A Definitive Answer (YANMAR Gear Position)

[Maine Sail]

Definitive answer from Yanmar on gear position while sailing..


Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:

All Sailboat Engines

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while sailing.

If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for additional information.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer Support representative.






The guy from Yanmar admitted that prior to 2008 they did not take much of a position either way in regards to reverse or neutral, hence the constant confusion on the forums when talking about Yanmar's.

This info does NOT apply to other engine makers!

 

[kloudie1]

Well no wonder that the transmissions are only lasting 30-50 years.. we've been locking them !
Seriously, I wonder what parts they determined would be "internally damaged" while locked in revese?? Fretting on gear faces or bearings maybe from minute vibes from turbulence around the locked prop?? I dunno..

 

[Roger Long]

Did you ask if this applies only to current models or to engines like my QM with the Hurth where the manual for both engine and gear say to put it in reverse while sailing?

 

[Maine Sail]

Did you ask if this applies only to current models or to engines like my QM with the Hurth where the manual for both engine and gear say to put it in reverse while sailing?

Apparently does not apply to Hurth just Kanzaki and non Hurth gear boxes. Of course on their larger engines with hydraulic gear boxes this also does not apply.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Can anyone explain how a transmission locked can be prone to more damage than one constantly in motion when free-wheeling? I suspect I may not be the only one who thinks this is counter-intuitive and would really like to know the basis for their recommendation which on it's face sounds like a CYA position.

 

[sailingdog]

Thanks for the update. Doesn't apply to me though.

 

[Ross]

This is a "should I wear a belt or suspenders"? type question. IT doesn't matter but people who are unable to do their own thinking want an answer. So they get an answer and then question the choice. Your mother-in-law buys two neckties for your birthday, you wear one and she wants to know what was wrong with the other one.

 

[woodster]

This is a "should I wear a belt or suspenders"? type question. IT doesn't matter but people who are unable to do their own thinking want an answer. So they get an answer and then question the choice. Your mother-in-law buys two neckties for your birthday, you wear one and she wants to know what was wrong with the other one.

gotta love them mother- in- laws

 

[chuckwayne]

Thanks, Maine Sail! It's great to (hopefully) end the great debate with the official word from Yanmar!

 

[Benny]

Finally, we have an answer. It fits well with the proven results that a freewheeling prop produces less drag than a locked one. But like Kloudie says any damage is probably insignificant as transmissions last 30-50 years.

 

[Maine Sail]

Can anyone explain how a transmission locked can be prone to more damage than one constantly in motion when free-wheeling? I suspect I may not be the only one who thinks this is counter-intuitive and would really like to know the basis for their recommendation which on it's face sounds like a CYA position.

Don,

It is no secret that many Kanzaki's do not like to come out of reverse after being locked. They used to advise just starting the engine in reverse then shifting to neutral. Yanmar used to say reverse or freewheeling, years ago, but due to damage to the cones they have rather strongly changed their tune. This was a TSB sent to dealers. They did not mince words.

There is no doubt they examined this, as freewheeling can also cause wear, but wear and tear they find less bad than locking it in reverse.

 

[DougM]

I read that advisory. and it seems a little ambiguous in that it spells out "saildrives". The jury is still out on this one.

I'm still not convinced that I should spend the money for any form of 'shaft lock' and I don't have a folding or feathering prop.

I agree that getting out of reverse and into neutral is a problem, but I don't see where locking the transmission in reverse is going to cause serious harm. Personally, the noise and vibration of the freewheeling prop is more of an aggravation.

 

[Rick D]

Starting In Reverse

At the advice of Yanmar, I have always started my engine in reverse before shifting into forward in the three I have owned. It doesn't apply now that I have a folding prop. It was sometimes very difficult to shift out of reverse if I had any way on.

 

[Maine Sail]

I read that advisory. and it seems a little ambiguous in that it spells out "saildrives". The jury is still out on this one.

Doug,

The part about saildrives is a separate TSB as in:

"Please also refer to Marine service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for additional information."

I think key wording is this:

"Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:

All Sailboat Engines"



Also they do not use words like "suggests", "may" or "might" they use and chose words like "requires", "must" and "will" these words are never chosen lightly in the world of manufacturing.

Yanmar requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result.



After having spent nearly twenty minutes discussing this I tend to believe Yanmar. He talked of lots of gear box problems related to locking the cones in reverse. Apparently the cones when locked can vibrate or chatter against each other, causing wear to the cone surfaces, which then leads to slipping, which then leads to a re-built gear box (I am paraphrasing here). For a while they said it was okay but as the numbers of issues started growing they adamantly changed their requirement.

Your boat, you can obviously do what you want and ignore Yanmar's advice. I don't have a Yanmar so could care less either way but if I did have one it would spin or have a shaft lock installed.

I don't read that TSB as "jury still out" it seems pretty cut and dry "ALL SAILBOAT ENGINES"..

Just bringing this to your attention that's all....

 

[Aussie]

Good

HI, this is my first reply to many many threads that I have read and enjoyed from this site. As a Marine Mechanic I am in awe that Yanmar came out and QUALIFIED what their recommendation is and what they require for waranty to be recognised on their tranmissions. TAKE NOTE that as Maine Sail said they have Qualified what their position is, and what, you still want to argue, I know from Experience that for Yanmar to ALLOW for it to be put in writing, Bloody do it, they might actually know what they are talking about as they MAKE them. If you have noise and vibration from your prop shaft turning, I know from experience, it is another problem, NOT the gearboxes freewheeling. If you believe that you need your prop shaft stationary, then fix a shaft brake and stop bitching. Happy Boating and smile you don't know how long you have, so enjoy.

 

[Aussie]

PS

I for one would not have a prerequisite to start my engine in gear so I can have my shaft stationary, where is the GOOD seamanship in that, you MIGHT just have a MOB behind you and you start the engine in gear! YEH RIGHT.

 

[JustDucky]

Thanks for the report. I have always put it in reverse to sail and have had difficulty getting it into neutral to start the engine. This news will make the process much easier with some minor vibration while sailing. Now I just have to remember it.

 

[DougM]

Thanks Maine Sail...

Its hard to teach and old dog new tricks. I guess there are a lot of us who have to forget everything we were ever told about this in the past.

 

[cygnussailor]

I have an Auto-Prop. I have always put my transmission in forward to lock it. This is on the advice of Auto-Prop, not Yanmar. I manually overrode the neutral start switch, on the advice of Torresen Marine, so that I could start my engine in forward. This has worked well for years now. I guess I'm not about to change, as the Auto-Prop is very annoying when it is allowed to spin.

Gary Harklins

 

[Grizz]

Folding Prop & a Yanmar

I agree w/ the bloke from Down Under: Yanmar wouldn't have done this w/o a darn good reason and the 'no wiggle room' verbiage (shall, must, required, etc.) points to that as well.

Soooo, I guess from now on, even though I've got a folding prop, it's 'Neutral and snug the Brake' instead of the previous tried and true method of 'engine off, put her in reverse and enjoy the sailing experience'.

Small change = not a big deal IMHO.