. My wife lusts after a Pilgrim 40 but it draws 4 feet.

sailormanbigd · Mar 15, 2012

wow is me

Hi Roger, can feel your pain and mood in your writtings. Lonely, despaired, indecisive, etc. So many people should be so lucky as you! Not to downplay your current situation but you are still "out there" doing it but now you've come upon a snag. Similar to running hard aground you feel helpless and stuck. I doubt if your engine problem is serious enough to have to repower just relax and get someone competant to check it out. WHen the mech says its all fixed- a blown seal or sucked up water from the exhaust or something similarly noncatasrophic then it will feel like comming off the grounding. Relief, lived through another event. After its back up and running, then you can reevaluate your plans. Besides you could use human interaction from the mechanic and yard people and everyone else you come to meet while getting it fixed.
In the future you might want to consider "sailing" as primary locomotion and use engine for aux as it is intended. Despite haveing a purpose built icw motor driven machine, its not sailing! I have a power boat and get out on the gulf alot with it, but my heart is empty with the longing for the feeling that only comes from sails pulling in a breeze! Not the same as being out there in a power boat. Yes, sailing requires an almost open itinerary and the mindset to not be in a hurry. But i like it that way. Get her fixed, keep her for all eternity and yes a clump of platelets and fibrin can change the whole picture foreverat any moment. so, stay loose and light minded, get with some people, slow down and enjoy the trip, not the destination, maybe get a crew person to venture along for companionship and relief from the wheel. So you can invole yourself in the beauty of your environment. Good luck, and best wishes for your future. Patrick

rbgarr · Mar 15, 2012

Roger,
The red cruiser in photo #1 here is an Atkin tunnel drive, smaller than Gerr's Summer Kyle (maybe too much smaller). Alex Hadden will tell you all about it: http://maineboats.usharbors.com/boat-listing/hadden-boat-company

Good luck with the engine issues.

Ian McColgin · Mar 15, 2012

The watercloset access to the prop is a very fine idea and quite common in Europe. Like the controlable pitch prop, not so common here. To work even in calm water you need the sides of the watercloset coming up a foot over water level, so leaning down into it to get at the prop means a long reach and quite likely head under water, so a neoprene hood, a mask and a snorkle are also needed tools, but it still beats diving in the cold and the dark.

G'luck

jassprag · Mar 15, 2012

How about a tunnel drive? should be able to put a guard around the prop to keep things out of it.

Shoaldrafter · Mar 15, 2012

sail boat already proto typed

Roger,

Find picture of 27 foot shallow draft sailboat with deck stepped mast and system to raise and lower for bridges, etc. The picture is of a proto type never finished. Builder is 85 year old boat builder who is still around and would like financing and partner.

If you want to see hull in picture you would have to back track to North Carolina on the Albamarle River.

Ed K

Shoaldrafter · Mar 16, 2012

recent experience

Roger,

more comments ... keep in mind any design must be what we call seaworthy... any design must handle your recent experience on AICW with winds and fetch. This is common problem on coastal sailing. You do not have to sail from Maine to Florida and back to experience it. That is why after having seen similar to what you saw, I backed off on using lake shallow water boat and got design proven to handle situation.

May I refer you to what is referred to as Norwegian design by Colin Archer, Wm. Atlkins, Wm. Crealock, et. al:

see: http://www.ask.com/wiki/Colin_Archer?qsrc=3044

see: http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Articles/MacNaughton/index.html

see: http://bluewaterboats.org/westsail-32/

see: http://www.pacificseacraft.com/html/ps34.html

While you may now think it is over kill, think back to last week and needing three anchors...

Think of a boat to safely get thru such stuff...

Ed K

Roger Long said:
Just to repeat my favorite Sterling Hayden quote for the benefit of anyone who hasn’t read previous posts:

“[FONT=&quot]Every true voyage must rest on a firm foundation of financial uncertainty.[/FONT][FONT=&amp]”[/FONT]

I titled my first post about this engine problem "The End of the Voyage" because I have been thinking about the uncertainty as being about the cruising. I’ve been envisioning a red line on the bank balance gauge and, when the needle goes over the line, the cruising is over and I go back to life on shore. My needle was already well over the yellow line when this happened.

The way out of this for me is to realize that the voyage is life and life is the voyage which is what I think that wicked old sailor actually meant. I’m just going to shift the yellow and red lines around the dial to the same distance from destitution as I previously had them set from giving up sailing. That frees up enough money to put a brand new engine in the boat if it comes to that.

Life is uncertain anyway. A couple of blood platelets could clump together in the wrong spot and tomorrow this forum filled with posts about what a strange and interesting guy I was and how much you will all miss my writing.

Ironically, I was thinking about returning to shore life for a while for quite a bit before this happened. I used to love being alone on the boat and cruising alone. It’s like the famous Titanic joke though. A passenger says, “I asked for ice but this is ridiculous.” I’ve come to realize that I’m just not cut out for singlehanded cruising of this length and duration. I’m good for a lot more of it than most people but there are limits.

I’ve given a lot of my life to the sea. I find my attraction for rough water, waves, and big open spaces decreasing at about the same rate that my interest in waterways and shorelines sliding along close enough to see the wildlife and appreciate the nature of the communities and life on shore is increasing. The fact that Barbara would be much more inclined to join me for this kind of cruising is a pretty significant issue.

The builder of my Yawldory design has been after me to design the perfect ICW cruiser which would also be a great boat for the Great Loop, the canals in Canada, and all sorts of interesting places. I swore I would never design another boat but the wheels are turning in my mind.

I really want a pilothouse and I found myself constantly frustrated on the ICW by that keel hanging down there, even though Strider’s isn’t very deep. There are so many beautiful places that I just couldn’t reach or explore.

I’ve planned my whole life around the idea that I would never sell this boat but I’m beginning to conceive of it as being possible for the first time.

Ron20324 · Mar 16, 2012

Forgive them Roger, for they know not what they do, as the saying goes. Best wishes, and we are still in Annapolis for you. SOS will be in Galesville at Pirates Cove again on April 21-22.

Shoaldrafter · Mar 16, 2012

so we are waiting...

But I did not see one with three anchors?

Ed K

Roger Long said:
Thank you. This retired naval architect appreciates your input.

http://www.cruisingonstrider.us/Boats.htm

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/index.html

CarlN · Mar 17, 2012

A sailboat for coastal cruising hasn't been a practical choice since they got that screw propeller thingee figured out. If "practical" is your goal, a motorhome - maybe with that pretty beach dory design of yours on a trailer - is the answer.

And, a sailboat for an older sailor on the ICW is a much more interesting design challenge than another shoal draft power boat.

Here's what I'd want:

3' 6" - 4' 0" draft. Less than this just lets you go places with more bugs at the cost of directional stability in a cross wind/sea.

Beam - A wide LWL/Beam ratio approaching 3 with beam carried well aft for accommodations. More stability at anchor and under sail. Less length to pay for at docks and the travelift. Less stern squat under power. A fine forward third for the occasional punching into seas and relatively flat at the transom.

Pilothouse - A proper and comfortable inside helm. Also, a good size settee with large table from which you look out proper height windows.

Sail - A rig and underbody optimized for "what a great sail!" reaching. Motorsailing can also cut fuel use in half. I'd have one set of furler mounted sails sized for 10-25 knots of wind. In all other conditions (upwind, straight downwind, drifter, heavy air) you motor or motorsail. Mainsail easily set as anti-roll sail in all conditions. Mast 40'-50'.

Engines - Expensive but I'd install two small engines. Efficient motorsail under one engine. Redundancy makes for worry free trips. Great handling when docking. Sized for displacement speeds.

Keel - Long thin keel. Maybe twin bilge keels to push pot lines away from twin props. Boat would dry out level.

Dinghy - Crane for dinghy (gin pole or boom) for long term storage and rougher passage. Stern boarding platform with handhold for easy entry exit from dinghy.

Don't know how one would package this into something that looks halfway decent....

Carl

sinnettc · Mar 19, 2012

Seems like you're on the right track there, Roger. My dad did the run down the ICW and back several times from MDI in his Pearson 34. IIRC 4' or 4'6 draft with the cb up, 6 or 8 with it down. The had it up the whole time. He said he rubbed the muck a few times but I don't recall that they got stuck anywhere.

A Firm Foundation

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Attachments

.

Attachments

.

.

.

.

.

.