6 to 9-ft seas @ 7 sec?

justsomeguy · Apr 2, 2020

Sea anchor?

dlochner · Apr 2, 2020

Are you sailing on the Great Lakes? Those conditions are not unusual.

Depending on the wind speed, reef. You will need sufficient power to climb the waves. Also fall off a little. Coming down the back side will be softer if you are at 45° to 60° off the waves. The boat also makes a big difference. If the hull form is more of a V it will ride easier than if the hull has a flatter bottom.

Also, make sure your hatches are well sealed, it is likely the boat will think it is a submarine at times, as it punches through some of the waves. Likewise make sure everything below decks is secured or it will end up on the cabin sole.

Back in the day we raced in conditions like that, sitting on the rail looking down at the trough some 15 feet below you is a bit disconcerting.

jon hansen · Apr 2, 2020

number three jib and mizzen (jib&jigger), drive into it under sail. never in 46 seasons have i had blue water over the spoon bow of my alden, lots of flotation in my bow with nice deep V. no. 3 and mizzen built to withstand up to 60 knts of wind.

properly shaped sails, no dodger, no bimini, no radar, .... low drag

in a race with the crew on the rail prolly have the no. 2 up (140%) built to withstand up to 60 knts of wind also

justsomeguy · Apr 2, 2020

Kings Gambit said:
wonder how much the boat would "yaw" at sea anchor, potentially exposing its beam to the seas every few minutes.

Depends on current/wind/waves cooperating, I guess.
And a lot of other variables can apply, such as get-there-itis. You wrote of limited sea room, 100 NM or so, so depending on your drifting speed...

jon hansen · Apr 2, 2020

king's, you must remember that i do not sail short handed or single handed. i never use an auto pilot while under sail. like all options to set one's boat up, i choose to be able to sail like this. i have loads of skilled crew that sail with me all the time.

dlochner · Apr 2, 2020

Kings Gambit said:
No. But I recognize that the conditions are not especially rare in venues where the wind can blow hard, and does. It's doing something similar even now off Las Puntas (Conception and Arguello). It's just, how best to handle it over a few to several hr. The boat would need to endure a bit of pounding and twisting; and "submerging", as you say.

The thing is to slow down to reduce the pounding. You need enough power to climb waves, but not so much that you shoot off the top of them.

This is also not the time to turn the helm over to the AP. Steer through the waves, fall off a little going up the wave, come up a little going down.

jon hansen · Apr 2, 2020

i never get pounding, twisting, submerging, ........

Aeolus "strong like bull"

dlochner · Apr 2, 2020

Kings Gambit said:
I was thinking skipper and Admiral only for this kind of encounter. With a practiced crew and well-found sea vessel, the world appears a little more forgiving!!

It's only scary the first time.

dlochner · Apr 2, 2020

Kings Gambit said:
So, what I'm reading is trim the boat for slow (e.g., minimum power) up-wind progress (i.e., more-or-less toward destination) under sail, with highly attentive helming, or perhaps lay to a sea anchor. What about fore-reaching (nearly hove-to) to await better conditions?

I think it depends, mostly on the winds. If the wind is in the 25-30 knots, I don't think it is necessary unless the crew is really fatigued. When winds start going above 30, then perhaps.

My experience in these conditions is once you get a feel for the wave pattern and wind, it gets much easier. There is a rhythm and you fall into it and begin to relax. It is the tension and apprehension that is most exhausting.

PaulK · Apr 2, 2020

You don’t say which way the wind is blowing or which way you’re trying to go. Racing, we’ve had beating conditions like this going to Bermuda and on overnight races. We put in a reef if it is blowing hard and keep going. It is harder to get guys to sit on the rail when it is cold, dark and raining than when it is warmer and sunnier. Cruising downwind once we got a blow that took us from Harpswell, ME to Southport CT in two days, mostly under just a reefed main. We entered the Cape Cod Canal doing 10.5 knots. A lot of what you do depends on the situation.

DayDreamer41 · Apr 2, 2020

What direction is the wind relative to the course resulting in what point of sail?

Edit-- I type to slow

jssailem · Apr 2, 2020

The assumption is that with 2-9ft seas there is also wind.

We all have our strategies for dealing with weather.

Your Santa Ana winds are usually East to West. Which means as you close on the coast the sea will flatten, but the wind will stay strong. Off shore 100nm is plenty of fetch to whip up a sizable chop (your 6-9ft 7sec waves)

If you are going to head for port, then you need to set the boat up with enough power to get through the wave crests and not so much as to crash into the bottom of the trough. I would first try to do this with sail trim. Reef/Twist/Ease are my starters. Reef to reduce the volume of sail. Twist the tops to spill some of the force off the rig and to lower the drive force to the lower half of the rig, also letting the boat sit flatter (<15 degrees) in the water (easier to ride over the waves). Ease by adjusting the main or steering the helm to power up the wave and slow down on the back side.

No AP for me during such weather. I am on watch and adjusting the helm to keep the boat balanced and powered. If conditions call for it (i.e. when in the trough there is a wind shadow and I cannot maintain speed to climb the next wave, then I’ll fire up the engine).

If conditions worsen, daylight is disappearing, then I would choose to keep my distance from shore and heave-to. In such trim I would expect to drift down wind at 1-2 nm an hour. 2 hour watches with wake the skipper if any thing changes. All lights on, AIS and Radar working with 2 mile alarm. Other ideas would be to run before the wind - no sails and long warps tied to the stern dragging behind the boat slow the speed down the waves.

In your case KG, if the wind is from the west, then it is likely worse than 6-9 feet (dependent on the wind speed) because you have sea swell in addition to wind wave. I would likely want to stay at sea if it was real bad. As you approach shore the waves will get bigger and breaking. I'd only want to attempt that under power all sails put away and the boat sealed up.

My concern would be getting pooped by a breaking wave. As they come in and get bigger the closer you get to shore and more dangerous it can get.

You really need to know your boat. What she can do and how she will react. As was said in such conditions the rounded V bottom and the canoe shaped hull can give you a kinder-drier sea ride than the flat bottom racing sleds with no transom.

While there is a lot of "science" there is also a lot of art involved sailing in heavy weather. Experiencing heavy weather helps to build your skills in handling the boat when she broaches. In heavy weather she will broach. How you react will be the difference in arriving safely or calling the CG and abandoning your boat at sea.

TomY · Apr 2, 2020

Kings Gambit said:
Well, from a fore-reaching trim it should be easy to "get going" again. if you appear to have "over compensated." Sort of re-zero the meter. I just wonder how many folks, two-handed crews, have the boat ready for such conditions to come up in maybe only 15-20 min. There's likely going to be some wretched, perhaps violent, motions with stuff below flying about, initially.

I'm not sure this helps but last time I was hove to for a few hours was out on the Gulf of Maine with just my daughter and I on an overnight to Cape Cod from Penobscot Bay.

I had anticipated that we may need to, so we were running downwind under deeply reefed main alone as we had furled the roller furling jib and dropped the mizzen when our boat speed became to much due to gusts in the high 30's. Had we had more crew, we might have been running under a small piece of headsail. But we became exhausted after covering 80 nm in 10 hours. The down wind steering on the seas that the following winds had built was tough work.

The worst part I was anticipating (sort of what you're saying), was the moment I had to bring the bow 180 degrees between the rollers traveling with us.

I was thankful that my daughter could be inside the companionway, next to the mainsheet winch mounted on the house, and do the work of pulling in yards and yards of mainsheet. I heard that winch scream like it never had before as I, behind the wheel, spun it for all I was worth.

It happened faster than I expected and we were hove to in a matter of seconds.

If it helps, we didn't travel more than than 6-8 nm (DDW) while dozing below for 3 hours. At some points I noticed (on the GPS below) the boat did a little fore reaching as well but I could adjust the wheel to stay hove to. The important thing was the bow was into the waves enough to keep it quartering over the crests.

Those three hours of rest saved us and also allowed the blow to calm down. Going from hove to (or fore-reaching) to falling off is easy then because you've got the deep reef. Fall off on the same tack and let out a little foresail and you're on your way.