3M 5200 Adhesive

[Murray16764]

To all, I have been doing some boat repairs at home over the winter and I used some 3M 5200 to glue down some teak to fiberglass three days ago. The 3M 5200 is still very tacky and at this rate will take weeks to dry. I have used this stuff before and have not experienced with problem. The house is warm, so I thought it would not be a problem. The 5200 is about two years old, but was well sealed in the tube. How can I speed up the cure process - it will be a messy job removing it and doing it again. Any advice?

Murray

 

[Tim R.]

That should have cured more than that by now. I would call 3M's tech support to see what they say.

 

[Roger Long]

All boat owners should be required to get a note from their mother before being allowed to purchase 5200.

 

[Maine Sail]

All boat owners should be required to get a note from their mother before being allowed to purchase 5200.

Amen!! Death paste should be banned!!

In all seriousness 5200 is a moisture cure product and in low humidity it can take a long, long time to cure. Toronto, in the winter, indoors with the heat on is not the highest humidity environment.. In the future you might consider something less permanent.

 

[Bob V]

Cure time for 5200

is listed on the label as 7 days and that would be under good conditions. It is a great product if used according to directions and of course if you never want to remove it. When using it to glue down teak to fiberglass the materials should be left clamped for 7 days for a permanent bond. The excess material that squeezes out at the edges can be peeled off easily if it is allowed to completely cure.

They also make a fast cure version. Which one are you using?

 

[Warren Milberg]

I agree with Bob V, above. I had a similar experience with 3M5200 a few years ago when using it at home over the winter. I, too, wondered why the stuff never seemed to cure. It eventually did cure (2+weeks), and my guess is that yours will too. Give it time. Use the fast cure stuff next time.

 

[rockp2]

Please expand?

All boat owners should be required to get a note from their mother before being allowed to purchase 5200.

Roger & Maine Sail,
Would you please expand on your comments on 3M 5200? As you can see from my profile, I am very cherry. But with research I have been doing 5200 was mentioned as a proper marine sealant. I have been lurking around here quite a bit and am obviously humbled by your guys depth of knowledge. Would you please toss a bit of that my why and school me on why I wouldn't want to use "death paste" and what I would want to use intsead?

Thanks much! -Herv

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

5200 has it's place and should be thought of as a permanent bonding material rather than as a sealant. the most common example of a good place to use it is the keel joint although there are probably better materials for that use too.

If you want a semi-permanent bond WITH some elasticity which will not crack when stressed, most of the polysulfides are a better choice, e.g., Lifecaulk.

To get a thorough and concise view of which sealant/adhesive to use where, check out the West Marine Advisor which has probably the best write-up I've read (as well as lots of other info for the novice).

An excerpt from the West Advisor:
Comparing Compounds
Polyurethane: Recommended for permanent bonding because of its enormous adhesive strength. It is good for hull/deck joints and bonding thru-hull fittings but incompatible with ABS and Lexan. Do not use PU-based sealants if the bonded items might have to be separated in the future.
Silicone: Versatile, quick and easy to use, elastic and highly resistant to chemicals, silicone is excellent for isolating dissimilar metals. It is not as strong in adhesive strength as polysulfide or polyurethane but is compatible with plastics.
Polysulfides: Perhaps the most versatile sealants available are polysulfides. Two-part polysulfides have long been popular as caulking material for teak decks. One-part polysulfides are easier to use, just as durable, but slower to cure. Both bond well to most surfaces but oily woods (such as teak) should be primed. We don’t recommend polysulfides for bonding plastic, as they will melt it.
Polyether: It is one of the most exposure resistant sealants, unaffected by teak oils or cleaners, permanently flexible, and sandable. West Marine Multicaulk or 3M's 4000UV is an excellent choice for wood, metal, or fiberglass but will attack some plastics.

 

[rockp2]

Thank you

5200 has it's place and should be thought of as a permanent bonding material rather than as a sealant. the most common example of a good place to use it is the keel joint although there are probably better materials for that use too.

If you want a semi-permanent bond WITH some elasticity which will not crack when stressed, most of the polysulfides are a better choice, e.g., Lifecaulk.

To get a thorough and concise view of which sealant/adhesive to use where, check out the West Marine Advisor which has probably the best write-up I've read (as well as lots of other info for the novice).

Aw, I did use an incorrect description. I should have said 5200 as an adhesive, not a sealant. I knew better than that, just got sloppy with my words. It is good to know that I did do right in purchasing LifeCaulk for sealing purposes. I hadn't purchased 5200 for bonding yet, though I admit I had intended to. Thank you very much for the resource!

 

[Bob V]

It sounds like Murry used the right stuff

for his application. He did not say if he clamped it in place or not, I would guess he did not or he would not know if it was tacky. I think the slow cure is superior if you are not in a hurry. He did mention that he is doing it indoors so that is a good thing. I would just suggest clamps and patience.

If you did not get a good bond and the pieces come apart you can wait until all of the tackiness is gone and just peel it off, then clean the surfaces and start over.

I used 5200 about 5 years ago to glue up copper counter tops for my house. I spread the adhesive with a notched trowel and put on enough to get sqeeze out all along the edges and seams. I also used blue tape so the squeeze out would be on tape not copper. After it was all layed out and taped together at the seams I covered it with plywood and lumber to spread out the weight of 5 gallon buckets full of water placed over the countertops. I left it all in plalce for ten days much to my wifes dismay but when I uncovered it I was amazed at how tight evverything was. There is no way those edges are coming up. I have wood to copper and copper to copper joints and everything is tight and secure. I love 5200 as an adhesive but I follow all the directions and use it only for the intended purpose.

 

[Murray16764]

Thank You

Thanks everyone for the advise. I'll increase the humidity in the room, that will help and stop checking it every three hours. I would agree, that fast cure product might be better for this during the winter months. In summary, it should cure, but very slowy. It's a good thing it is not sailing season here. It does not concern that 5200 is considered permanent - if it is that's great - I don't have to fix it again. If not, I'll grind it out and start again.

Murray

 

[dvideohd]

on the edges...

Bob...

On the squeeze out areas.....

Where 5200 would squeeze out over tape instead of on the exposed copper.... Did you have any problem getting the tape off? did you have to "clear" the seams - of excessive 5200 leaking through?

Would anyone think PVA be useful to put done on the "excess" surface before putting the tape down? (to make easier to get errant drops off...?) or even waxing - to do the same thing...

I ask - as I am looking at working on the deck/hull joint on a Mac26. I want to keep the 5200 from "accidentally" smearing on the fiberglass while I am tightening up the bolts. I know it takes a while to cure.. but I can just see me missing a spot or 10... and then going "uh-oh..."...

--jerry

BTW... Big Kudos on the copper counter top idea... the UK health system did a study on anti bacterial surfaces- and found that copper surfaces performed extremely well - as compared to any other metal or anti-microbial surface...

Hospitals are most proud of the their stainless steel surfaces.. but copper and silver surfaces are enormously more anti-bacterial. Kind of makes sense with what we know about bottom coating...

 

[ChuckThomas]

What do you recommend for port windows? I can't remember what I used three years ago but the window I replaced has started to leak again. I have been told that using bleach in the water that I use for deck washing (dont ask me - ask the admiral) is harmfull to caulk. Is this true?

 

[Maine Sail]

What do you recommend for port windows? I can't remember what I used three years ago but the window I replaced has started to leak again. I have been told that using bleach in the water that I use for deck washing (dont ask me - ask the admiral) is harmfull to caulk. Is this true?

If they are the Beckson plastic ports, which I'm guessing they are on an H-33, Beckson recommends silicone. Unfortunately silicone is nearly impossible to ever get rid of and even silicone does not bond well to an area where old silicone had been. If the ports were originally bedded with silicone this could have been the cause of your failure... It is not generally advised to use polysulfides on certain plastics as it can leach the plasticizers out of the plastic prematurely and cause it to become brittle....

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

What do you recommend for port windows? I can't remember what I used three years ago but the window I replaced has started to leak again. I have been told that using bleach in the water that I use for deck washing (dont ask me - ask the admiral) is harmfull to caulk. Is this true?

Dow Corning 795...
is a structural silicone used to bed windows in commercial buildings. Bonus: it's really inexpensive and comes in several colours. You should be able to find it an an industrial building supplier.

Silicone, to my knowledge, is the only sealant that's compatible with acrylic.

If you decide to go with the Sika 295, be sure to use the primer as it won't stick without it. Don't ask me how I know. It's also very stiff to work with.

 

[Bob V]

Bob...

On the squeeze out areas.....

Where 5200 would squeeze out over tape instead of on the exposed copper.... Did you have any problem getting the tape off? did you have to "clear" the seams - of excessive 5200 leaking through?

--jerry

BTW... Big Kudos on the copper counter top idea... the UK health system did a study on anti bacterial surfaces- and found that copper surfaces performed extremely well - as compared to any other metal or anti-microbial surface...

Hospitals are most proud of the their stainless steel surfaces.. but copper and silver surfaces are enormously more anti-bacterial. Kind of makes sense with what we know about bottom coating...

The squeeze out went over the tape in all areas except the backsplash. On the butt joints of the flat stock I used brown paper bags over the top of the copper so that the clamp wood would not bond to the copper. The brown paper stuck to the blue tape at the joints and peeled off the copper easily. When I applied the backspash pieces I had no way to place the tape in the exact position needed so I left a large gap. After about 10 days of curing, I just rolled off the excess with my fingers along the bottom edge where it came out. It did not discolor the copper at all, just pulled right off easily. I never have tried cleaning it off of fiberglass so I would definitly recommend a test on some fiberglass where it won't show.

I attached a photo of a butt joint 45 degree corner. The edge piece is a L-shape with the flat sheet copper held back about 1/16 " from the edge. This had to be cut before gluing up the countertop, no edge trimming like you do with formica. That's why contact cement was not an option.

 

[Murray16764]

Dow Corning 795...
is a structural silicone used to bed windows in commercial buildings. Bonus: it's really inexpensive and comes in several colours. You should be able to find it an an industrial building supplier.

Silicone, to my knowledge, is the only sealant that's compatible with acrylic.

If you decide to go with the Sika 295, be sure to use the primer as it won't stick without it. Don't ask me how I know. It's also very stiff to work with.

Hey, Don I would like to try that on one of my fixed port lights. I tried to fix it last year with GE Silicone, but I kind of messed up the bead and it soon developed a leak. Products like 5200 are not recommended as it will degrade the plexiglass. But the silicone is not that easy to work with and I guess I should use the primer as you suggested. I was also thinking about using Gorilla Glue on it, but it is polyurathane - same familiy as 5200. I have a e-mail into them on the topic. The Gorilla Glue is good for other things, but you have to keep in mind that it expands by 3 or 4 times - a good feature for filling spaces and bonding. It is tempting. Murray

 

[Stu Jackson]

I agree with Roger & Maine Sail

The ONLY place 5200 should be used on a boat is the hull to deck joint.

 

[Roger Long]

The ONLY place 5200 should be used on a boat is the hull to deck joint.

I have used it a couple of places though. One was the backing block for a flush Knotlog thru hull. Without much shoulder on the outside, I wanted to be sure the block was really attached. According to the rated adhesive strength, I could lift the boat with the backing block. The thru hull itself, I did with something less tenacious.

I also bedded my dorade vent boxes with it. They are located where they could turn into foot rests during a knockdown while doing tasks at the mast so I decided that pain if I ever wanted to remove them was worth making sure they were really attached.

EVERY damn thing on my boat that the PO did was put together with the stuff and taking anything apart is a struggle.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Mother mining is just down the road from me. If you want 5200 to cure quicker, try using 5200 Fast Cure. But, remember it is an adhesive and should only be applied when you NEVER want to remove it or the fittings, etc. that you are securing.