All great points and thank you for them. I grew up boating and spent a significant amount of time on powerboats, as far as experience on sailboats, I've been sailing for about two years now around the ICW on my full keel Halman 20. This boat will definitely be a stepping stone for me but I feel as though I am ready for it. My buddy does have a good amount of sailing experience on, he owned and lived on a 31' sailboat for a little while and sailed it all around the Florida coast so that will be helpful. Part of the reason I plan on starting off going down the ICW is to get a good feeling for the boat and make sure everything is going smooth and comfortable, if I have any concerns at all, I will continue on down the ICW to my destination. I appreciate everyone's advice on the reality of the journey, it's certainly not something to down play and I am definitely taking everyone's points and advice into account.
Get a survey first. Our survey on our '77 Cherubini 27 footer clearly outlined our maintenance plan for the coming few years. Luckily, none of the issues were so serious that we couldn't sail our boat two days from Sandusky to our home port, Mentor on Lake Erie. As we pulled into the port of our overnight stay in Lorrain, the diesel engine died. We anchored, and the marina was nice enough to come out and tow us to a dock. Then we scheduled the local mechanic to fix the fuel line leak that caused the failure, and took taxi back to Sandusky and drove home until the fix was done. Then we drove back to Lorrain to finish the delivery to Mentor a week later.
My only other comment is that Hunters from the late 70's had very heavy fiberglass layups. So your hull is probably OK or better. But the decks and cabin bulkheads are a different matter. The surveyor's moisture meter will help you understand how much work (if any) there is. Window leaks are a particular issue on these models. When I rebedded the windows some 5 years after we got the boat, much of the wood between the two layers of fiberglass around the windows was simply gone!
Fair winds and following seas!
My only other comment is that Hunters from the late 70's had very heavy fiberglass layups. So your hull is probably OK or better. But the decks and cabin bulkheads are a different matter. The surveyor's moisture meter will help you understand how much work (if any) there is. Window leaks are a particular issue on these models. When I rebedded the windows some 5 years after we got the boat, much of the wood between the two layers of fiberglass around the windows was simply gone!
Fair winds and following seas!
David is almost certainly right about getting a survey. So, this is not a counterpoint, really.
But, I don't think I, personally, would bother at this stage. Note, I said "I". Here's my reasoning:
I already know there are problems with the boat. I just don't know the extent, yet. I would not accept the boat if I were not prepared to do some pretty major work. Nothing in that survey is going to change my mind about the boat. I've already committed to a project. I didn't get a boat, I got a project that will hopefully become a boat.
What I really want to know is what do I need to do transport it to a place where I can take my time and go over it more thoroughly. I can make that evaluation myself pretty well. Likely, I would have a mechanic take a took, since I know diesel engines well enough to do my own routine maintenance and fix obvious stuff, but it would make me feel better for someone smarter than me to tell me what I do and do not need to worry about with the boat's power. Most surveyors can't (or won't) provide this information.
Without a doubt, a good survey will give you a good project list and a sense of what is highest priority. And, most surveys (that I have seen) are good. No one should interpret my post as discouraging getting a survey done. Just offering a perspective on the timing of that survey, in this case.
But ... the rub here is insurance. You might be forced into a certain sequence of actions by insurance and/or the requirements thereof.
But, I don't think I, personally, would bother at this stage. Note, I said "I". Here's my reasoning:
I already know there are problems with the boat. I just don't know the extent, yet. I would not accept the boat if I were not prepared to do some pretty major work. Nothing in that survey is going to change my mind about the boat. I've already committed to a project. I didn't get a boat, I got a project that will hopefully become a boat.
What I really want to know is what do I need to do transport it to a place where I can take my time and go over it more thoroughly. I can make that evaluation myself pretty well. Likely, I would have a mechanic take a took, since I know diesel engines well enough to do my own routine maintenance and fix obvious stuff, but it would make me feel better for someone smarter than me to tell me what I do and do not need to worry about with the boat's power. Most surveyors can't (or won't) provide this information.
Without a doubt, a good survey will give you a good project list and a sense of what is highest priority. And, most surveys (that I have seen) are good. No one should interpret my post as discouraging getting a survey done. Just offering a perspective on the timing of that survey, in this case.
But ... the rub here is insurance. You might be forced into a certain sequence of actions by insurance and/or the requirements thereof.
Good luck. Post some photos, even though we can all look up a 1979 Hunter 33, it helps to have your photos.
Attachments
Others have offered good advice. The part of your plan I copied in red is something that should also be discussed. I understand you're not asking for advice about your plan -- but VA Beach to Canaveral is a long journey, mostly against prevailing winds (you can avoid the Gulf Stream) and more than a "shake down" cruise. You should have done those things by the time you are ready to get her home.
Regardless of whether you go inside (ICW) or outside, the engine, running gear and standing rigging need to be in good shape. You should have good ground tackle for anchoring in strong winds/currents and good communications/safety gear.
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Make sure you have tow insurance that will handle towing from the distance you are anticipating to be offshore. I'd suggest on sticking to the ICW until you have full confidence in the boat and the crew. When you get ready for planning the journey we'll be happy to offer more advice.
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Excellent point about having those things done before I take off, I kind of worded my previous message wrong. I will take as much time as necessary to make absolutely certain she is safe for the journey. Once in FL I will focus more on cosmetics and systems not related to safety (fridge, stove, ect...) After hearing from everyone, I'll not rule out taking the ICW the whole way. I'll see how everything is going and feeling on the first part of the trip and if I'm not fully confident in going offshore then ill stick to the ICW.
@Bob1992 happy to read that. I think @dLj ’s post about the FB groups and Bob423 is outstanding advice, and part of your home prep should be to download and activate the Aqua Maps app and install the USACE overlays, ActiveCaptain markers, Waterway Guide notations, and Bob’s long tracks. All of those are free plugins but you need the paid version of the app to load them. It’s inexpensive. Also learn the app. It’s as good or better than Navionics, IMHO.
There’s also a FB group called Navigating Inlets of the East Coast USA you might find helpful.
Back to the boat - make a note that part of your survey should include a careful steering system inspection. In a sailboat you can lose power or sails, but you’re SOL if you lose steering control. If the boat has hydraulic or cable controlled steering make sure you have an emergency tiller aboard and try it out as a test (I’ve had to use one when we lost steering due to cable chafe 40 miles off Cape Fear). Part of the inspection should include someone operating the wheel port and stbd while the inspector is below watching all the cables and chains and gears and sheaves move. A static inspection might not detect everything.
There’s also a FB group called Navigating Inlets of the East Coast USA you might find helpful.
Back to the boat - make a note that part of your survey should include a careful steering system inspection. In a sailboat you can lose power or sails, but you’re SOL if you lose steering control. If the boat has hydraulic or cable controlled steering make sure you have an emergency tiller aboard and try it out as a test (I’ve had to use one when we lost steering due to cable chafe 40 miles off Cape Fear). Part of the inspection should include someone operating the wheel port and stbd while the inspector is below watching all the cables and chains and gears and sheaves move. A static inspection might not detect everything.
It might not be cost-prohibitive to have her trucked down. I actually have no idea, but I would look into it - just to know your options.
... in fact, I would also look at buying a trailer for her. If you had your own trailer, you could move her and park her wherever you wanted, giving you a lot of flexibility for getting the work done. Not really a "trailerable" boat, but she can be trailered, which could be a good way to keep her while working on her. However, trailers are expensive, but you could sell the trailer when you're done.
Hmm, not seeing where I posted here about the above, but I did do a post over on Cruisers and Sailors about the ICW, I'll copy it here.
If you do want to do the ICW, even in parts, I'd recommend you down load the Bob423 Long tracks. Here's a link:
https://bobicw.blogspot.com/p/bob423...Fd3ad-f7ZbXBfw
These are excellent as they are continuously updated in almost real time.
There is a Facebook group called ICW Cruising Guide by Bob423 - it is excellent. You can ask questions and folks that are running the ICW all the time will answer and give advice. It's actually very good.
In my opinion using the ICW is really for taking a leisurely trip, not for making time. It's a great place to slowly drive (not sail) down the coast enjoying the many inlets, bays, small towns, etc. - more of a "go slow and enjoy".... If I were ever to do it again, I'd likely do it in a trawler and have an automated navigation system set up to follow a route. I'd also want to have a lot of time to enjoy. There are a lot of places to explore depending upon where you are.
I only ran a short distance up the ICW and as I didn't have the luxury of time, I jumped back out and went off-shore.
dj
On the ICW plan on about 50 sm a day. Running at night can be done, but it is slow and tedious and marks are not lit in many areas. My best day this year was about 80 sm from Darby Creek near Belhaven to Beaufort. I was beat when I got to a dock.
The big advantage to the ICW vs Offshore is relative immunity from weather. The time you wait for a favorable forecast might be better spent making progress on the ICW. This year I was able to make a few long hops outside because the tides and and winds were with me. A couple of years ago in those same areas the tides and winds were against me so I did the inside route.
The big advantage to the ICW vs Offshore is relative immunity from weather. The time you wait for a favorable forecast might be better spent making progress on the ICW. This year I was able to make a few long hops outside because the tides and and winds were with me. A couple of years ago in those same areas the tides and winds were against me so I did the inside route.
The one bridge that is most notable for this is the one over the Alligator River in NC. Leaving Norfolk, it takes 2 days to get there. I'm on mile 991 of the ICW and this is the only bridge that I can recall that has the wind limitation. The swing bridges are the ones most likely to have limitations.
Bridges do breakdown or are closed for various reasons including maintenance. Subscribe to Waterway Guide Alerts to get notifications. Waterway Guide also has information on each bridge not the ICW.
The Ben Sawyer bridge near Charleston closes at 25 kts. What a pain that was....
Most people have seen this video, or something like it. I wouldn't do this if the bridge was closed for high winds, but then again, I probably wouldn't do it if I didn't have to anyway. I mean, theoretically, it isn't that big a deal. It just feels wrong.
1) Why is he giving it away and not selling it (even at a family discount price??)
2) Get a survey. Better to spend $1500 on out of water survey and short haul than dump $15 000-$25 000 in repairs
3) When were the zincs last changed? If more than 12 months, there's a good chance expensive metals are corroded:
- engine
- shaft strut
- propeller
- engine heat exchanger
..... those could add up to some serious $$$.... a new exhaust manifold and heat exchanger for example is about $3000. If the engine is affected, it may not be worth to take it.... cost to install an engine for that boat size will be about USD20 000.
4) when was it last used regularly? More than 3 years ago, if so, expect that pumps, refrigeration, etc.... will have a very short life if they work.... plan to refit those in the 1st year.
5) get a standing rigging and mast inspection.... a new mast and rigging would be around $40 000.
6) does the current owner have insurance? If no, why not?
7) any electronics over 10 years old? plan on replacing them all.... it's not just the electronics, it's all the connections in which corrosion jumps in (especially if it's the older style networks with crimps, exposed connectors compared to today's NMEA2000/ STNG sealed connectors)
8) moorage.... do you have a place to keep it?
9) can YOU get insurance with YOUR experience on that boat? that could be a showstopper.... what insurance does your marina require?
10) the surveyor will give you a punch list.... must fix and should fix. Your insurer will require you repair the must fix in 30 days. Plan to spend at least double whatever estimates the boat yard gave you for the "must fix".
11) were the spare sales measured, cut and tested on THAT boat? If the owner doesn't know, have a rigger test them out, they may require adjustments (more $$$).
12) blister and osmosis.... I can guarantee you that you will have blisters and osmosis, unless the hull was redone in the last 10 years. Cost for a yard to repair and remediate can be $7000 - $16 000 depending on the extent of the damage to the gel coat.
13) what condition is the rudder in? rudder shaft? rudder packing ? this stuff often gets missed on surveys...
14) is the boat's electrical and plumbing original? If yes, plan on redoing it all.
15) do all the seacock work? Ie: no water flow when closed, do they close, do they open? are they corroded?
16) Is there any soft spots on the deck or cabin top? any leaky windows? If you have leaky windows, you have wood rot in the topside core....
17) when were the lifelines last replaced? anchor chain?
Haul out, hull survey, rigging survey, engine survey you're looking at about $1500-$2500 depending on where you do it... Maybe get the "donor" to cover these and reimburse him if you take it? If they decide to sell, it helps to have a recent survey on hand.
Like old cars, boats don't like to sit.... everything will break seemingly all at once... It's an old production plastic boat, forget about cosmetics, that battle will be lost before you start! Focus on 1) safety 2) reliability 3) functional extras (LED lights, refrigeration, etc... 4) cosmetics
Boating is awesome.... except for the pocket book
2) Get a survey. Better to spend $1500 on out of water survey and short haul than dump $15 000-$25 000 in repairs
3) When were the zincs last changed? If more than 12 months, there's a good chance expensive metals are corroded:
- engine
- shaft strut
- propeller
- engine heat exchanger
..... those could add up to some serious $$$.... a new exhaust manifold and heat exchanger for example is about $3000. If the engine is affected, it may not be worth to take it.... cost to install an engine for that boat size will be about USD20 000.
4) when was it last used regularly? More than 3 years ago, if so, expect that pumps, refrigeration, etc.... will have a very short life if they work.... plan to refit those in the 1st year.
5) get a standing rigging and mast inspection.... a new mast and rigging would be around $40 000.
6) does the current owner have insurance? If no, why not?
7) any electronics over 10 years old? plan on replacing them all.... it's not just the electronics, it's all the connections in which corrosion jumps in (especially if it's the older style networks with crimps, exposed connectors compared to today's NMEA2000/ STNG sealed connectors)
8) moorage.... do you have a place to keep it?
9) can YOU get insurance with YOUR experience on that boat? that could be a showstopper.... what insurance does your marina require?
10) the surveyor will give you a punch list.... must fix and should fix. Your insurer will require you repair the must fix in 30 days. Plan to spend at least double whatever estimates the boat yard gave you for the "must fix".
11) were the spare sales measured, cut and tested on THAT boat? If the owner doesn't know, have a rigger test them out, they may require adjustments (more $$$).
12) blister and osmosis.... I can guarantee you that you will have blisters and osmosis, unless the hull was redone in the last 10 years. Cost for a yard to repair and remediate can be $7000 - $16 000 depending on the extent of the damage to the gel coat.
13) what condition is the rudder in? rudder shaft? rudder packing ? this stuff often gets missed on surveys...
14) is the boat's electrical and plumbing original? If yes, plan on redoing it all.
15) do all the seacock work? Ie: no water flow when closed, do they close, do they open? are they corroded?
16) Is there any soft spots on the deck or cabin top? any leaky windows? If you have leaky windows, you have wood rot in the topside core....
17) when were the lifelines last replaced? anchor chain?
Haul out, hull survey, rigging survey, engine survey you're looking at about $1500-$2500 depending on where you do it... Maybe get the "donor" to cover these and reimburse him if you take it? If they decide to sell, it helps to have a recent survey on hand.
Like old cars, boats don't like to sit.... everything will break seemingly all at once... It's an old production plastic boat, forget about cosmetics, that battle will be lost before you start! Focus on 1) safety 2) reliability 3) functional extras (LED lights, refrigeration, etc... 4) cosmetics
Boating is awesome.... except for the pocket book
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